[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks @ Toronto Maple Laffs | February 8, 2021 | 4 p.m. PT | TVAS, SNP

[-Vintage Canuck-]

Just now, Junkyard Dog said:

I don't expect OJ to make much of a difference in the teams play overall.

 

Still nice to see him get back back in though.

With Juolevi in, I expect Schmidt to shift to the right side.

 

Edler - Schmidt

Hughes - Benn

Juolevi - Myers

[EmilyM]

Just now, -Vintage Canuck- said:

With Juolevi in, I expect Schmidt to shift to the right side.

 

Edler - Schmidt

Hughes - Benn

Juolevi - Myers

Of all the options we have, this seems like the pairings I'd like to see.

[Smashian Kassian]

56 minutes ago, gurn said:

What else would he say?

Any other statement would result in him getting ripped, by almost everyone.

 

Theres ways to dance around the question while still maintaining confidence in your organization.

 

Jim's a pretty honest guy, I think he really thought that, hence saying it with conviction. And I agree w/ him that this year shouldn't have been viewed as that, initially. 

 

 

52 minutes ago, aGENT said:

By that point we had already moved ahead of schedule with Boeser, Pettersson and Hughes arrival.

 

Besides, I'm from the school of thought that you ALWAYS look to improve your team in any way possible. A protected first and spare parts for a versatile top 6 F with the exact ingredients we were missing, was and continues to be a no brainer.

 

No one is arguing with the Miller trade now. I just think making that move - along with adding Myers - raised expectations, not unrealistic/impatient fans. 

 

I agree on always looking to improve your team, that's where I emphasize with this management group, but it's also gotta be with the bigger picture in mind when your a rebuilding organization - just in general.

 

 

Edited February 8, 2021 by Smashian Kassian

[oldnews]

55 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

He had an excellent year last year and flew under the radar, and his contract was pretty justified all things considered. I'd be interested to see those stats this year, I'd bet they take a gigantic dip.

another failed assumption - but it's not difficult to look at a player's outcomes if you bother.

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/e/edleral01.html

 

 

4 pts, 14 games (missed with an injury).

An absurdly low 30.6% ozone starts (only his rookie shutdown partner, Chatfield is in that range).

48.2% corsi is outstanding in that context.

Actually has even better 'underlying' / 'possession' numbers this season, in the context of a radically struggling group.

21 hits (leads the blueline), 19 blocks

And of course, as usual, leads the blueline in penalty killing minutes.

 

And the 'had an excellent year last year' is actually a really weak qualifier.  He's had an excellent career, period.

 

Two years ago - exactly the same kind of outcomes as last year.

 

34 pts in 56 games, lead the blueline,  +3

166 blocks (lead the team the last four years), 127 hits (2nd to Gudbranson).

41.1% ozone starts, 47.4 corsi, 2.8 on ice goals for 2.6 against, in hard minutes.

2nd to Tanev in pk minutes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2021 by oldnews

[oldnews]

3 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

With Juolevi in, I expect Schmidt to shift to the right side.

 

Edler - Schmidt

Hughes - Benn

Juolevi - Myers

5 LHD might be a bit challenging, but it's nice to see Juolevi back in the lineup.  If they weren't so bloody young it would also be nice to see Chatfield remain in, and Benn, out - but two rookies and a 21 yr old is a bit much.

[PhillipBlunt]

Glad to see Chatfield sitting.

[nuck-lifer]

Would be nice to see some light on Hamonics upper body injury as we can spare a number of lefties but having only 2 legit NHL'r RD makes it tough

[EmilyM]

2 minutes ago, oldnews said:

5 LHD might be a bit challenging, but it's nice to see Juolevi back in the lineup.  If they weren't so bloody young it would also be nice to see Chatfield remain in, and Benn, out - but two rookies and a 21 yr old is a bit much.

Would you swap Chatfield with Benn sraight up with these pairings (Hughes/Chatfield)?
I think Juolevi has to be with Myers. Schmidt seems a little too shaky in the D zone to play with Olli, Chatfieild/Olli could be disaster.
If we swap Benn for Chatfield, I think we get:
Edler - Chatfield
Hughes - Schmidt
Juolevi - Myers

I don't like that any better at all.

 

[Mackcanuck]

We could also completely turn this around with a win tonight and come home to sweep 4 from CGY, 2 from WPG and then 2 from EDM to finish off the month!

[PhillipBlunt]

3 minutes ago, Mackcanuck said:

We could also completely turn this around with a win tonight and come home to sweep 4 from CGY, 2 from WPG and then 2 from EDM to finish off the month!

Tall order. Who knows. 

[higgyfan]

3 hours ago, Wayne Glensky said:

It’s not being impatient. Fans want to watch competitive hockey. We haven’t been good since 2011. 10 years too long my friend. 

I just named 10 rebuilding teams that have gone at least 10 years struggling.  Some teams' fans went 17 and 22 years of horrid hockey.

 

The Canucks were very competitive in the playoffs last season.  This season is an anomaly.  They will be better more competitive next season; especially if they end up with a top 5 pick in the draft.

[Junkyard Dog]

9 minutes ago, EmilyM said:

Would you swap Chatfield with Benn sraight up with these pairings (Hughes/Chatfield)?
I think Juolevi has to be with Myers. Schmidt seems a little too shaky in the D zone to play with Olli, Chatfieild/Olli could be disaster.
If we swap Benn for Chatfield, I think we get:
Edler - Chatfield
Hughes - Schmidt
Juolevi - Myers

I don't like that any better at all.

 

Too young.

 

Have to wait till Hamonic is back then we could insert him in for Benn if we want a right handed D with OJ in the lineup.

[appleboy]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

We'll when you add them to Schmidt, Myers, Tryamkin, (Edler for now) it's solid D (even if they, along with the rest of the team, aren't presently playing like it).

 

None of them need to come in and set the world on fire. And Juolevi and Rathbone both easily have top 4 upside. Woo likely bottom pair but possibly 2nd.

 

Plus I'd imagine we'll be looking to trade for a guy another team can't protect for the ED as well as possible adding another high draft D this coming draft.

 

Sorry, but that's a very solid base. I also think you're vastly oversimplifying the cap. How much was SJS paying? Nashville? 

Wow! Do you really want to use Eric Karlsson's contract as a good example of how to build a solid defense?  That contract is a prime example of what you should never ever do. That will screw them for the next 7 years.

 

What I am trying to get across is that teams need to set a salary structure.   So much for your forwards, so much for defense and the rest for goal tending. If you dump 30 mil on your D then something else has to suffer. Successful teams do this really well.  Vegas wanted to sign Pietrangelo so they moved Schmidt out to make room. They stayed with in a structure. They could do that because they have Hague and Holden coming up through the system. In todays cap world you cannot build a winner through the UFA market. You always pay a bit of a premium and in Jim's case you end up giving out to much term.  UFA's have their place in team construction. It needs to be limited. Plus done for the right reason. The last piece that helps you go for the cup. All in at that point.

 

OJ has not shown much yet. He has issues with gap control and mobility. I thought Chatfield has looked better defensively. Neither are really trusted by the coaching staff. Time will tell. Remember when Tanev came in? There was no question that he was going to be a solid NHL player. Who is our youthful Tanev?

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

No one is arguing with the Miller trade now. I just think making that move - along with adding Myers - raised expectations, not unrealistic/impatient fans. 

 

I agree on always looking to improve your team, that's where I emphasize with this management group, but it's also gotta be with the bigger picture in mind when your a rebuilding organization - just in general.

 

 

They shouldn't have been when it was made either. Improve by any means (yes, in context of a bigger rebuild picture).

 

I don't think Miller particularly raised expectations anyway. It would seem the majority thought we overpaid assets for a middling, middle 6 player.

 

Same (incorrectly) goes for Myers. People (incorrectly) seem to assess that first pair, UFA aged D make $6m (they make closer to $8m-$12m in reality). So now Myers isn't living up to his 'first pair'  contract according to these same, vocal experts...

 

Those don't sound like 'raised expectations' reactions (as much as they should have been) 

 

I think Hughes and Pettersson raised expectations and Benning continued to improve the team by any means available with adding those guys. 

 

And really, by all means expectations should be raised given our personnel (on paper) and the ability those young players have shown (ahead of schedule). I personally expected a better season than we're having given our (IMO) improved D and progression of our young, core players, adding Hoglander etc.

 

I'm not trying to suggest everything is hunky dory or that we're playing well either. For numerous reasons we're having a $&!# season thus far.

 

That said, I'm also not surprised that a rebuilding team is struggling to maintain early success was numerous other rebuilding teams have done before them. 

 

That doesn't make those improving moves wrong. It doesn't mean we should trade Hughes or fire Green/Benning. It means a good young team is having a tough start in a weird year. That about it.

 

 

[oldnews]

3 minutes ago, EmilyM said:

Would you swap Chatfield with Benn sraight up with these pairings (Hughes/Chatfield)?
I think Juolevi has to be with Myers. Schmidt seems a little too shaky in the D zone to play with Olli, Chatfieild/Olli could be disaster.
If we swap Benn for Chatfield, I think we get:
Edler - Chatfield
Hughes - Schmidt
Juolevi - Myers

I don't like that any better at all.

 

I think it's too much imo to have a rookie and a 21 yr old on every pairing - particularly when you're facing teams with a pair of top 6 lines like the Laffs literal draft lottery lines.

 

I think a team needs at least one primary, high end shutdown pairing - right now this team has half of one in the absence of Tanev - and a second pairing that can also handle hard matchups, ideally a 'two-way' pairing...Having a pair of 'foundational' centers helps, but one of those lines (Sutter's) is still a bit shaky on one or both wings - so it's a challenge to keep the team grounded/stable in the present.

 

I wouldn't mind it if the team experimented with groups that young, but at the end of a very challenging road trip where they've been blown out -  I think they should give the team the best chance of winning possible - so stay as veteran as possible -and try to regain some confidence.  All in all last game, score aside, doesn't look bad at all in terms of possession, they just need to simplify and eliminate most of the mental errors (easy to say, but when they're both exhausted and frustrated, maybe not so easy to execute).

[appleboy]

Just now, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

I wondered about Motte. He was hurting in that last game. Finished the game but labored.

[Bo Dega]

What saucery is this ? We can not have positive thoughts like this here, you are ruining the whole concept of this forum.

 

We bitch and moan about how useless everybody is on the team, tough love only.

 

 

 

 

 

 

.....when you don´t know how the quote button works. That thing about winning tonight and upcoming games. 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2021 by Bo Dega

[PhillipBlunt]

3 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

Guy was leading the league in hits, he was eventually going to hit a wall. One of the few who brought it every shift.

[oldnews]

4 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

Losing Motte is all the team needs at this point. FK.