Expansion draft, who are you keeping ?

[Nucker 67]

Myers and Schmidt are good Dmen, you don't just let those guys walk down the road to join our new rivals. Let SEA have Sutter, Beagle, Edler or Holtby.

[kanucks25]

8 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Myers and Schmidt are good Dmen, you don't just let those guys walk down the road to join our new rivals. Let SEA have Sutter, Beagle, Edler or Holtby.

Sutter and Edler are both UFA's and not a chance Seattle takes either Beagle or Holtby based on their production vs. cap-hit.

 

They'll be trying to ice a competitive team, not do us favors.

Edited March 12, 2021 by kanucks25

[mll]

9 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Myers and Schmidt are good Dmen, you don't just let those guys walk down the road to join our new rivals. Let SEA have Sutter, Beagle, Edler or Holtby.

Canucks have to expose one of Myers or Schmidt to meet the exposure requirements.  Don’t see Edler or Hamonic agreeing to an extension to be exposed.  Do the Canucks really want to extend Benn + it will be giving him leverage in the negotiations and if not taken they’ll be stuck with his contract.  Not sure either that they want to give up assets to trade for a D that meets the exposure requirements.

[kanucks25]

2 minutes ago, mll said:

Not sure either that they want to give up assets to trade for a D that meets the exposure requirements.

They should.

 

But to protect and keep said player, not expose him.

[Gurn]

Expose Meyers, he is a couple of years older, and Tryamkin is a closer replacement for him as compared to Schmidt.

 

Add in:

Schmidt is  a bit cheaper and plays both sides so more value there.

Edited March 12, 2021 by gurn

[Smashian Kassian]

1 hour ago, kanucks25 said:

Minutes are decided by the coaching staff, who could be incompetent (which is not uncommon here or around the league) and/or has no choice due to the roster he was given.

 

Remember when Sbisa played regular D-man minutes for us for years? It doesn't really mean anything (at least not without context).

 

Sbisa was 10th in EV TOI during his time here. Was very clearly a 3rd pair/PK guy - compared to Myers who plays both special teams units & the most at evens.

 

Hardly a comparable IMO.

 

 

49 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

If we protect Chatfield I will be mad, trade for a D if we dont have a third worth protecting. 

 

Was just going off the list, but I agree. It's a prime opportunity for us to capitalize on.

[Smashian Kassian]

23 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Myers and Schmidt are good Dmen, you don't just let those guys walk down the road to join our new rivals. Let SEA have Sutter, Beagle, Edler or Holtby.

 

Exposing Myers is more about (a) necessity, the only other eligible guy is Schmidt - I think? And (b) an opportunity to get out of the bad years of his deal.

 

No doubt we'd need to find another good defenseman in the event he's taken.

[Gollumpus]

1 hour ago, kanucks25 said:

Myers is not an irreplaceable player, and his cap-hit makes him desirable to move.

I don't necessarily dispute this, but where I do have a concern, or two, is who fills that roster spot in the short term (maybe 3+ years, which is the remaining term on Myers' contract). As I have noted elsewhere, the Canucks are potentially without Myers, Edler, Benn and Hammonic from this season's defense, and Yay! for all those who think that this will be a good thing. The team does not have anyone waiting in the wings to fill these spots. This leaves trades (more assets out the door), or signing UFAs, for how and for how long? See anyone you like, and for how much?

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/browse/free-agents/2022/age/all/defense

 

1 hour ago, kanucks25 said:

Myers' spot should be ideally filled by a prospect (or a Stetcher type player) so that he comes cheap, so that the cap can be better allocated to the top of the lineup. Maybe that player won't be as good as Myers, but you live it because ideally you have great top-4 ahead of him and he's playing a limited role anyway.

Sure, Myers' spot could/should be filled by a prospect (or a Stetcher type player), but it sounds like you are talking as though that great top-4 is already in place, which it is not, and it will not be for at least another 3 - 5 years assuming growth through the draft, or from spending in the UFA market, or via trades.

 

1 hour ago, kanucks25 said:

If you have the cap/luxury of having a 6M player on your third line, fine, that's great depth. But we don't, not with so many other also undesirable contracts on the books and our core young players needing big raises. 

 

Some people (more importantly our GM) need to get away from the thought-process of: "decent player? have cap? get/keep player." It's such short-term and shallow planning.

Not disputing the cap situation. People around here are already complaining that the defense isn't good enough. Do the Canucks currently have anyone on the roster who is as good, or better than Myers (other than Schmidt), or that the team wants to develop (Hughes, Juolevi)? Anyone down on the farm hasn't (as yet) shown that they can cut it in NHL - yes, it's all Green's fault. Having Myers' contract on the books is a limiting factor, but unless he can be replaced by someone who is as good (or better), then I view him (or rather his cap hit) as a necessary evil.

 

                                               regards,  G.

[Elias Pettersson]

8 hours ago, Gollumpus said:

Yeah he'll be what, 100 years old when his current contract is done? 

 

Assuming Juolevi and Hughes continue to progress, they will be the likely candidates for left D playing ahead of Myers. Depending on where the Canucks finish this season (making the most of a bad thing here) maybe they get one of those pretty decent d-man prospects from this draft. Until that time, I'd be okay with having Myers in the bottom pairing being able to move up as needed. If Myers does leave before his contract expires (in 3 years), then I'd want it to be via trade.

 

Purely from a cap perspective, sure moving Myers out might be useful. Who takes his spot on the roster when he is gone? Who is a better d-man on this team who is currently not playing regularly? As the answer is "nobody", I'm assuming that a number of folks will assume that some UFA can be signed with a portion of the money currently being paid to Myers. And what about Edler, and what about Benn, and what about Hammonic, who will all be UFAs at the end of the season? This will leave the Canucks with Schmidt(L/R), Hughes(L), Juolevi(L) and......?

 

                                          regards,  G.

David Savard is a better Dman than Myers. He’s a UFA in the summer so if the Canucks lose Myers they can reinvest some of that $6 million into Savard, who can partner Hughes and play 20+ minutes a night. And then they can either bring back Hamonic or trade Virtanen or Gaudette for a decent 3rd pairing Dman. 
 

If Benning can somehow convince Loui to retire we can then go after Adam Lowry in free agency as our new 3C. Adding Lowry and Savard will greatly upgrade our roster at two key positions where we are weak. 
 

If Benning can acquire a good partner for Hughes and a legit tough as nails 3C this summer, this team automatically becomes a legit playoff team next year. 
 

EDIT:  Adam Larsson is another UFA Benning can target to play with Hughes. He’s 2 years younger than Savard and is Swedish. I’d be happy with either player. 

Edited March 12, 2021 by Elias Pettersson

[Bure_Pavel]

Lightning, Flyers, and Wild are teams I would be talking to about maybe shedding a RD before expansion.  

 

Philippe Myers, Dumba, and Cal Foote are all unlikely to get protected.

Edited March 12, 2021 by Bure_Pavel

[Gollumpus]

2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

David Savard is a better Dman than Myers. He’s a UFA in the summer so if the Canucks lose Myers they can reinvest that $6 million into Savard, who can partner Hughes and play 20+ minutes a night. And then they can either bring back Hamonic or trade Virtanen or Gaudette for a decent 3rd pairing Dman. 
 

If Benning can somehow convince Loui to retire we can then go after Adam Lowry in free agency as our new 3C. Adding Lowry and Savard will greatly upgrade our roster at two key positions where we are weak. 
 

If Benning can acquire a good partner for Hughes and a legit tough as nails 3C this summer, this team automatically becomes a legit playoff team next year. 

Sounds like a plan, assuming he wants to come here, and there isn't a bidding war for his services etc. 

 

I believe, "Git 'er done, Jim", is the usual end comment? 

 

                                     regards,  G.

[Elias Pettersson]

2 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Lightning, Flyers, and Wild are teams I would be talking to about maybe shedding a RD before expansion. 

Erik Cernak is the dream. Tampa will be millions over the Cap. If Seattle takes Myers we can probably help them with their cap issues. 

[kanucks25]

22 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

Sbisa was 10th in EV TOI during his time here. Was very clearly a 3rd pair/PK guy - compared to Myers who plays both special teams units & the most at evens.

 

Hardly a comparable IMO.

Sbisa played almost 19 minutes per game over the 3 years he was here.

 

My point is not that Sbisa and Myers are equal players but instead that just because a player plays a lot, it doesn't necessarily mean he's good or should be playing that much.

 

In other words, "Myers plays a lot" isn't enough of a reason to justify this cap-hit.

Edited March 12, 2021 by kanucks25

[Bure_Pavel]

2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Erik Cernak is the dream. Tampa will be millions over the Cap. If Seattle takes Myers we can probably help them with their cap issues. 

I would settle for Cal Foote as well. 

[Elias Pettersson]

3 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

I would settle for Cal Foote as well. 

Cal Foote is a good consolation prize. But he’s on a cap friendly deal so moving him wouldn’t really help Tampa with their cap issues. 
 

If Myers gets taken in the ED and we can somehow get rid of Loui then we can trade Gaudette to Tampa who is still on a cheap deal. In return they can give us Cernak plus a cap dump like Johnson. That would free up $8 million for Tampa who can then add Kucherov back onto the roster for next year. Right now he’s on LTIR which is allowing Tampa to be cap compliant. 

[kanucks25]

30 minutes ago, Gollumpus said:

I don't necessarily dispute this, but where I do have a concern, or two, is who fills that roster spot in the short term (maybe 3+ years, which is the remaining term on Myers' contract). As I have noted elsewhere, the Canucks are potentially without Myers, Edler, Benn and Hammonic from this season's defense, and Yay! for all those who think that this will be a good thing. The team does not have anyone waiting in the wings to fill these spots. This leaves trades (more assets out the door), or signing UFAs, for how and for how long? See anyone you like, and for how much?

 

Sure, Myers' spot could/should be filled by a prospect (or a Stetcher type player), but it sounds like you are talking as though that great top-4 is already in place, which it is not, and it will not be for at least another 3 - 5 years assuming growth through the draft, or from spending in the UFA market, or via trades.

 

Not disputing the cap situation. People around here are already complaining that the defense isn't good enough. Do the Canucks currently have anyone on the roster who is as good, or better than Myers (other than Schmidt), or that the team wants to develop (Hughes, Juolevi)? Anyone down on the farm hasn't (as yet) shown that they can cut it in NHL - yes, it's all Green's fault. Having Myers' contract on the books is a limiting factor, but unless he can be replaced by someone who is as good (or better), then I view him (or rather his cap hit) as a necessary evil.

 

I understand that our D is already not great and there's not much coming (unless someone like Rathbone or Woo really makes a jump) but cap space / flexibility / opportunity cost is important, too, which IMO this management team has absolutely no idea about.

 

So the question is, is that 6M better served as open space that we can do whatever we want with whenever we want? or should it be tied up in Myers because quality D-men are hard to find, especially for our current GM?

 

But there are two important factors to consider:

1) The expansion draft and how some teams are in a pickle with how they must expose/trade away a quality D-man - we should be taking advantage of this.

2) We're likely not going to be any good next season, either, just because of how the cap works out. That means, if Seattle takes Myers, we have roughly a full calendar year to play with that 6M and figure out what we're going to do to replace Myers for 2022.

 

Remember that because of open space, we were able to gobble up a quality player in Schmidt for basically free. Now it wasn't necessary "open space" because it meant we lost Tanev, but in the future with better planning and cap management, I'm hoping we can weaponize cap space in a similar way without losing assets at the same time as some of us have been clamouring for for about, well, 7 years.

Edited March 12, 2021 by kanucks25

[Beary Sweet]

I would protect

Horvat, Miller, Boeser, Pettersson, Virtanen, Motte, and Lind for forwards

Juolevi, Schmidt, and Myers for D

Demko for goalie

[Amebushi]

I think this is a bit of a loaded question. What the decision boils down to is currently Schmidt vs Myers as they are the only two on the roster that meet the requirements for an unprotected defenceman. If that’s the case, then Myers is left for Seattle. Will they take him?  Probably, I would certainly pick him over Holtby or whatever is left of our forward corps. The real question is can we make something happen to improve our team another way. 
 

I like Myers and what he brings to the team, but feel at 6 mil per season it won’t be that difficult to replace. Hughes, Schmidt and Juolevi fill 2-3 of our left side D (Schmidt can play both sides.). Is there a fit somewhere for picking up a righty from a team against it with too many NMC?  Can we make a trade for someone that doesn’t need protecting so we can keep Myers?  Is Tryamkin coming back?  So many questions between now and expansion draft. We will lose a player, but I feel the need to include that we will lose a contract. If there is a move to be made that gives better choices you have to take it, but some teams will lose much more than Myers at 6 million. I am more concerned about Motte than him. Given our lack of depth at D I hope they figure something out, but Myers is not the right fit for our current set up moving forward at that price. 

[mll]

Just now, Bure_Pavel said:

Lightning, Flyers, and Wild are teams I would be talking to about maybe shedding a RD before expansion. 

 

Dumba is an ill fit for Vancouver.  Dumba does well in Minnesota because he has Brodin or Suter that can cover for him.  Myers, Hughes, Schmidt could all use a Tanev equivalent and Dumba himself needs a Tanev.  If they decide to protect only 3 Ds rather than 4, would expect Minnesota to just prefer exposing him unless the return is significant.  It’s just not worth risking their D-corps for next season.  Trade Dumba, Soucy gets taken and they no longer have a top-4.  Expose both and they will at least have a top-4 for next season.

 

Flyers themselves are looking for a RD with the Niskanen retirement.  Myers, Sanheim and Provorov are untouchable.

 

McKenzie listed Tampa’s untouchable in the off-season - Vasy, Kucherov, Point, Hedman + Sergachev, Cirelli and Cernak.  They’ve looked into trading the others to clear cap space.  Expansion might allow them to clear cap space.  They can protect their untouchables and still have a spot open to protect Foote.  Can’t see Seattle taking McDonagh.  He turns 32 in June and will still have 5 years left at 6.75M.

 

[canuktravella]

14 hours ago, AriGold said:

I think in the end Seattle ends up with Myers and it might be the best solution for us.

ya frees up 6 mill  see ya giraffe  rather have tryamkin at 3.5 for 3