[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks vs Edmonton Oilers l May 4, 7 p.m. l SNP | RINSE&REPEAT EDITION

[VegasCanuck]

29 minutes ago, Duodenum said:

McDavid has 39 points in 27 career games vs the Canucks. Doesn't look like we've had much luck stopping him over his career vs the Canucks so far?

 

But yea, they'll do better than the collection of garbage currently in the lineup. 

Not since Dorsett left. He seemed to be able to get McDavid off his game.

 

All things being equal, if Jake was better defensively (and not likely leaving the team), his speed would have been a good match up, but he doesn't bring enough attitude to the ice. The video below, that's the Jake Virtanen that we needed for the last 3 seasons.

 

 

[oldnews]

17 minutes ago, khay said:

Agree. The bottom 6 guys do a good job of keeping the opponent's best players in check in general. Other team's spare parts (Boyd, Vesey, etc) clearly don't eat up the tough minutes very well like Beagle, Motte, etc.

 

And we will need to replace two centers Sutter (UFA) and Beagle(likely LTIR) for next season. That will be a tough task.

 

Although I'm also not worried about the games like last night or even previous games against Toronto and Sens, the concerning thing is that the team has always been outshot and out-chanced even with full lineup.

 

As serviceable as they have been, if we can upgrade on some of these "foundational" players, we should upgrade.

 

I don't think there's much chance of 'upgrading' in the FA market.   Which means going to the trade market.  Which is why I'd probably bring back as much of that foundation as possible - because this team is still at a stage of integrating a whole lot of youth - and needing veterans that can eat hard minutes.

 

In time they'll probably be able to 'transition' to a somewhat different look in the bottom six - as the group matures - perhaps moving towards a 3rd line that is less hard minutes and more secondary scoring/two way oriented. 

 

But that timeline imo was set back - which I agree with - in large part because of the bottleneck the build faced last summer.  It was faced with dual circumstances that dictated imo - first was Demko or Markstrom (Demko and Markstrom / the tandem wasn't really an option moving forward with the expansion draft looming).  I think the right decision was made but it was a domino one to a certain extent.  Imo that realligned the team's trajectory along Demko's lines - and in line with the timelines of their emerging young core - who are still well away from their 'primes'.  As much as it hurt to lose Marky, Toffoli and Tanev - the reality of the e.d. and the covid cap stall overlapped with some bad timing for this team's shorter term results.  A whole lot depended on this team's health this year - and needless to say - things couldn't have gone much more wrong.

 

I thought Tanev 'should' have been the priority - for reasons I've stated repeatedly - first being the importance of a 'foundational' partner for Hughes - the second being his principal importance in dealing with players like McMe1st etc - extremely difficult to 'replace' is top end effectiveness in limiting players like that.  As much as I love Toffoli's game - the reality was that he came at the position of most youth wealth imo - he's not the only RW casualty - the team also really had nowhere to play Gaudette.  If the team retained Toffoli, it meant a bottleneck of youth RW (Boeser, Hoglander, Podkolzin...)  I can see why they took the loss in that case and looked towards a trajectory a few years down the line (a more cost effective one as well - that depends on the development/emergence of youth - which, really, will be this team's bread and butter if it hopes to contend in the future...).  I'd prefer to take our chances on what Hoglander becomes as opposed to prioritize shorter term results with Toffoli.  But that's the long game, and most people are more obsessed with the immediate fishbowl.

 

Regardless, basically - I'd 'expect' that a few more years of transition 'foundation' is in order - and personally I'm in favour of a hard to play against / hard to score against bottom six - as opposed to track meet teams that look for secondary scoring = I don't think this team is there yet, and running and gunning with some teams is not a good idea - at least not yet....

[Jack Fig]

Just now, rychicken said:

liberation - does that make you a libertarian?

Yeah, pretty much.

Et tu, Brutus?

[oldnews]

36 minutes ago, Duodenum said:

McDavid has 39 points in 27 career games vs the Canucks. Doesn't look like we've had much luck stopping him over his career vs the Canucks so far?

 

But yea, they'll do better than the collection of garbage currently in the lineup. 

woosh. 

you've answered a point about specific/particular context with a generalization/averaging point - that has zero relevance to the point you avoided.

 

just a tiny difference - like the difference between a 1 pt game - and a 4 pt game - ie that wouldn't make any difference in results - would it.

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by oldnews

[VegasCanuck]

1 minute ago, wallstreetamigo said:

He will likely extend Sutter. And on the right contract thats fine by me. But nothing in his MO suggests he will ask Sutter to sign for 1 year at 1.75. Probably 3 years at 3 mil at the absolute lowest. I expect 2 years, 4 mil per for Edler at the lowest. Both with trade protection too.

 

I really hope I am wrong.

I wouldn't be adverse to having Sutter signed for more than 1 year at a rate lower than 1.75. There will be deals out there this summer. As long as we didn't have to give Sutter a NTC, or nothing more than a limited NTC, like 8 teams that he can refuse trade to, I wouldn't mind him even at 1.5 million per for 2 seasons or 1.25 million per for 3.

 

He was derailed in Vancouver by Injuries. This season and last, have been some of his most effective time in Vancouver. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

9 minutes ago, Jack Fig said:

No, no. I packed it in and started going outside in the sun and doing summer things. Hockey is now an afterthought until the fall. Liberation ... catch it!

My parents have me locked up in the attic.  Is Pierre Trudeau still PM?

[JM_]

it would be nice to see the boys take one from the Edmonton Earth Killers (formerly Oilers). 

[PhillipBlunt]

7 hours ago, Jack Fig said:

No, no. I packed it in and started going outside in the sun and doing summer things. Hockey is now an afterthought until the fall. Liberation ... catch it!

I agree, Fig. I've been walking, doing HIIT treadmill training, and weights. As well, I'm keeping up on my six-string practice. Once I sit down in front of my Marshall, it's amazing how time flies. I give the Canucks some of my time, but know that it's a negligible percentage. My main reason for being on the boards is to fire off the odd joke and lighten the mood whenever possible. And to be a surly realist.

Edited May 5, 2021 by PhillipBlunt

[deus.ex.makina]

4 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

He will likely extend Sutter. And on the right contract thats fine by me. But nothing in his MO suggests he will ask Sutter to sign for 1 year at 1.75. Probably 3 years at 3 mil at the absolute lowest. I expect 2 years, 4 mil per for Edler at the lowest. Both with trade protection too.

 

I really hope I am wrong.

wait what ????
No extra Mil for Tryamkin but 4M for Edler who 4 times out of 5 is completly lost with the speed of today game ? 
 

 

[Jack Fig]

4 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

My parents have me locked up in the attic.  Is Pierre Trudeau still PM?

You don't want to know. 

[Jack Fig]

1 minute ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I agree, Fig. I've been walking, doing IHIT treadmill training, and weights. As well, I'm keeping up on my six-string practice. Once I sit down in front of my Marshall, it's amazing how time flies. I give the Canucks some of my time, but know that it's a negligible percentage. My main reason for being on the boards is to fire off the odd joke and lighten the mood whenever possible. And to be a surly realist.

Live large, Blunt. 

[VegasCanuck]

Rathbone is on the main roster, not on Taxi squad, I'm hoping that means that he'll get a chance to play tonight and show what he can do.

 

[wallstreetamigo]

8 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

I wouldn't be adverse to having Sutter signed for more than 1 year at a rate lower than 1.75. There will be deals out there this summer. As long as we didn't have to give Sutter a NTC, or nothing more than a limited NTC, like 8 teams that he can refuse trade to, I wouldn't mind him even at 1.5 million per for 2 seasons or 1.25 million per for 3.

 

He was derailed in Vancouver by Injuries. This season and last, have been some of his most effective time in Vancouver. 

No more ntc for support players, even limited ones. A limited ntc in the current environment is essentially the same as a full one. There might only be a handful of teams interested in and able to take on a guy like that. Even a 5 team lntc can make a guy untradeable, especially if he is overpaid and has too much term.

[PhillipBlunt]

5 minutes ago, Jack Fig said:

Live large, Blunt. 

Likewise, Fig.

[rychicken]

13 minutes ago, Jack Fig said:

Yeah, pretty much.

Et tu, Brutus?

no, I'm a jerk...

[Jack Fig]

3 minutes ago, rychicken said:

no, I'm a jerk...

[NewbieCanuckFan]

3 minutes ago, rychicken said:

no, I'm a jerk...

Meh, *I* am their all time best seller!

 

 

[oldnews]

This team isn't good enough under this GM!

Correct me if I'm wrong - but wasn't this team the only Canadian franchise to make it to the second round last playoffs?

That was extremely early in the trajectory of this young emerging core.  You don't do that without a solid youth talent and a foundation supporting that youth.

But but this regular season's results are more important?

 

The most evident example of the difference in circumstances - is Hughes - and the significant difference you see between his rookie campaign - with Tanev - and a viable center group - and this season, in Tanev's absence, and a M.A.S.H. group of centers....the second point there was also illustrated in the playoffs - the difference between knocking off the defending champs with healthy Miller, Sutter - and then harm reducing vs Vegas with a limping Miller, Sutter, (and Toffolit) and attempting to hide Gaudette as 3C....neither of which are realistic circumstances to expect to advance vs a team like that.  And yet they adjusted and nearly did (evidence of how stupid Green is, and how unable he is to alter gameplans to circumstances.../s).

 

Context - and temporality - always matter.  I was under the impression that playoff results are what actually underline 'success' - I'm sticking with that - and am not going to fishbowl/abstract what has happened this year out of context.

 

Anyone that expects this group to have made the playoffs under this year's circumstances - are delusional.

 

No team is going anywhere with 3 centers out of their lineup.  No young team was going to find this season's circumstances particularly conducive to success - and no team is going to 'come back' from both their insane schedule to start the season - and then rinse and repeat to end it - after clawing back into the race in the mid portion - only to lose half a lineup to covid (while already missing their most productive young forward) - and face a schedule that no team is going to go on a 'run' in the midst of.   Do I 'blame' Benning for all of it? "Blame is just a lazy person's way of making sense of chaos."

 

So - I set aside expectations of short term results - enjoy watching Lind, Juolevi, Highmore, Rathbone, Gadjovich, etc.

I also welcome the chance to draft another important young piece or two.

 

I have little concern that this team - under normal circumstances - will once again be competitive.  I don't need to fire Green, Benning et al to gamble on replacement managers - the assumption is always that things will be better - but that can always go either way.  I'm fine with this course - most of the people hanging banners behind airplanes - have one-liner 'plans' that don't necessarily hold any more water than the existing one (no, the team doesn't operate without a 'plan' - and at the same time, "man makes plans and God just laughs" = any plan is going to run into the necessity to alter it to - unforseen - circumstances).

Edited May 4, 2021 by oldnews

[Nucker 67]

Miller - Pettersson - Boeser

Hoglander - Horvat - Lind

Motte - XX - Podkolzin

Gadjovich - XX - XX

 

Hughes - XX

Schmidt - Myers

Juolevi - Rathbone

XX

Bowey

 

Slowly getting there

 

[-Vintage Canuck-]

9 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Miller - Pettersson - Boeser

Hoglander - Horvat - Lind

Motte - XX - Podkolzin

Gadjovich - XX - XX

 

Hughes - XX

Schmidt - Myers

Juolevi - Rathbone

XX

Bowey

 

Slowly getting there

 

I don't think there will much change to the defence core next season, but I could see a reasonable change to the forward group, especially to the bottom-six and there will be some decisions to be made there.