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[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks vs Edmonton Oilers l May 4, 7 p.m. l SNP | RINSE&REPEAT EDITION

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44 minutes ago, oldnews said:

woosh. 

you've answered a point about specific/particular context with a generalization/averaging point - that has zero relevance to the point you avoided.

 

just a tiny difference - like the difference between a 1 pt game - and a 4 pt game - ie that wouldn't make any difference in results - would it.

 

So 35 points in 26 games then? Keeping McDavid to a 110 point pace. 7 million for Sutter and Beagle, what a deal. 

 

 

What a point to make lmao. 

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51 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

Not since Dorsett left. He seemed to be able to get McDavid off his game.

 

All things being equal, if Jake was better defensively (and not likely leaving the team), his speed would have been a good match up, but he doesn't bring enough attitude to the ice. The video below, that's the Jake Virtanen that we needed for the last 3 seasons.

 

 

Boy do I miss watching Virtanen hit compilations under the false impression that it would carry over into the future. Whatever the cause it's a shame.

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8 minutes ago, oldnews said:

This team isn't good enough under this GM!

Correct me if I'm wrong - but wasn't this team the only Canadian franchise to make it to the second round last playoffs?

That was extremely early in the trajectory of this young emerging core.  You don't do that without a solid youth talent and a foundation supporting that youth.

But but this regular season's results are more important?

 

The most evident example of the difference in circumstances - is Hughes - and the significant difference you see between his rookie campaign - with Tanev - and a viable center group - and this season, in Tanev's absence, and a M.A.S.H. group of centers....the second point there was also illustrated in the playoffs - the difference between knocking off the defending champs with healthy Miller, Sutter - and then harm reducing vs Vegas with a limping Miller, Sutter, (and Toffolit) and attempting to hide Gaudette as 3C....neither of which are realistic circumstances to expect to advance vs a team like that.  And yet they adjusted and nearly did (evidence of how stupid Green is, and how unable he is to alter gameplans to circumstances.../s).

 

Context - and temporality - always matter.  I was under the impression that playoff results are what actually underline 'success' - I'm sticking with that - and am not going to fishbowl/abstract what has happened this year out of context.

 

Anyone that expects this group to have made the playoffs under this year's circumstances - are delusional.

 

No team is going anywhere with 3 centers out of their lineup.  No young team was going to find this season's circumstances particularly conducive to success - and no team is going to 'come back' from both their insane schedule to start the season - and then rinse and repeat to end it - after clawing back into the race in the mid portion - only to lose half a lineup to covid (while already missing their most productive young forward) - and face a schedule that no team is going to go on a 'run' in the midst of.   Do I 'blame' Benning for all of it? "Blame is just a lazy person's way of making sense of chaos."

 

So - I set aside expectations of short term results - enjoy watching Lind, Juolevi, Highmore, Rathbone, Gadjovich, etc.

I also welcome the chance to draft another important young piece or two.

 

I have little concern that this team - under normal circumstances - will once again be competitive.  I don't need to fire Green, Benning et al to gamble on replacement managers - the assumption is always that things will be better - but that can always go either way.  I'm fine with this course - most of the people hanging banners behind airplanes - have one-liner 'plans' that don't necessarily hold any more water than the existing one (no, the team doesn't operate without a 'plan' - and at the same time, "man makes plans and God just laughs" = any plan is going to run into the necessity to alter it to - unforseen - circumstances).

Getting tired of the "but we had so many injuries" excuse. Maybe we need old players who arent brittle af. Those "foundational players" dont help much from IR. They dont even help much when they are in the lineup. The Canucks even when fully healthy were terrible this season. How do you square that away?

 

Last years team also had Tanev to help Hughes, Toffoli to actually provide some steady offense, Markstrom to stand on his head, and Stecher to provide steady 3rd pairing D. Schmidt helps but doesnt replace Tanev and is improperly utilized, Demko made Markstrom somewhat expendable so letting him go was fine. No one replaced Toffoli though or Stecher, both of whom are better than what replaced them. 

 

People who fear change because it could be worse arent really looking objectively at exactly how bad things really are and have been. They also are the type of people that are comfortable with losing. Winning takes adjustments, the biggest of which need to be a new, competent GM and coaches who are able to adjust when things arent working rather than relying on a goalie standing on his head as happens far too often with this team in the Green/Benning era.

 

I didnt expect this team to make the playoffs at all. Not sure when I said that. Getting to the playoffs last year on a play in and getting past St Louis were a nice surprise. But they beat a comparably hole filled team in Minny to get in and the Blues played like crap. They got dominated by Vegas and it would have been over early if not for out of this world goaltending by Demko. People who look at it that, despite 5 years of being near the bottom of the league and reverting back to bottom of the league this year, this team must be competitive because they made it last year is delusional. 

 

They could probably lose Pearson, Sutter, Edler, Beagle, Roussel, Eriksson, Baertschi, and several bottom 6 energy guys and not be appreciably worse going with young players. How could they be sny worse than multiple bottom of the league finishes they have had with them? Thats how badly this team is actually constructed.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Chicken. said:

Boy do I miss watching Virtanen hit compilations under the false impression that it would carry over into the future. Whatever the cause it's a shame.

That hit showed SOOO much promise!

 

Brings back memories of his days in the WHL. He just never seemed to have enough drive to become the whole player that we hoped we were drafting

 

 

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38 minutes ago, oldnews said:

This team isn't good enough under this GM!

Correct me if I'm wrong - but wasn't this team the only Canadian franchise to make it to the second round last playoffs?

That was extremely early in the trajectory of this young emerging core.  You don't do that without a solid youth talent and a foundation supporting that youth.

But but this regular season's results are more important?

 

The most evident example of the difference in circumstances - is Hughes - and the significant difference you see between his rookie campaign - with Tanev - and a viable center group - and this season, in Tanev's absence, and a M.A.S.H. group of centers....the second point there was also illustrated in the playoffs - the difference between knocking off the defending champs with healthy Miller, Sutter - and then harm reducing vs Vegas with a limping Miller, Sutter, (and Toffolit) and attempting to hide Gaudette as 3C....neither of which are realistic circumstances to expect to advance vs a team like that.  And yet they adjusted and nearly did (evidence of how stupid Green is, and how unable he is to alter gameplans to circumstances.../s).

 

Context - and temporality - always matter.  I was under the impression that playoff results are what actually underline 'success' - I'm sticking with that - and am not going to fishbowl/abstract what has happened this year out of context.

 

Anyone that expects this group to have made the playoffs under this year's circumstances - are delusional.

 

No team is going anywhere with 3 centers out of their lineup.  No young team was going to find this season's circumstances particularly conducive to success - and no team is going to 'come back' from both their insane schedule to start the season - and then rinse and repeat to end it - after clawing back into the race in the mid portion - only to lose half a lineup to covid (while already missing their most productive young forward) - and face a schedule that no team is going to go on a 'run' in the midst of.   Do I 'blame' Benning for all of it? "Blame is just a lazy person's way of making sense of chaos."

 

So - I set aside expectations of short term results - enjoy watching Lind, Juolevi, Highmore, Rathbone, Gadjovich, etc.

I also welcome the chance to draft another important young piece or two.

 

I have little concern that this team - under normal circumstances - will once again be competitive.  I don't need to fire Green, Benning et al to gamble on replacement managers - the assumption is always that things will be better - but that can always go either way.  I'm fine with this course - most of the people hanging banners behind airplanes - have one-liner 'plans' that don't necessarily hold any more water than the existing one (no, the team doesn't operate without a 'plan' - and at the same time, "man makes plans and God just laughs" = any plan is going to run into the necessity to alter it to - unforseen - circumstances).

I mostly agree with it, although Brown and Baumer have proven during their entire tenure here that they are woefully unqualified to coach at any level.  While the circumstances have certainly been extenuating, having those two clowns sabotage the team has not been beneficial.  While Green himself is a fine coach, his refusal to hold his incompetent assistants accountable and replace them  with actual coaches should be reviewed long and hard.  Benning's set the team up pretty well to contend in a non-Covid season at least, especially with the young studs he's drafted.

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28 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I have little concern that this team - under normal circumstances - will once again be competitive.  I don't need to fire Green, Benning et al to gamble on replacement managers - the assumption is always that things will be better - but that can always go either way.  I'm fine with this course - most of the people hanging banners behind airplanes - have one-liner 'plans' that don't necessarily hold any more water than the existing one (no, the team doesn't operate without a 'plan' - and at the same time, "man makes plans and God just laughs" = any plan is going to run into the necessity to alter it to - unforseen - circumstances).

gambling on a new coach and GM isn't a good idea, but if there were upgrades out there its not like our current staff is irreplaceable either. I wouldn't want to see some sort of knee jerk move on Aqulini's part, but if there are upgrades in both positions I don't see a reason not to. Its no different from upgrading player positions.

 

So the question for me would be who is better than Green? can someone make a compelling case for Gallant, e.g.?  Is Lombardi better than Benning? 

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Losers make excuses, complain about circumstances outside their control, and blame others.

 

Winners accept responsibility, adjust when necessary, and own their mistakes while trying to avoid making them again.

 

Hard to see why the Canucks are losers under Benning and Green isnt it?

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3 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Losers make excuses, complain about circumstances outside their control, and blame others.

 

Winners accept responsibility, adjust when necessary, and own their mistakes while trying to avoid making them again.

 

Hard to see why the Canucks are losers under Benning and Green isnt it?

it was great how Edmonton accepted responsibility for wining the lotto over and over. 

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6 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Losers make excuses, complain about circumstances outside their control, and blame others.

 

 

 

 

That's all you ever do just from the negative whiny perspective.

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7 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

gambling on a new coach and GM isn't a good idea, but if there were upgrades out there its not like our current staff is irreplaceable either. I wouldn't want to see some sort of knee jerk move on Aqulini's part, but if there are upgrades in both positions I don't see a reason not to. Its no different from upgrading player positions.

 

So the question for me would be who is better than Green? can someone make a compelling case for Gallant, e.g.?  Is Lombardi better than Benning? 

Carolina seems to be having issues re-signing Rod the Bod.  Time to bring him home.

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1 minute ago, King Heffy said:

Carolina seems to be having issues re-signing Rod the Bod.  Time to bring him home.

that would be great, but sounds like he really wants to stay. He's asking for his staff to be given extensions along with him, is the hold up apparently. Great leadership right there. 

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1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

that would be great, but sounds like he really wants to stay. He's asking for his staff to be given extensions along with him, is the hold up apparently. Great leadership right there. 

He can bring his own staff; it's not like we should be retaining any of our assistant coaches besides Clark.

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14 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Losers make excuses, complain about circumstances outside their control, and blame others.

 

Winners accept responsibility, adjust when necessary, and own their mistakes while trying to avoid making them again.

 

Hard to see why the Canucks are losers under Benning and Green isnt it?

I know he’s a huge homer but I’m pretty sure oldnews isn’t Benning or Green.

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2 hours ago, khay said:

Agree. The bottom 6 guys do a good job of keeping the opponent's best players in check in general. Other team's spare parts (Boyd, Vesey, etc) clearly don't eat up the tough minutes very well like Beagle, Motte, etc.

 

And we will need to replace two centers Sutter (UFA) and Beagle(likely LTIR) for next season. That will be a tough task.

 

Although I'm also not worried about the games like last night or even previous games against Toronto and Sens, the concerning thing is that the team has always been outshot and out-chanced even with full lineup.

 

As serviceable as they have been, if we can upgrade on some of these "foundational" players, we should upgrade.

 

 

 

 

I don't hate Boyd, I think there's potential there for a bottom 6 center.  I think he needs some coaching to better understand his role, but he seems like a decent skater and could be a viable value-priced player, maybe even a replacement for Sutter at about $1 million.  He's about Sutter's size, five years younger, and has put up about the same points per game in his NHL career.   Vesey is horrible.  I don't know if he's gripping the stick too tight trying to make a good impression, but he's had about six golden opportunities and has gacked on all of them.  I will say that some of his board work last night was a nice improvement, I've been thinking that he plays way too soft for a guy his size, I'd be happy if he didn't come back next year.  This is a good experience for Cole Lind.  He has always been slow to acclimate in his first year at a new level, whether it was Jr, the AHL or now the NHL.  I think he looks like he belongs at this level, he's a good skater.  Once he gets comfortable with thinking the game faster, he'll handle the puck more, and better understand where to be and when to get there.  The jump between this year's AHL and the NHL is kind of like two steps since most of the best players who would be on AHL rosters are being carried on NHL taxi squads, which is why I'm hopeful yet dubious about Gadj's stats.  It would be good if he's improved his skating enough to compete at this level, a big guy who can screen the goalie, pick up some garbage goals, and drop the mitts once in a while is something we haven't had since Kassian drank is way out of town.

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1 minute ago, canuktravella said:

 mind blowing how many people want to resign sutter hes not that  good center  when would we sign him at 1.5 per for 2 yrs whenwe can sign any ahl center ufa for 900k   enough with the foundational plugs

So you’d rather have someone like Highmore or Hawrlyk center the 3rd line instead of Sutter??

 

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9 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

that would be great, but sounds like he really wants to stay. He's asking for his staff to be given extensions along with him, is the hold up apparently. Great leadership right there. 

A lot of players would go through the wall for a guy like Rod. They know what he was as a player, a captain and a leader. Deep respect for a guy like that. Before he even coaches his first practice, the team is 10% better just on alpha-toughness and accountability. You can't put a value on something like that. Carolina can't possibly let him walk. 

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3 minutes ago, Jack Fig said:

A lot of players would go through the wall for a guy like Rod. They know what he was as a player, a captain and a leader. Deep respect for a guy like that. Before he even coaches his first practice, the team is 10% better just on alpha-toughness and accountability. You can't put a value on something like that. Carolina can't possibly let him walk. 

He'd also make damn good and sure the players are fit, and take good care of themselves. That's partly why players would go through a wall for him.

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