awalk Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 22 hours ago, JohnTavares said: Yeah ok. Where's OJ these days? Ohhh the receipts the receipts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sxqhfeh Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 Friedman saying that Management has no interest in rebuild or tear down. I just wonder how that's even possible anymore. How does management think they are going to turn around this team with hockey trades with a bunch of nothings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 (edited) I think the most frustrating part of all this is how painfully obvious the moves that should have been made were to most of us fans of the team last year. Brock should have been traded if he couldn't be traded he should have been let walk. Signing him was never a good idea. It doesn't take @EddieVedder to know we'd reached the "end of the road" Miller should have been moved at the deadline. Rumored. , Nils Lundkvist, a first-round pick, and Filip Chytil could we have twisted their arm to make that a 2023 1st I think so. Sign Bo what on earth were they thinking they could have gotten it done if they hadn't been so ham fisted and dumb struck with JT Miller. 7m would have locked him up this offseason. With Miller and Brocks money off the books they would have the cap flexability to properly address our D. Lastly WTF were they thinking drafting Lekkerimaki this was a completely baffling pick. They got a pick for Hamonic great keep it. What do we need Dermott for??? Great job on the Bear trade The Stillman trade was completely un necessary. IMO this MGMT group doesn't have a clue what they are doing. Benning was an upgrade. Edited December 20, 2022 by hammertime 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSVII Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 (edited) 24 minutes ago, hammertime said: IMO this MGMT group doesn't have a clue what they are doing. Benning was an upgrade. Allvin could have traded a top 10 pick to Arizona for future considerations and it would have still been a better trade than what JB pulled off. This group still has a long way to go before they approach Benning level of value destruction. Edited December 20, 2022 by DSVII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sbriggs Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 (edited) On 12/19/2022 at 2:34 PM, JohnTavares said: Yeah sure... top 4 in your local beer league team. Your a little late aren't ya, you just get released from prison? Edited December 21, 2022 by Sbriggs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 1 hour ago, hammertime said: I think the most frustrating part of all this is how painfully obvious the moves that should have been made were to most of us fans of the team last year. Brock should have been traded if he couldn't be traded he should have been let walk. Signing him was never a good idea. It doesn't take @EddieVedder to know we'd reached the "end of the road" Miller should have been moved at the deadline. Rumored. , Nils Lundkvist, a first-round pick, and Filip Chytil could we have twisted their arm to make that a 2023 1st I think so. Sign Bo what on earth were they thinking they could have gotten it done if they hadn't been so ham fisted and dumb struck with JT Miller. 7m would have locked him up this offseason. With Miller and Brocks money off the books they would have the cap flexability to properly address our D. Lastly WTF were they thinking drafting Lekkerimaki this was a completely baffling pick. They got a pick for Hamonic great keep it. What do we need Dermott for??? Great job on the Bear trade The Stillman trade was completely un necessary. IMO this MGMT group doesn't have a clue what they are doing. Benning was an upgrade. We can yell at management all we want. But it’s the owner who is setting the dir3vtion. Even Benning was hamstrung by the owner’s insistence on trying to “win now” at the expense of the future. It’s his club, so he can do wha5 he wants. I just wish more managers had the courage of Nonis and right away told this owner he won’t sacrifice the future for a short term now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, hammertime said: I think the most frustrating part of all this is how painfully obvious the moves that should have been made were to most of us fans of the team last year. Brock should have been traded if he couldn't be traded he should have been let walk. Signing him was never a good idea. It doesn't take @EddieVedder to know we'd reached the "end of the road" Miller should have been moved at the deadline. Rumored. , Nils Lundkvist, a first-round pick, and Filip Chytil could we have twisted their arm to make that a 2023 1st I think so. Sign Bo what on earth were they thinking they could have gotten it done if they hadn't been so ham fisted and dumb struck with JT Miller. 7m would have locked him up this offseason. With Miller and Brocks money off the books they would have the cap flexability to properly address our D. Lastly WTF were they thinking drafting Lekkerimaki this was a completely baffling pick. They got a pick for Hamonic great keep it. What do we need Dermott for??? Great job on the Bear trade The Stillman trade was completely un necessary. IMO this MGMT group doesn't have a clue what they are doing. Benning was an upgrade. Lekkerimaki was ranked in or around the top 10-20, he's far from a baffling pick. Edited December 21, 2022 by canuck73_3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petterson649 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 Management had only 2 things to do last offseason: 1) Trade Miller 2) upgrade our D I think it was a 100% consensus that Miller wasn't gonna repeat a 90+ point season. Even hardcore Miller fans were like yeah... his stats were inflated this season, It gonna be 80 points max going forward. Like 100% consensus on this. This signing is gonna be worse than Louie Erickson plus OEL combined. And Miller is NOT a leader. Whining, being angry constantly, breaking shit, do not make you a good leader, less a leader of any sort. Management backed up the signing for his intangibles... yeah OK lol. You just signed a guy who's gonna be a cancer in the group for 8 years. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petterson649 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 Just now, canuck73_3 said: Lekkerimaki was ranked in or around the top 10-20, he's far from a baffling pick. Lekkerimaki sucks. but will probably be better than Jake or Oulevi 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, Petterson649 said: Lekkerimaki sucks. but will probably be better than Jake or Oulevi Letterkenny has the character that both Jake and OJ lacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 49 minutes ago, Petterson649 said: Lekkerimaki sucks. but will probably be better than Jake or Oulevi based on what exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanleyCupOneDay Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 Do you want a cookie @JohnTavares? I think I’ll give you a cookie. There is such a thing as a sore winner, just food for thought, literally. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 38 minutes ago, StanleyCupOneDay said: Do you want a cookie @JohnTavares? I think I’ll give you a cookie. There is such a thing as a sore winner, just food for thought, literally. This. Celebrating your team is a failure because you predicted it is such a clown move. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, hammertime said: Brock should have been traded if he couldn't be traded he should have been let walk. Signing him was never a good idea. It doesn't take @EddieVedder to know we'd reached the "end of the road" Why? I have seen this argument several times here and it's baffling to me, and a prime case of revisionist history. In 20-21 he was arguably our best forward. He lead the team in points and had taken massive steps defensively. In 21-22 he had a very bad year, but there is a very reasonable response to of why that could happen. A young man was in the process of losing his father while he was away from home. Boeser had a severely limited value coming off of a bad year, and a massive QO looming over. But in the last 2 years, he had been our best forward, and been bad (but it's very hard to blame him for why). There were rumors that management had explored a trade, but the value because of the QO was just not there. Not only was NO ONE at the time mentioning the felt that the best option (or even an option at all) was to let Boeser walk but it would have been completely nonsensical. Edited December 21, 2022 by Shayster007 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 3 hours ago, canuck73_3 said: Lekkerimaki was ranked in or around the top 10-20, he's far from a baffling pick. We needed another soft scoring winger like we needed a 3rd eyebrow. 13 minutes ago, Shayster007 said: Why? I have seen this argument several times here and it's baffling to me, and a prime case of revisionist history. In 20-21 he was arguably our best forward. He lead the team in points and had taken massive steps defensively. In 21-22 he had a very bad year, but there is a very reasonable response to of why that could happen. A young man was in the process of losing his father while he was away from home. Boeser had a severely limited value coming off of a bad year, and a massive QO looming over. But in the last 2 years, he had been our best forward, and been bad (but it's very hard to blame him for why). There were rumors that management had explored a trade, but the value because of the QO was just not there. Not only was NO ONE at the time mentioning the felt that the best option (or even an option at all) was to let Boeser walk but it would have been completely nonsensical. We needed a $7m +/- soft scoring winger like we needed another belly button. 3 hours ago, Alflives said: We can yell at management all we want. But it’s the owner who is setting the dir3vtion. Even Benning was hamstrung by the owner’s insistence on trying to “win now” at the expense of the future. It’s his club, so he can do wha5 he wants. I just wish more managers had the courage of Nonis and right away told this owner he won’t sacrifice the future for a short term now. Even if true and more so especially if true. They did nothing to improve the D which literally any Canuck fan could have told you was the glaring hole on the team. Instead they spent +10 million on wingers Brock and Mikheyev (Who I do appreciate). When Lazar, Aman, Kuzmenko would have been adequate even if Kuzmenko flopped our problems weren't on the wing they were on D and at 3c. If you want to retool and be serious about going for it with this team these guys were luxuries not answers. They spent their dinner money on cookie dough ice cream. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, hammertime said: We needed a $7m +/- soft scoring winger like we needed another belly button. What a completely and utterly half-assed reply. Edited December 21, 2022 by Shayster007 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 On 5/16/2021 at 1:54 PM, JohnTavares said: I want to have a genuine and honest conversation with those who still support current management. I recognize there has been a major shift here on this forum with regards to supporting Jim Benning and co. After running off the highs of taking Vegas to Game 7, the majority of fans on this forum still heavily supported Jim and co. Jim Benning slander was usually downvoted to oblivion and met with confrontation and disgust up until the 2020 offseason. Several people were downvoted or confronted for suggesting that the Canucks could a step back with limited cap space and several key players needing new contracts. The turning point for myself was when Jim traded Bonino for Sutter: gave up arguably the better player on a cheaper contract, lost value in the draft pick exchange, proceeded to call Sutter a "foundational" player, signed him to a major extension without Sutter ever playing a single game for us. This was 6 years ago in 2015. This series of transactions raised major red flags for me and the subsequent moves after really sealed the deal - Jim Benning is the not the right guy for the job. After an abysmal year from the Canucks, a terrible cap sheet, and an average/below-average prospect pool to look forward to, many have shifted their opinions and want to clean house. For those who still support management, can I ask why? On a results basis: The Canucks have one of the worst records in the league since Benning took over, while spending to the cap every year. The Canucks have had one playoff round win in seven years. The Canucks are about to finish as a bottom tier team despite having our "core" pieces in place. Even BEFORE the Covid outbreak, the Canucks were unlikely to make the playoffs. Yes, Petterson has missed a lot of games, but every team has injuries. If you want to build a winning team, you need depth, depth and more depth. For those who look to Covid and the Petterson injury as excuses, why? We were bad before Covid and if your team relies on ONE guy to keep your season afloat, then your team is not very good to begin with. On a process basis: If results were poor, but the process was defined and executed, I wouldn't even be mad. Jim and co have proven time and time again, that their really is no clear direction. Seven years in and there has never been consistent messaging or moves that aligned. This management truly operates on a day-to-day basis. How can a management team running a near billion dollar business have no consistent plan or long-term outlook? Are we re-building? Are we trying to be competitive? Are we re-tooling? Why give up assets to acquire Toffoli and then not offer a contract? Why give another aging forward (who's having a bad season) a 3 year extension with a flat cap? If we are trying to compete, why did we not ship out Virtanen in the offseason and use that money to keep a Tanev or a Toffoli? Virtanen was abysmal in the playoffs and barely played - it was clear that the fit wasn't there anymore. On a relationship management basis: Jim and management have proven time and time again, that they do not work well with others and have the thinnest front office in the league. They have outed several talented individuals in the organization (Brackett, Linden, Gillman etc.). It was recently reported that Jim and Weisbroad pushed back on Courtnall being in an advisory role. It's clear that Jim and co do not want voices in the room and clearly want yes-men supporting their operation. It's now looking like Ian Clark won't even be re-signed, one of the most important coaches will not be retained this year - another talented member of the organization looking to be on the way out. Jim has and co have not been able to maintain a good relationship with the fans because of the constant inconsistent messaging and the amateur quotes like "day-to-day" and "run out of time". On a transactions basis: This has been beaten to death and there's really no need to go over every transaction. Jim has made some good moves, but his negative transactions FAR outweigh in substance and quantity than the positive transactions. Most Jim supporters resort to his drafting ability as a get-out-of-jail card. Jim has been an above-average drafter for sure - he still missed big time on the Virtanen and Juolevi picks, setting this franchise back for years. So I can't really give Jim and A or an A+ in drafting. Despite his "above-average" drafting, his contracts and trades have mostly been below average to downright terrible. Can I ask the management supporters, are you OK with Jim's "above-average" drafting ability to compensate all the other negatives he brings to the table? What's still giving you faith that Jim can still run this team successfully after 7 years of mostly failure? Are you willing to give Jim his 2 more years, for a 9 year plan? Most GMs never see 9 years or more unless they have delivered exceptional results - which Jim has definitely not done. Why not look to someone new for change? Why after 7 years, do you still want to run with this guy? TLDR: I want to know why you still support the current management group. Why the patience? It's been 7 years now, why do we need to give him 2 more? We have a very large sample size to work with already. Why not seek someone new for a change? Basically 6 months into a full management change , And it’s a question of patience? How about no patience. How about all the seasons since 2011 adding up to a chirp from the “horses” mouth like this one (NHL Approved). The end of JB’s management has brought change, and in 6 months it’s been significant. All that’s left is to move the players with weak “cliches” about chickens , and replace them with the Culture change that’s needed. The Captaincy on this team since Linden has been incredibly weak and silent. The sooner we get back to the “Blue Collar Hockey “ that was putting us on he map, the more this team is notarized with the possibility of winning any game or series out of physical work ethic on the ice. This Management has not had the chance to make their biggest move yet,. But it will be soon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 10 minutes ago, SilentSam said: Basically 6 months into a full management change , And it’s a question of patience? How about no patience. How about all the seasons since 2011 adding up to a chirp from the “horses” mouth like this one (NHL Approved). The end of JB’s management has brought change, and in 6 months it’s been significant. All that’s left is to move the players with weak “cliches” about chickens , and replace them with the Culture change that’s needed. The Captaincy on this team since Linden has been incredibly weak and silent. The sooner we get back to the “Blue Collar Hockey “ that was putting us on he map, the more this team is notarized with the possibility of winning any game or series out of physical work ethic on the ice. This Management has not had the chance to make their biggest move yet,. But it will be soon. JT Miller…. Massive opportunity missed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 11 minutes ago, Shayster007 said: . What a completely and utterly half-assed reply. Sure you want me to address Brock. We no longer had any need for him. Even if he scored 30 finally hallelujah he wasn't the player all excuses aside dad, injuries etc him bouncing back or not wasn't going to push the needle for us. Kuz might have a better season this year than Brock ever has and doesn't move the needle. We need a soft scoring winger like we need a second belly button. We need one for 6.65m even less. To be fair top 4 RHD is a hard position to fill slamming yourself up against the cap makes it nearly impossible. Nevermind that you didn't sign your Captain because you offered him less than cookie dough Brock. I'm about to go get some 1000 island dressin cuz I got depression watching these guys fumble on the retool and rebuild simultaneously. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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