BigTramFan Posted May 22, 2023 Share Posted May 22, 2023 42 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: We keep Toffoli and Tanev we don’t acquire OEL and Garland leading to the salary issue. Yeah I think you're right there. Original decision was to let Tanev and Toffoli walk. JB then used the $9m cap space to resign Virtanen and trade for Schmidt. Both of those decisions failed miserably and led to JB wanting to find a new top 6 winger and a top 4 Dman. Being able to clear $12m of bad contracts (Loui, Beagle, Roussel) in exchange for $12m of OEL and Garland was too much for JB to resist! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Lasso Posted May 22, 2023 Share Posted May 22, 2023 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougieL Posted May 22, 2023 Share Posted May 22, 2023 8 hours ago, AnthonyG said: Buddy who you callin stupid and an idiot?? This took you EIGHT WEEKS TO REPLY???? 8 F***ING WEEKS?????? TWO WHOLE MONTHS AND THATS ALL YOU GOT??? i’ve been living rent free in that tiny little head of yours. Lmao you’ve been losing sleep over this lmfao. 2 months later at midnight on a saturday you finally get the words you’re trying to say out of your mouth hahahahahahahahahhaahhahha Let's review. At a time when Hughes had played over 10 more games than OEL, you stated that OEL had been on ice for only 59 5-on-5 goals against versus 54 for Hughes, claiming these numbers made them comparable. In response, I asked you how many more 5-on-5 minutes Hughes had played than OEL. Your response was to ridicule me by brilliantly pointing out that Hughes played more 5-on-5 minutes by simple virtue of having played more games. You literally had no idea that I trying to help you understand that being on ice for more 5-on-5 minutes made it more likely to have more 5-on-5 goals scored against you. Then, as if you hadn't proved your ignorance enough, you multiplied the number games OEL had missed by his AVERAGE TOTAL ICE (instead of 5-on-5 ice) and assumed that OEL would not get scored once in any of those minutes, and used those numbers to claim that OEL had favorable 5-on-5 goals against numbers to Hughes. So yeah, I chose to ignore it for a while because the ignorance of what you said was too much to handle. Also, go back and take a look at the length of your responses, the ridiculous and immature nature of those responses, and ask yourself who is in whose head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 On 5/21/2023 at 9:11 PM, dougieL said: Let's review. At a time when Hughes had played over 10 more games than OEL, you stated that OEL had been on ice for only 59 5-on-5 goals against versus 54 for Hughes, claiming these numbers made them comparable. In response, I asked you how many more 5-on-5 minutes Hughes had played than OEL. Your response was to ridicule me by brilliantly pointing out that Hughes played more 5-on-5 minutes by simple virtue of having played more games. You literally had no idea that I trying to help you understand that being on ice for more 5-on-5 minutes made it more likely to have more 5-on-5 goals scored against you. Then, as if you hadn't proved your ignorance enough, you multiplied the number games OEL had missed by his AVERAGE TOTAL ICE (instead of 5-on-5 ice) and assumed that OEL would not get scored once in any of those minutes, and used those numbers to claim that OEL had favorable 5-on-5 goals against numbers to Hughes. So yeah, I chose to ignore it for a while because the ignorance of what you said was too much to handle. Also, go back and take a look at the length of your responses, the ridiculous and immature nature of those responses, and ask yourself who is in whose head Buddy you came back 2 months later. There is no debate about who’s in who’s head Riddle me this -27.51 -11.63 -10.12 what do these numbers represent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougieL Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, AnthonyG said: Buddy you came back 2 months later. There is no debate about who’s in who’s head Riddle me this -27.51 -11.63 -10.12 what do these numbers represent? Wow listing 3 random numbers and asking what they represent. You must feel very smart. Riddle me this - who tried to argue OEL's defensive superiority over Hughes by saying that OEL had only been on for 59 5-on-5 goals while Hughes had been on for 54, when Hughes had played over 10 more games? Edited May 23, 2023 by dougieL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougieL Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 2 hours ago, AnthonyG said: Buddy you came back 2 months later. There is no debate about who’s in who’s head Riddle me this -27.51 -11.63 -10.12 what do these numbers represent? 1 hour ago, dougieL said: Wow listing 3 random numbers and asking what they represent. You must feel very smart. Riddle me this - who tried to argue OEL's defensive superiority over Hughes by saying that OEL had only been on for 59 5-on-5 goals while Hughes had been on for 54, when Hughes had played over 10 more games? Then when you realized (hopefully) that you screwed up, what did you do? You took OEL's number of missed games, multiplied by his average TOTAL ice time, added it to his 5-on-5 ice time, then argued he'd have 59 5-on-5 goals against in that many minutes, which was comparable to Hughes' 5-on-5 minutes. Even if you multiplied and added stuff together that made actually some sense, you still would have been assuming that OEL wouldn't get scored on in over 200 minutes of ice time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, dougieL said: Wow listing 3 random numbers and asking what they represent. You must feel very smart. Riddle me this - who tried to argue OEL's defensive superiority over Hughes by saying that OEL had only been on for 59 5-on-5 goals while Hughes had been on for 54, when Hughes had played over 10 more games? Those 3 “random” numbers are a far greater problem. -27.51 is Spencer Martins GSAA in all situations for the whole season. He had the worst GSAA in the entire league. He played 29 games. Thats basically 1 bad goal per game. -11.63 is Delia’s GSAA for the season in 20GP one bad goal every other game. He ranked 16th worst. -10.12 is Demko’s GSAA leading up to his injury, which had him ranked as the 3rd worst GSAA. In a total of 15GP. But OELs defensive numbers are what concerned you… lol his job isnt to make saves. His job is to shut down the opposition. Do you understand that you and many others focus on guys like OEL or Myers is turning a complete blind eye and gaslighting the actual problem? Blame the D all you want, when the worst stretch of hockey combined for -49.26GSAA in a combined 64GP you think OEL was the problem??? Not even Lidstrom would be able to save us. When speaking about Hughes vs OEL in their defensive contributions you cant even comprehend 1) Quality of competition (OEL takes on the tougher match ups which would result in higher chances of being scored on) 2) dZS% - Higher dZS% puts OEL at further risk of being scored on. Meanwhile Hughes is down in the o-zone far away from his own net, yet is still surrendering a pretty high amount 3) In less dzone time Hughes the opposition is scoring in fewer entries and time spent than when OEL is on the ice. 4) whos fault is it if the goal comes from the other side? 5) is it the dmans fault for soft goals? I would like to think you understand QH is not a shut down dman right? And if he isnt (which he is not) who does that leave as your shutdown pair? Because Schenn was stapled to Hughes to make up for his deficiencies. So that leaves OEL and or Myers in shut down roles Hey why dont we use a timeline that OEL was actually present for??? Not use a timeline where he was on IR and Demko returned and learned how to play goalie again? Something I was sarcastically trolling you about with your original timelines and your way of breaking it down as “comparable” Season opener to OEL’s injury QH 52GP OEL 54GP 5v5 TOI QH 970:10 OEL 908:36 So far lookin pretty close GA QH 44 OEL 59 ooooh yikes… not lookin good for OEL. Right? Lets look at their expected goals against to breakdown how much of those goals they were “at fault” xGA QH 44.16 - every single goal accounted for OEL 44.88 - 14 times our goalie let OEL down. SCA QH 447 OEL 454 HDCA QH 213 OEL 203 HDGA QH 27 OEL 29 LDCA QH 319 OEL 354 So far Hughes surrenders more high danger chances in slightly more TOI and lets be honest the MAJOR bulk of his TOI is in the ozone and OEL’s is in the dzone. Oooh this is my favourite LOW DANGER GOALS AGAINST QH 4 OEL 14 CLEARLY THATS A GOALIE ISSUE. Not making the easy saves OR they are shots coming from an area of the ice defensemen are not responsible for. Offensive zone starts QH 132 OEL 105 Further adding to my point QH spends more of his icetime further from the net. Defensive zone starts QH 101 OEL 123 oZS% QH 56.65% OEL 46.05% dzone faceoffs QH 262 OEL 313 51 more faceoffs in the dzone for OEL. How about the PK??? Seeing how QH is this almighty defensive shutdown second coming of Lidstrom that you believe him to be and OEL is a pylon PK TOI QH 50:09 OEL 55:46 GA QH 10 OEL 15 Before you get all excited, just remember… its about breaking down that number further to gain a true representation of what is actually happening. xGA QH 9.03 OEL 6.04 What happened bro?? OEL has more time short handed and less xGA than Hughes?? scoring chances against? QH 56 OEL 53 looking worse and worse for Hughes short handed as it did at 5v5 HDCA - (high danger chances against just so you fully understand) QH 31 OEL 21 oooooooh yikes. My argument looks better and better the further this goes. HDGA QH 4 OEL 5 looks like QH had his bacon saved quite a few times in those 31 attempts. LDCA QH 31 OEL 29 LDGA QH 2 OEL 5 3 more low danger goals allowed by garbage goaltending and you still think OEL is responsible. Yet when breaking down their time spent in the Dzone OEL plays far more minutes than QH yet Hughes is allowing nearly the same or greater chances etc which would indicate that teams need less time to score goals or get chances when QH is in the dzone than when OEL is in the dzone. If you truly think that all 970 mins of QH 5v5 time from game 1 to game 52 that he played were all in the dzone, you should probably stay off the forums and stop embarrassing yourself. Edited May 23, 2023 by AnthonyG 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zimmy Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, AnthonyG said: Those 3 “random” numbers are a far greater problem. -27.51 is Spencer Martins GSAA in all situations for the whole season. He had the worst GSAA in the entire league. He played 29 games. Thats basically 1 bad per game. -11.63 is Delia’s GSAA for the season in 20GP one bad goal every other game. He ranked 16th worst. -10.12 is Demko’s GSAA leading up to his injury, which had him ranked as the 3rd worst GSAA. In a total of 15GP. But OELs defensive numbers are what concerned you… lol his job isnt to make saves. His job is to shut down the opposition. Do you understand that you and many others focus on guys like OEL or Myers is turning a complete blind eye and gaslighting the actual problem? Blame the D all you want, when the worst stretch of hockey combined for -49.26GSAA in a combined 64GP you think OEL was the problem??? Not even Lidstrom would be able to save us. When speaking about Hughes vs OEL in their defensive contributions you cant even comprehend 1) Quality of competition (OEL takes on the tougher match ups which would result in higher chances of being scored on) 2) dZS% - Higher dZS% puts OEL at further risk of being scored on. Meanwhile Hughes is down in the o-zone far away from his own net, yet is still surrendering a pretty high 3) In less dzone time Hughes the opposition is scoring in fewer entries and time spent than when OEL is on the ice. 4) whos fault is it if the goal comes from the other side? 5) is it the dmans fault for soft goals? I would like to think you understand QH is not a shut down dman right? And if he isnt (which he is not) who does that leave as your shutdown pair? Because Schenn was stapled to Hughes to make up for his deficiencies. So that leaves OEL and or Myers in shut down roles Hey why dont we use a timeline that OEL was actually present for??? Not use a timeline where he was on IR and Demko returned and learned how to play goalie again? Something I was sarcastically trolling you about with your original timelines and your way of breaking it down as “comparable” Season opener to OEL’s injury QH 52GP OEL 54GP 5v5 TOI QH 970:10 OEL 908:36 So far lookin pretty close GA QH 44 OEL 59 ooooh yikes… not lookin good for OEL. Right? Lets look at their expected goals against to breakdown how much of those goals they were “at fault” xGA QH 44.16 - every single goal accounted for OEL 44.88 - 14 times our goalie let OEL down. SCA QH 447 OEL 454 HDCA QH 213 OEL 203 HDGA QH 27 OEL 29 LDCA QH 319 OEL 354 So far Hughes surrenders more high danger chances in slightly more TOI and lets be honest the MAJOR bulk of his TOI is in the ozone and OEL’s is in the dzone. Oooh this is my favourite LOW DANGER GOALS AGAINST QH 4 OEL 14 CLEARLY THATS A GOALIE ISSUE. Not making the easy saves OR they are shots coming from an area of the ice defensemen are not responsible for. Offensive zone starts QH 132 OEL 105 Further adding to my point QH spends more of his icetime further from the net. Defensive zone starts QH 101 OEL 123 oZS% QH 56.65% OEL 46.05% dzone faceoffs QH 262 OEL 313 51 more faceoffs in the dzone for OEL. How about the PK??? Seeing how QH is this almighty defensive shutdown second coming of Lidstrom that you believe him to be and OEL is a pylon PK TOI QH 50:09 OEL 55:46 GA QH 10 OEL 15 Before you get all excited, just remember… its about breaking down that number further to gain a true representation of what is actually happening. xGA QH 9.03 OEL 6.04 What happened bro?? OEL has more time short handed and less xGA than Hughes?? scoring chances against? QH 56 OEL 53 looking worse and worse for Hughes short handed as it did at 5v5 HDCA - (high danger chances against just so you fully understand) QH 31 OEL 21 oooooooh yikes. My argument looks better and better the further this goes. HDGA QH 4 OEL 5 looks like QH had his bacon saved quite a few times in those 31 attempts. LDCA QH 31 OEL 29 LDGA QH 2 OEL 5 3 more low danger goals allowed by garbage goaltending and you still think OEL is responsible. Yet when breaking down their time spent in the Dzone OEL plays far more minutes than QH yet Hughes is allowing nearly the same or greater chances etc which would indicate that teams need less time to score goals or get chances when QH is in the dzone than when OEL is in the dzone. If you truly think that all 970 mins of QH 5v5 time from game 1 to game 52 that he played were all in the dzone, you should probably stay off the forums and stop embarrassing yourself. So ……. trade Hughes before any more of these damning analytics become wide spread industry knowledge (maybe already too late!!!) and ……. then get promo department to airbrush OEL onto all team publicity shots !!!! Done !!! (Great read by the way) Edited May 23, 2023 by zimmy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh90 Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 41 minutes ago, AnthonyG said: Those 3 “random” numbers are a far greater problem. -27.51 is Spencer Martins GSAA in all situations for the whole season. He had the worst GSAA in the entire league. He played 29 games. Thats basically 1 bad goal per game. -11.63 is Delia’s GSAA for the season in 20GP one bad goal every other game. He ranked 16th worst. -10.12 is Demko’s GSAA leading up to his injury, which had him ranked as the 3rd worst GSAA. In a total of 15GP. But OELs defensive numbers are what concerned you… lol his job isnt to make saves. His job is to shut down the opposition. Do you understand that you and many others focus on guys like OEL or Myers is turning a complete blind eye and gaslighting the actual problem? Blame the D all you want, when the worst stretch of hockey combined for -49.26GSAA in a combined 64GP you think OEL was the problem??? Not even Lidstrom would be able to save us. When speaking about Hughes vs OEL in their defensive contributions you cant even comprehend 1) Quality of competition (OEL takes on the tougher match ups which would result in higher chances of being scored on) 2) dZS% - Higher dZS% puts OEL at further risk of being scored on. Meanwhile Hughes is down in the o-zone far away from his own net, yet is still surrendering a pretty high amount 3) In less dzone time Hughes the opposition is scoring in fewer entries and time spent than when OEL is on the ice. 4) whos fault is it if the goal comes from the other side? 5) is it the dmans fault for soft goals? I would like to think you understand QH is not a shut down dman right? And if he isnt (which he is not) who does that leave as your shutdown pair? Because Schenn was stapled to Hughes to make up for his deficiencies. So that leaves OEL and or Myers in shut down roles Hey why dont we use a timeline that OEL was actually present for??? Not use a timeline where he was on IR and Demko returned and learned how to play goalie again? Something I was sarcastically trolling you about with your original timelines and your way of breaking it down as “comparable” Season opener to OEL’s injury QH 52GP OEL 54GP 5v5 TOI QH 970:10 OEL 908:36 So far lookin pretty close GA QH 44 OEL 59 ooooh yikes… not lookin good for OEL. Right? Lets look at their expected goals against to breakdown how much of those goals they were “at fault” xGA QH 44.16 - every single goal accounted for OEL 44.88 - 14 times our goalie let OEL down. SCA QH 447 OEL 454 HDCA QH 213 OEL 203 HDGA QH 27 OEL 29 LDCA QH 319 OEL 354 So far Hughes surrenders more high danger chances in slightly more TOI and lets be honest the MAJOR bulk of his TOI is in the ozone and OEL’s is in the dzone. Oooh this is my favourite LOW DANGER GOALS AGAINST QH 4 OEL 14 CLEARLY THATS A GOALIE ISSUE. Not making the easy saves OR they are shots coming from an area of the ice defensemen are not responsible for. Offensive zone starts QH 132 OEL 105 Further adding to my point QH spends more of his icetime further from the net. Defensive zone starts QH 101 OEL 123 oZS% QH 56.65% OEL 46.05% dzone faceoffs QH 262 OEL 313 51 more faceoffs in the dzone for OEL. How about the PK??? Seeing how QH is this almighty defensive shutdown second coming of Lidstrom that you believe him to be and OEL is a pylon PK TOI QH 50:09 OEL 55:46 GA QH 10 OEL 15 Before you get all excited, just remember… its about breaking down that number further to gain a true representation of what is actually happening. xGA QH 9.03 OEL 6.04 What happened bro?? OEL has more time short handed and less xGA than Hughes?? scoring chances against? QH 56 OEL 53 looking worse and worse for Hughes short handed as it did at 5v5 HDCA - (high danger chances against just so you fully understand) QH 31 OEL 21 oooooooh yikes. My argument looks better and better the further this goes. HDGA QH 4 OEL 5 looks like QH had his bacon saved quite a few times in those 31 attempts. LDCA QH 31 OEL 29 LDGA QH 2 OEL 5 3 more low danger goals allowed by garbage goaltending and you still think OEL is responsible. Yet when breaking down their time spent in the Dzone OEL plays far more minutes than QH yet Hughes is allowing nearly the same or greater chances etc which would indicate that teams need less time to score goals or get chances when QH is in the dzone than when OEL is in the dzone. If you truly think that all 970 mins of QH 5v5 time from game 1 to game 52 that he played were all in the dzone, you should probably stay off the forums and stop embarrassing yourself. So you're telling me OEL is tradeable ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, bh90 said: So you're telling me OEL is tradeable ? Why trade him? By the metrics it's Hughes who need to go. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 So Hughes sucks now because the hockey nerds made their decree? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 Why don't we just trade OEL and Garland for players with a single season remaining, a 1st, a 2nd, and a 7th smh 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougieL Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 8 hours ago, AnthonyG said: Those 3 “random” numbers are a far greater problem. -27.51 is Spencer Martins GSAA in all situations for the whole season. He had the worst GSAA in the entire league. He played 29 games. Thats basically 1 bad goal per game. -11.63 is Delia’s GSAA for the season in 20GP one bad goal every other game. He ranked 16th worst. -10.12 is Demko’s GSAA leading up to his injury, which had him ranked as the 3rd worst GSAA. In a total of 15GP. But OELs defensive numbers are what concerned you… lol his job isnt to make saves. His job is to shut down the opposition. Do you understand that you and many others focus on guys like OEL or Myers is turning a complete blind eye and gaslighting the actual problem? Blame the D all you want, when the worst stretch of hockey combined for -49.26GSAA in a combined 64GP you think OEL was the problem??? Not even Lidstrom would be able to save us. When speaking about Hughes vs OEL in their defensive contributions you cant even comprehend 1) Quality of competition (OEL takes on the tougher match ups which would result in higher chances of being scored on) 2) dZS% - Higher dZS% puts OEL at further risk of being scored on. Meanwhile Hughes is down in the o-zone far away from his own net, yet is still surrendering a pretty high amount 3) In less dzone time Hughes the opposition is scoring in fewer entries and time spent than when OEL is on the ice. 4) whos fault is it if the goal comes from the other side? 5) is it the dmans fault for soft goals? I would like to think you understand QH is not a shut down dman right? And if he isnt (which he is not) who does that leave as your shutdown pair? Because Schenn was stapled to Hughes to make up for his deficiencies. So that leaves OEL and or Myers in shut down roles Hey why dont we use a timeline that OEL was actually present for??? Not use a timeline where he was on IR and Demko returned and learned how to play goalie again? Something I was sarcastically trolling you about with your original timelines and your way of breaking it down as “comparable” Season opener to OEL’s injury QH 52GP OEL 54GP 5v5 TOI QH 970:10 OEL 908:36 So far lookin pretty close GA QH 44 OEL 59 ooooh yikes… not lookin good for OEL. Right? Lets look at their expected goals against to breakdown how much of those goals they were “at fault” xGA QH 44.16 - every single goal accounted for OEL 44.88 - 14 times our goalie let OEL down. SCA QH 447 OEL 454 HDCA QH 213 OEL 203 HDGA QH 27 OEL 29 LDCA QH 319 OEL 354 So far Hughes surrenders more high danger chances in slightly more TOI and lets be honest the MAJOR bulk of his TOI is in the ozone and OEL’s is in the dzone. Oooh this is my favourite LOW DANGER GOALS AGAINST QH 4 OEL 14 CLEARLY THATS A GOALIE ISSUE. Not making the easy saves OR they are shots coming from an area of the ice defensemen are not responsible for. Offensive zone starts QH 132 OEL 105 Further adding to my point QH spends more of his icetime further from the net. Defensive zone starts QH 101 OEL 123 oZS% QH 56.65% OEL 46.05% dzone faceoffs QH 262 OEL 313 51 more faceoffs in the dzone for OEL. How about the PK??? Seeing how QH is this almighty defensive shutdown second coming of Lidstrom that you believe him to be and OEL is a pylon PK TOI QH 50:09 OEL 55:46 GA QH 10 OEL 15 Before you get all excited, just remember… its about breaking down that number further to gain a true representation of what is actually happening. xGA QH 9.03 OEL 6.04 What happened bro?? OEL has more time short handed and less xGA than Hughes?? scoring chances against? QH 56 OEL 53 looking worse and worse for Hughes short handed as it did at 5v5 HDCA - (high danger chances against just so you fully understand) QH 31 OEL 21 oooooooh yikes. My argument looks better and better the further this goes. HDGA QH 4 OEL 5 looks like QH had his bacon saved quite a few times in those 31 attempts. LDCA QH 31 OEL 29 LDGA QH 2 OEL 5 3 more low danger goals allowed by garbage goaltending and you still think OEL is responsible. Yet when breaking down their time spent in the Dzone OEL plays far more minutes than QH yet Hughes is allowing nearly the same or greater chances etc which would indicate that teams need less time to score goals or get chances when QH is in the dzone than when OEL is in the dzone. If you truly think that all 970 mins of QH 5v5 time from game 1 to game 52 that he played were all in the dzone, you should probably stay off the forums and stop embarrassing yourself. How long did that post take you? Time well spent I see Uh...you're the one trying to argue for OEL's value by comparing his defensive numbers to those of Hughes. I personally think the idea of comparing the two is absolutely moronic...they don't even belong in the same species BTW...offensive/defensive zone starts account for a small fraction of shifts, most of which start on the fly. Throw around all the numbers you want - did you watch the games? OEL had awful gap control, let guys glide into the zone, defended rushes horribly, lost races to pucks, couldn't move the puck and got hemmed in his zone as a result. That's why Dom's GSVA model has Hughes as +1 defensive impact and OEL at -5. I'll let you guess who has the higher offensive impact. As I said a long time ago, you have to look at OVERALL contribution. You're arguing for OELs value by comparing him to the least valuable part of Hughes' contributions. Well done . But...oh hey...ARE WE STILL COMPARING OEL TO HUGHES??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduce39 Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 10 hours ago, AnthonyG said: Those 3 “random” numbers are a far greater problem. -27.51 is Spencer Martins GSAA in all situations for the whole season. He had the worst GSAA in the entire league. He played 29 games. Thats basically 1 bad goal per game. -11.63 is Delia’s GSAA for the season in 20GP one bad goal every other game. He ranked 16th worst. -10.12 is Demko’s GSAA leading up to his injury, which had him ranked as the 3rd worst GSAA. In a total of 15GP. But OELs defensive numbers are what concerned you… lol his job isnt to make saves. His job is to shut down the opposition. Do you understand that you and many others focus on guys like OEL or Myers is turning a complete blind eye and gaslighting the actual problem? Blame the D all you want, when the worst stretch of hockey combined for -49.26GSAA in a combined 64GP you think OEL was the problem??? Not even Lidstrom would be able to save us. When speaking about Hughes vs OEL in their defensive contributions you cant even comprehend 1) Quality of competition (OEL takes on the tougher match ups which would result in higher chances of being scored on) 2) dZS% - Higher dZS% puts OEL at further risk of being scored on. Meanwhile Hughes is down in the o-zone far away from his own net, yet is still surrendering a pretty high amount 3) In less dzone time Hughes the opposition is scoring in fewer entries and time spent than when OEL is on the ice. 4) whos fault is it if the goal comes from the other side? 5) is it the dmans fault for soft goals? I would like to think you understand QH is not a shut down dman right? And if he isnt (which he is not) who does that leave as your shutdown pair? Because Schenn was stapled to Hughes to make up for his deficiencies. So that leaves OEL and or Myers in shut down roles Hey why dont we use a timeline that OEL was actually present for??? Not use a timeline where he was on IR and Demko returned and learned how to play goalie again? Something I was sarcastically trolling you about with your original timelines and your way of breaking it down as “comparable” Season opener to OEL’s injury QH 52GP OEL 54GP 5v5 TOI QH 970:10 OEL 908:36 So far lookin pretty close GA QH 44 OEL 59 ooooh yikes… not lookin good for OEL. Right? Lets look at their expected goals against to breakdown how much of those goals they were “at fault” xGA QH 44.16 - every single goal accounted for OEL 44.88 - 14 times our goalie let OEL down. SCA QH 447 OEL 454 HDCA QH 213 OEL 203 HDGA QH 27 OEL 29 LDCA QH 319 OEL 354 So far Hughes surrenders more high danger chances in slightly more TOI and lets be honest the MAJOR bulk of his TOI is in the ozone and OEL’s is in the dzone. Oooh this is my favourite LOW DANGER GOALS AGAINST QH 4 OEL 14 CLEARLY THATS A GOALIE ISSUE. Not making the easy saves OR they are shots coming from an area of the ice defensemen are not responsible for. Offensive zone starts QH 132 OEL 105 Further adding to my point QH spends more of his icetime further from the net. Defensive zone starts QH 101 OEL 123 oZS% QH 56.65% OEL 46.05% dzone faceoffs QH 262 OEL 313 51 more faceoffs in the dzone for OEL. How about the PK??? Seeing how QH is this almighty defensive shutdown second coming of Lidstrom that you believe him to be and OEL is a pylon PK TOI QH 50:09 OEL 55:46 GA QH 10 OEL 15 Before you get all excited, just remember… its about breaking down that number further to gain a true representation of what is actually happening. xGA QH 9.03 OEL 6.04 What happened bro?? OEL has more time short handed and less xGA than Hughes?? scoring chances against? QH 56 OEL 53 looking worse and worse for Hughes short handed as it did at 5v5 HDCA - (high danger chances against just so you fully understand) QH 31 OEL 21 oooooooh yikes. My argument looks better and better the further this goes. HDGA QH 4 OEL 5 looks like QH had his bacon saved quite a few times in those 31 attempts. LDCA QH 31 OEL 29 LDGA QH 2 OEL 5 3 more low danger goals allowed by garbage goaltending and you still think OEL is responsible. Yet when breaking down their time spent in the Dzone OEL plays far more minutes than QH yet Hughes is allowing nearly the same or greater chances etc which would indicate that teams need less time to score goals or get chances when QH is in the dzone than when OEL is in the dzone. If you truly think that all 970 mins of QH 5v5 time from game 1 to game 52 that he played were all in the dzone, you should probably stay off the forums and stop embarrassing yourself. That’s actually pretty interesting because by the eye test OEL was really running out of steam before he was shut down for the year. I remember earlier in the season thinking he was catching way too much flak for poor goaltending though. In any case, here’s hoping he bounces back physically and looks a lot better with Tocchet / Demko. He did look fairly dangerous in the o zone this season - in particular I found he was deliberately trying to set up tip-in chances and finding a lot of success. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougieL Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 3 hours ago, Coconuts said: Why don't we just trade OEL and Garland for players with a single season remaining, a 1st, a 2nd, and a 7th smh That sounds like a great trade! Where did you come up with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 10 minutes ago, dougieL said: That sounds like a great trade! Where did you come up with this? I've got this friend named Tim Fenning and he assures me that this sort of deal could be made 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougieL Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 6 minutes ago, Coconuts said: I've got this friend named Tim Fenning and he assures me that this sort of deal could be made Make sure Tim has has some of OEL's buddies in his ear assuring him that OEL takes full responsibility for his poor play and that he does all the things that help a team win. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, dougieL said: How long did that post take you? Time well spent I see Uh...you're the one trying to argue for OEL's value by comparing his defensive numbers to those of Hughes. I personally think the idea of comparing the two is absolutely moronic...they don't even belong in the same species BTW...offensive/defensive zone starts account for a small fraction of shifts, most of which start on the fly. Throw around all the numbers you want - did you watch the games? OEL had awful gap control, let guys glide into the zone, defended rushes horribly, lost races to pucks, couldn't move the puck and got hemmed in his zone as a result. That's why Dom's GSVA model has Hughes as +1 defensive impact and OEL at -5. I'll let you guess who has the higher offensive impact. As I said a long time ago, you have to look at OVERALL contribution. You're arguing for OELs value by comparing him to the least valuable part of Hughes' contributions. Well done . But...oh hey...ARE WE STILL COMPARING OEL TO HUGHES??? I did that on my 2 15 min breaks at work. Lmao compared to 2 months of your own personal time which those are PAID 15 min breaks. Pretty sure you’re the one who dragged this convo back up? You’re like a jealous ex girlfriend. Draggin up things from the past non-stop. Get over it we are done, you got dumped a looooong time ago. Lmao how long did it take you to post 2 numbers? Lmfao BTW almost all on the fly starts are heading into the offensive zone, but I guess you werent aware of that. The only other on the fly starts would he injuries/broken blade/bad changes going into the dzone. Zone starts is a CLEAR indicator of where the team values you. Clearly Hughes is not valued in the dzone. okay so overall contributions offensively Hughes>OEL defensively OEL>Hughes its also interesting how when OEL works the point on the PP we get more shots through and create more chances just from his ability to get shots through traffic. Or did you even watch the games? If you cant figure out that OEL is better defensively and more well rounded than Hughes, with all the data shown, you are a lost cause well beyond help. P.S. incase you were wondering how long this took me…this reply was while I was taking a sh*t. Thats how I value your time, I wont spend a single second (or 2 months like you) of my own personal time replying to someone like yourself. Edited May 24, 2023 by AnthonyG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklehead44 Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 On 5/24/2023 at 8:57 AM, AnthonyG said: I did that on my 2 15 min breaks at work. Lmao compared to 2 months of your own personal time which those are PAID 15 min breaks. Pretty sure you’re the one who dragged this convo back up? You’re like a jealous ex girlfriend. Draggin up things from the past non-stop. Get over it we are done, you got dumped a looooong time ago. Lmao how long did it take you to post 2 numbers? Lmfao BTW almost all on the fly starts are heading into the offensive zone, but I guess you werent aware of that. The only other on the fly starts would he injuries/broken blade/bad changes going into the dzone. Zone starts is a CLEAR indicator of where the team values you. Clearly Hughes is not valued in the dzone. okay so overall contributions offensively Hughes>OEL defensively OEL>Hughes its also interesting how when OEL works the point on the PP we get more shots through and create more chances just from his ability to get shots through traffic. Or did you even watch the games? If you cant figure out that OEL is better defensively and more well rounded than Hughes, with all the data shown, you are a lost cause well beyond help. P.S. incase you were wondering how long this took me…this reply was while I was taking a sh*t. Thats how I value your time, I wont spend a single second (or 2 months like you) of my own personal time replying to someone like yourself. If he can be as good as he was his first year here with a solid partner like Bear or Hronek I think he won't be such a burden. He does play tough minutes. With Bear his numbers were alright it was with Schenn and Myers he really struggled. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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