Coyotes lose vote for new arena - future unclear

[The Arrogant Worms]

Five reasonable destinations for the Arizona Coyotes (and one pipe dream)

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/five-reasonable-destinations-for-the-arizona-coyotes-and-one-pipe-dream/

[Ghostsof1915]

54 minutes ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

The Quebec Remparts had 18,000 ppl watching junior playoff hockey. Plus Quebec is better than Winnipeg.

 

This isn't even a contest. But whatever. 

Lets move Quebec City to Vancouver Island. Then it will be on the West Coast. Problem solved.

[Coconuts]

3 hours ago, mll said:

They thought it was going to be a landslide victory and barely campaigned they were so confident they'll win.  

The atmosphere at the Four Peaks tasting room in Tempe was festive on Tuesday night. The Tempe Wins campaign and its supporters were confident that good news was coming in the special election that would decide the fate of the Coyotes’ proposed arena and entertainment district along the south bank of the Salt River. They were confident that two-plus decades of instability were about to end.

 

Former Tempe Mayor Neil Giuliano was there. Current councilmembers Randy Keating, Jennifer Adams and Berdetta Hodge and former councilmember Onni Shekerjian were there. Former Cardinals quarterback John Skelton was there. So were Coyotes officials and a host of community business leaders.

 

Buoyed by internal polling, multiple sources predicted somewhere between 56 and 57 percent support for the franchise’s proposal that would transform a long-standing dump site into a sprawling development, replete with an arena, hotels, restaurants, shops and residences.

 

When the first batch of votes from Maricopa County was posted on a large screen at the front of the venue at 8 p.m., the fantasy evaporated into hard data. The party became a funeral. 

 

This wasn’t a close election as some sources had predicted. This was a whipping so thorough that the second batch of unreleased votes was rendered insignificant. So were all of the rehearsed victory speeches.

“We are very disappointed Tempe voters did not approve Propositions 301, 302 and 303,” Coyotes President and CEO Xavier A. Gutierrez said. “As Tempe Mayor Corey Woods said, it was the best sports deal in Arizona history. What is next for the franchise will be evaluated by our owners and the National Hockey League over the coming weeks.”

 

With that, Gutierrez departed without taking any questions from reporters. So did many of the dignitaries, leaving a skeleton crew searching for answers.

NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman did not offer any more insight in a prepared statement. When reached by text message on Tuesday night, it was clear that he was also stunned by the results.

 

The only thing clear after Tuesday night is that the Coyotes arena proposal is dead. And that chilling reality raises a host of questions.

 

Do Coyotes have Plan B?

Very early in this process, Gutierrez was asked if he had a backup plan. He admitted that it would be irresponsible not to have one, but there has been nothing more than speculation about those possibilities because the Coyotes have been so focused on Tempe. 

(...)

 

Are Coyotes out of time?

The problem with all of those Plan Bs is that they would take time to organize. The Tempe deal was at least a couple years in the making, if you discount work by the previous ownership group on a similar deal. The Coyotes were already slated to play three more seasons at ASU’s Mullett Arena if the Tempe deal went through. It is difficult to imagine the league signing off on even more seasons there.

 

The NHL Board of Governors is not happy with that arrangement and its impact on league revenue. The NHL Players’ Association is not happy that its players are competing and training in substandard facilities while Mullet’s shortcomings are also impacting overall league revenue. You can almost imagine the myriad phone calls that Bettman is fielding today from influential sources to offer a simple message: “Enough!”

 

In past moments of crisis when the Coyotes’ fate was uncertain, Bettman always reassured the Arizona market that the league was committed to a future here. On Tuesday night, it was telling that Bettman offered no such assurances. Perhaps that was because he was caught off guard by the news. Perhaps it was because he no longer could offer such assurances after two-and-a half decades of unrequited love, and in the face of mounting pressure from league owners and the PA. 

 

How did the Coyotes so badly misjudge the electorate?

In February, more than two months after the Tempe City Council unanimously approved sending the Coyotes’ proposal to a public vote, councilmember Randy Keating joined the PHNX Coyotes show to express his frustration over the lack of activity from the team and its campaign.

 

“There is such a thing as losing the narrative; losing the initiative,” Keating said. “Once you convince somebody that something is bad or something is good, then you have confirmation bias kick in so then it’s so much harder to [change their minds].”

 

Keating was not alone in his belief that the Coyotes and Tempe Wins were slow to get going and weak in their efforts to match the Tempe 1st opposition, which was off and rolling in December. It was a belief that permeated the city council and city staff. It was a belief shared by election experts in the Valley. It was a belief that continued all the way to voting day.

 

Gutierrez said all along that the team’s late rollout was planned after the holidays and the Super Bowl to keep the issue “top of mind” with voters as the vote drew closer, but critics wondered if the campaign simply got outsmarted and outspent by an opposition group that adopted a poor-man’s persona but was, in reality, heavily backed by unions, some out of state.

 

There was a steady flow of misinformation from Tempe 1st, and a fair amount of hidden agendas in what was often a disingenuous campaign. But that’s politics. You play to win the game, and that’s what the often fact-free rhetoric accomplished.

 

As noted previously, the team’s own polling suggested that it had as large as a 10-point lead heading into vote day. If that is, in fact, what the firm that the Coyotes hired found then that firm’s credibility is gone. The results were the exact opposite of what team and city sources expected. Tuesday’s vote party became a massive embarrassment for the team and its broad coalition of supporters that included all former mayors, all current councilmembers and almost all former councilmembers.

 

“In my experience, municipal polling is exponentially harder than statewide, especially in a city the size of Tempe,” data analyst Garrett Archer said before the vote. “If I were to poll I think it would cost upwards of $50,000 just to get a good sample. Which is insane.”

 

It’s unclear what the Coyotes spent on polling, but they clearly did not uncover an accurate sample.

 

Why did the vote have to go to referendum?

This question has come up again and again. The simple answer is that the Coyotes knew this deal was going to be challenged by unions and opposition groups, who would have easily gathered the signatures required to send it to referendum. 

 

Per Arizona referendum law, had the team waited for that eventuality, the required 180-day window would have pushed the vote to August. The Coyotes wanted to speed up the timeline to speed up their move into their new home.

 

Not all election experts agreed with that decision.

 

“There were multiple steps for the anti folks before a referendum,” said Kathren Coleman, a political and communications consultant for two decades who served as deputy recorder for communications under Maricopa County Recorder Adrian Fontes, and also worked for former Tempe Mayor Neil Giuliano. “All the work would have been on the anti campaign. I don’t know who advised the Coyotes to pursue this path electorally, but they were poorly advised by a campaign operative.”

 

 

These folks were so sure that taxpayers were going to subsidize a billion dollar hockey league and a wealthy ownership group that they've been completely blindsided.

 

Big ups to Tempe. 

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

If the Coyotes move, what are the odds Gary retires soon after?

He doesn't retire, he's just finally made vulnerable and succumbs to the deal he made with the devil 

 

The Arizona Coyotes are his horcrux 

[DrJockitch]

Ugh. Utah. I guess that is one way of making Winnipeg and Edmonton look better. 

[johngould21]

3 hours ago, Gurn said:

And 

Bruce McNall

Nelson Skalbiania

Tom Scallen

Tom Scallen, McNall, Skalbania, yep, they're right up there with the best of them. The wall of shame.

[johngould21]

3 hours ago, King Heffy said:

Wasn't Tampa Bay owned by the Yakuza at some point?

That might be true too.

[MaxVerstappen33]

58 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

Ugh. Utah. I guess that is one way of making Winnipeg and Edmonton look better. 

I would say they are the favorite at this point. After listening and reading about this all day, Salt Lake city is the favorite.

 

The NHL is the most high on Houston. But the Houston group wasn't. The last time they met , they low balled the NHL. So that's good. 

[canuck73_3]

6 hours ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

Why is Hamilton such a no-go zone because the Leafs wont allow it. But Dallas will supposedly be totally fine with Houston ? Another glaring contradiction that shows the bias for US teams. The NHL decides on cities it wants and then makes up reasons why other cities wont work.

Oh of course we cant have Hamilton. Dilution bruh. But Houston wants a team? Coming right up....

 

What a joke. 

They’re not going east regardless, neither Columbus or Detroit want any part of being in the Western Conference again. 
 

Choices are basically Salt Lake , Houston, Portland, Kansas. 

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[Coconuts]

2 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

[MaxVerstappen33]

https://twitter.com/rwesthead/status/1468751889231757323?s=20

 

How much $$ has the NHL left on table by remaining committed to Phoenix? Forbes reported today Coyotes lost estimated $33M in 2021 & have lost a combined $141.6M over past 10 years. Sports bankers I've talked to over the years have said they're at a loss to understand NHL logic.

Edited May 18, 2023 by MaxVerstappen33

[MaxVerstappen33]

1 hour ago, canuck73_3 said:

They’re not going east regardless, neither Columbus or Detroit want any part of being in the Western Conference again. 
 

Choices are basically Salt Lake , Houston, Portland, Kansas. 

That has nothing to do with the point I was making. And I said on this page that Salt Lake is favorite.

Edited May 18, 2023 by MaxVerstappen33

[Provost]

17 hours ago, nuckin_futz said:

100% the Yotes are moving to Houston.

 

These are the top US TV markets.

• New York (#1)
• Los Angeles (#2)
• Chicago (#3)
• Philadelphia (#4)
• Dallas-Fort Worth (#5)
• Atlanta (#6)
• Houston (#7)
• Washington, D.C. (Hagerstown) (#8)
• Boston (Manchester) (#9)
• San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose (#10)
• Phoenix (Prescott) (#11)
• Seattle-Tacoma (#12)
• Tampa-St. Petersburg (Sarasota) (#13)
• Detroit (#14)
• Minneapolis-St. Paul (#15)
• Denver (#16)
• Orlando-Daytona Beach-Melbourne (#17)
• Miami-Fort Lauderdale (#18)

Atlanta just doesn't work. So if you're leaving the 11th largest market, you're going to the 7th largest market. Plus hockey works in Dallas so why wouldn't it work in Houston? The Houston Rockets owner Tilman Fertitta has a net worth of 8.2 Billion dollars.

 

Forbes lists the Coyotes value at $450 Million. Now consider this is pretty much a fire sale so Fertitta can easily swing this and probably make himself a ton of money within 5-10 years and he's 65 years old so he has time to wait it out.

I am sure they want as large a TV market as possible, but don’t lose sight of the fact all markets aren’t created the same in terms of the popularity of hockey.  Minneapolis is going to get bigger ratings than Atlanta or Phoenix.

 

It is such a minor sport, that the total population isn’t anywhere near as important as the likely draw.  Vegas wasn’t a big market, but with no other major league sports, and a visitor pool of fans it works.

[Provost]

1 hour ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

It is not going to be his choice in the end.  
 

With revenue sharing, other owners are subsidizing them. It is also a drag on league revenues so the owners and NHLPA have a vested interest in seeing that situation change.

 

It was one thing when there was a realistic chance of a new arena and a deep pocket owner who could turn it around.  There is no prospect of an end to Mullet arena debacle.

 

They are not going to get a better deal than what Tempe voted down.  It used almost no public money (just for roads and infrastructure).

 

Starting a new option from the beginning means that if everything went perfectly, they are still 4-5 years away from an arena being built.  Most likely it would be another year or two of planning and public votes only to have it fail.

[nuckin_futz]

29 minutes ago, Provost said:

I am sure they want as large a TV market as possible, but don’t lose sight of the fact all markets aren’t created the same in terms of the popularity of hockey.  Minneapolis is going to get bigger ratings than Atlanta or Phoenix.

 

It is such a minor sport, that the total population isn’t anywhere near as important as the likely draw.  Vegas wasn’t a big market, but with no other major league sports, and a visitor pool of fans it works.

True but in Houston they have a market with a history of hockey unlike when they gambled on Phoenix. It's not that big a stretch to think Houston will be successful.

[MaxVerstappen33]

Bettman doesn't like hard bargaining from anyone that he doesn't think has power. That's how TSN lost its hockey rights if I understand right. 

 

I have a feeling this Houston owner is more positive about getting NHL hockey than he's letting on. But he's just bargaining. And Bettman won't like that one bit. He'll opt for Salt lake just to stick it to him. 

[Pure961089]

Whoever gets Arizona is going to have a pretty talented club in a few years. The fans that suffered through years of pain lose again with no payoff. Similar the the Nordiques Fans.  Imagine investing in a team for 25 years waiti g for that big payoff only to have your team move to an undeserving market 

[PistolPete13]

7 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Doesn't Toronto own the territorial rights in that area?  Hamilton is only like a 90-minute drive to Toronto.  I thought that was the main issue with moving a team to Hamilton.

 

Houston is 4 hours away from Dallas.  San Antonio is even closer.  They all have NBA teams, so I don't see an issue with saturating the market there.  Dallas/Houston would make a great rivalry...

Not to mention the proximity of Hamilton to Buffalo.

 

I am all for a team in Houston.

 

 

 

[Alflives]

34 minutes ago, Pure961089 said:

Whoever gets Arizona is going to have a pretty talented club in a few years. The fans that suffered through years of pain lose again with no payoff. Similar the the Nordiques Fans.  Imagine investing in a team for 25 years waiti g for that big payoff only to have your team move to an undeserving market 

Similar to how Colorado was gifted a great young team. Love to see the Coyotes go to QC.  And they embarrass the z Habs multiple times a year.