Trevor Linden Hockey Hall of Fame?

[canucklehead44]

The Sedins are HHOF worthy

- franchise leaders in points

- Henrik #2 in all time points for a 3rd overall pick (Daniel #5)

- Both over 1,000 point milestone

- Daniel: 5 time Allstar (including 1st team allstar), king Clancy, Ted Lindsay, Art Ross

-Henrik: 5 time Allstar (including 2X 1st team allstar), 2X king Clancy, Ted Lindsay, Art Ross, Hart Memorial, sporting news player of the year 

 

Individually you can make an argument but given they are twins and what they accomplished together they have to be a lock IMO.

 

Linden is amazing but he just isn’t at the same level career wise.

[IBatch]

14 hours ago, Slegr said:

Part of me thinks the NHL will need to start changing its criteria for hockey hall of fame. Back 30 years ago, there were fewer teams and better odds that players would win a cup. Now there are 32 teams, and lots of superstar types won’t win a cup. Linden was an amazing playoff performer, and that should count for something.

I'm sure they will have too.   Part of that is they will have to let in some others on the way - they started to let in longevity over actual ability awhile ago, which could give guys like Marleau a chance.   Brinda'aMour too.    There was a time when 400 goals and 1000 points was more or less a lock.   Theo Fleury is another guy.    To me Linden and Kirk Muller were similar - both leaders, C's, both amped it up when it mattered and similar stats.     I don't think anyone is actually saying he will ever make the HHOF - but there was a time that they actually predicted he would.   I have literature from the early 90's saying as much.   Same with a few others that didn't make it - some that did like Modano and Leetch.     In the end he had a very long career, was massively respected by his peers too.   A great leader. 

 

Hope he comes back at some point, and gets his name on a cup as part of the team in some respect.   Coaching would be cool.   The Sedins will for sure make the HHOF, they changed the game with their cycle game,  we're top players in the league for a short while, and like Linden very good for about the other half.  

[Silky mitts]

18 hours ago, CanuckGAME said:

Not even close.

This

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, canucklehead44 said:

The Sedins are HHOF worthy

- franchise leaders in points

- Henrik #2 in all time points for a 3rd overall pick (Daniel #5)

- Both over 1,000 point milestone

- Daniel: 5 time Allstar (including 1st team allstar), king Clancy, Ted Lindsay, Art Ross

-Henrik: 5 time Allstar (including 2X 1st team allstar), 2X king Clancy, Ted Lindsay, Art Ross, Hart Memorial, sporting news player of the year 

 

Individually you can make an argument but given they are twins and what they accomplished together they have to be a lock IMO.

 

Linden is amazing but he just isn’t at the same level career wise.

Henrik has a case to go into the Hall ahead of Daniel .... wouldn't that be something we could all b!tch about lol...

 

I think the Sedins won't be first team ballot guys and will have to wait.   I could be wrong.   To me the only guys playing right now or retired recently, are Thornton, Crosby and Ovi - that's it.  Even Luongo should wait a couple years. 

Edited September 12, 2021 by IBatch

[IBatch]

As for snubs: 

 

1.  Turgeon

2.   Roenick

3.   Fluery ... 455 goals, over a PPG, half in the dead puck era 5'6" - smaller then Martin St. Louis and has a cup too....

4.  Mogilny (kind of get his snub but wow some great seasons and a cup)

5.  Tkachuk 

 

All of these guys have a solid case if not a complete lock, over the Sedins, and two have cups.   If Sundin got in... then why not them?  Never won a cup either.  Or individual hardware - Mogilny had one of the best rookie seasons ever ... There are a couple others like Rod the Bod... Alfie ... etc.   If the Sedins get in before them, it's a bit of a recency bias.    These guys also toiled in the dead puck era for significant parts of their careers. 

[Crabcakes]

17 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Love him.  Always be our guy.  No chance he ever sniffs the hall unless it's as a builder or manager

The manager ship has sailed.   

[Crabcakes]

16 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

There is the back to back Memorial Cups, and the Gold Medal in 1988 Team Canada. 

He would win every level except the NHL. 

 

The problem isn't he wasn't a good player or good person. 

It's the bar to get into the Hall of Fame is damn high.

However, Trev's numbers slaughter Dick Duff. 

But Duff's 6 cups is what put him in the Hall.

So it depends on your criteria. And the Hall seems to favour Stanley Cups. 

 

Um, Linden was a good player and is a good person.  Not sure why you felt the need to say that.  I agree with the rest

 

He's not Hall of Fame material.  The jersey retirement was because of what he meant to the team both on and off the ice.  His drafting marked a turning point for the Canucks at the beginning of the Pat Quinn era

[Primal Optimist]

No HHoF for Trevor Linden. His only claim to fame would be that he played hurt in the finals and possibly cost us the cup by not having another healthy body in the lineup. I know I am in a minority of Van Fans who feel this way but he was never my guy on the Canucks. I feel he cost us a cup by playing extremely below healthy levels. 

[Patel Bure]

23 hours ago, Nucks89 said:

Trevor retired 13 years ago. No mention of him getting enshrined into the Hall of Fame in Toronto.

 

A) Are you surprised by this?

 

B. Do you think Trevor will ever be enshrined?

Don’t think he has the numbers.  While Linden was an awesome player from 1989-1996, he was fairly mediocre afterwards unfortunately.  I don’t think he was quite the same player after his knee surgery in 96’ and I think Keenan/Not playing in Vancouver kind of broke his heart.  By the time he came back here, he was getting old.

 

Linden is a hockey legend in Vancouver and is the exact type of guy that you’d want to build around, but his presence in the hockey hall of fame would be a joke.

Edited September 12, 2021 by Patel Bure

[Patel Bure]

3 hours ago, Primal Optimist said:

No HHoF for Trevor Linden. His only claim to fame would be that he played hurt in the finals and possibly cost us the cup by not having another healthy body in the lineup. I know I am in a minority of Van Fans who feel this way but he was never my guy on the Canucks. I feel he cost us a cup by playing extremely below healthy levels. 

“Possibly cost us the cup by not having another healthy body in the line-up?”

 

Are you sure about that?  Linden had two goals in Game 7.  

[Patel Bure]

5 hours ago, IBatch said:

As for snubs: 

 

1.  Turgeon

2.   Roenick

3.   Fluery ... 455 goals, over a PPG, half in the dead puck era 5'6" - smaller then Martin St. Louis and has a cup too....

4.  Mogilny (kind of get his snub but wow some great seasons and a cup)

5.  Tkachuk 

 

All of these guys have a solid case if not a complete lock, over the Sedins, and two have cups.   If Sundin got in... then why not them?  Never won a cup either.  Or individual hardware - Mogilny had one of the best rookie seasons ever ... There are a couple others like Rod the Bod... Alfie ... etc.   If the Sedins get in before them, it's a bit of a recency bias.    These guys also toiled in the dead puck era for significant parts of their careers. 

Alex Mogilny was one of the greatest players in the world when he wanted to be. His performance in 95-96 just might be the most overlooked and under appreciated season in Canucks history (although understandable given that Almo played like a floating turd while here after that). Roenick was up there as well in the early 90‘s. Very solid list iBatch.

Edited September 12, 2021 by Patel Bure

[Beefcake]

A big no to Trevor in the hall of fame. He was indeed a good player but he wasn't great enough to be a potential hall of famer.

[MikeyD]

Lol no. Nowhere close to deserving of it. 

[IBatch]

On 9/11/2021 at 6:15 PM, -AJ- said:

It is what matters most, but I still don't think it's close personally. He had one run past the second round and although it was great, I think if you're gonna focus on playoff performance as a metric, you'd want more playoff success. Linden's teams had a 45.97% win percentage in the NHL playoffs and although he stepped up his game in playoff times, I don't think it brings him close enough to compete with HHOF levels. Bo Horvat may end up in the same boat. He's shown that he can elevate his game in the playoffs, but I don't think he'll ever get into the Hall, even if he wins the Conn Smythe with 20 points in 21 games in a Cup win or something. You need more than one good run and the regular season matter too.

The Sedins had one run past the second round, and pre lockout we're considering going back to Sweden.  And one of their second rounds were involved largely in part to Luongo and because even an old Linden could still amp it up.    For sure the regular season matters too...without loser points i wonder how 93 matches up ... not terribly at least.   Linden won't ever make the HOF, but he was the best player we've had other then Bure come post season, better really given his first 80ish games matched up well.   Might be hard for younger fans to hear this, but he was the best we've had when it mattered the most so far.   Why folks still talk about him with reverence.   Can only hope EP and QHs could say the same my the time they are 26, have a lot of work to do to get there.   Retiring top 100 in scoring was no small thing, but also get it wasn't enough and won't ever be.   For now it's the best we've got though.   Better then Naslund, the Sedins and Bertuzzi et al come the second season.  

[Kurgom]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

The Sedins had one run past the second round, and pre lockout we're considering going back to Sweden.  And one of their second rounds were involved largely in part to Luongo and because even an old Linden could still amp it up.    For sure the regular season matters too...without loser points i wonder how 93 matches up ... not terribly at least.   Linden won't ever make the HOF, but he was the best player we've had other then Bure come post season, better really given his first 80ish games matched up well.   Might be hard for younger fans to hear this, but he was the best we've had when it mattered the most so far.   Why folks still talk about him with reverence.   Can only hope EP and QHs could say the same my the time they are 26, have a lot of work to do to get there.   Retiring top 100 in scoring was no small thing, but also get it wasn't enough and won't ever be.   For now it's the best we've got though.   Better then Naslund, the Sedins and Bertuzzi et al come the second season.  

Better than the Sedins? Come on old man, I like Linden too but Linden wasn't the most prolific offensive force in the league for 2-3 years. People really like to overrate this dudes play because he's a star child in terms of community outreach and demeanor. The Sedins didn't have anyone near Bure's level on their team, the closest was Luongo in net who wont help your playoff PPG or the other twin if you count it, and a twin isn't Bure either. Linden would not have been close to a PPG without playing with Bure, look at what happened when he was traded, look at how his career completely nosedived after he couldn't play with Bure. Now, he could have certainly had a better career if the Canucks didn't trade him and actually invested in him, and I'm not saying without Bure Linden would be considered a bum, but a lot of what Bure did is attributed to Linden because, especially in the 90's, people liked Canadian players a lot more than Russians.

 

Linden is the most average, okay player that people consider to be some sort of playoff menace because he was a good guy. Kind of crazy.

[Coconuts]

Nah, not even as the criteria for the hall becomes more modern. Some might argue the bar has been lowered, I figure it's just changed along with the game. 

 

The game has changed, you've got maybe a handful of guys each year who put up absurd numbers and they're still nothing like what players used to put up. Lot of players have hit 1k over the years, but it's more impressive than it used to be imo.  

 

Every once in a while you'll have someone blow up like Kucherov or McDavid, but by and large it's maybe a few players a season. 

 

Linden was a fantastic Canuck and he had a helluva career, but while he was a great player and many teams likely would have loved to have had him, he's not HOF material imo. 

Edited September 13, 2021 by Coconuts

[Ghostsof1915]

10 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

Um, Linden was a good player and is a good person.  Not sure why you felt the need to say that.  I agree with the rest

 

He's not Hall of Fame material.  The jersey retirement was because of what he meant to the team both on and off the ice.  His drafting marked a turning point for the Canucks at the beginning of the Pat Quinn era

Maybe I should clarify. It's not like he wasn't a good person or player. 

Trevor was awesome. Just other players have pushed the bar. 

That's all I mean. 

[Kevin Biestra]

5 hours ago, Kurgom said:

Better than the Sedins? Come on old man, I like Linden too but Linden wasn't the most prolific offensive force in the league for 2-3 years. People really like to overrate this dudes play because he's a star child in terms of community outreach and demeanor. The Sedins didn't have anyone near Bure's level on their team, the closest was Luongo in net who wont help your playoff PPG or the other twin if you count it, and a twin isn't Bure either. Linden would not have been close to a PPG without playing with Bure, look at what happened when he was traded, look at how his career completely nosedived after he couldn't play with Bure. Now, he could have certainly had a better career if the Canucks didn't trade him and actually invested in him, and I'm not saying without Bure Linden would be considered a bum, but a lot of what Bure did is attributed to Linden because, especially in the 90's, people liked Canadian players a lot more than Russians.

 

Linden is the most average, okay player that people consider to be some sort of playoff menace because he was a good guy. Kind of crazy.

 

Sorry but this post is nonsense and it just seems like you didn't witness any of it.

 

Linden had 70 points the season before Bure even arrived in the NHL.  And Linden's PPG didn't really go up much from there when Bure was around.  Linden generated his own offense and had since his rookie year where he was a Calder finalist.  He was also a point per game or higher in both of his playoffs before Bure was even on the team.

 

As to Linden better than the Sedins, in the playoffs he was absolutely unquestionably better than both Sedins.  There is really no argument about it if someone actually watched both sets of careers.

 

With respect to Linden after he was traded, all of that happened after he blew his knee out and his points per game was never the same after the injury.  This is evident in Linden's two seasons after blowing his knee out, before being traded and with Bure on the team, where his points per game is lower than it was with either the Islanders or Canadiens.  His points per game pre-injury and post-injury is night and day.  If you link Linden's scoring to Bure this directly you simply weren't watching before Bure arrived and perhaps not even while they were playing together.

 

Edited September 13, 2021 by Kevin Biestra

[Kevin Biestra]

16 hours ago, IBatch said:

As for snubs: 

 

1.  Turgeon

2.   Roenick

3.   Fluery ... 455 goals, over a PPG, half in the dead puck era 5'6" - smaller then Martin St. Louis and has a cup too....

4.  Mogilny (kind of get his snub but wow some great seasons and a cup)

5.  Tkachuk 

 

All of these guys have a solid case if not a complete lock, over the Sedins, and two have cups.   If Sundin got in... then why not them?  Never won a cup either.  Or individual hardware - Mogilny had one of the best rookie seasons ever ... There are a couple others like Rod the Bod... Alfie ... etc.   If the Sedins get in before them, it's a bit of a recency bias.    These guys also toiled in the dead puck era for significant parts of their careers. 

 

 

I think the Sedins are ahead of those guys except for Fleury and Mogilny where it's getting close.  I'd also have Bernie Nicholls ahead of Tkachuk or Roenick.

 

I think Sundin not only got in but was first ballot, but I also agree that he is pretty much on par with Turgeon if not a little behind even.  That was some Toronto home cooking.  I'd probably have him in the Hall but I wouldn't be in a hurry.

 

Honestly I'd probably look at Brian Propp, Dave Taylor, Rick Martin, Charlie Simmer, etc. before Alfredsson and I have no problem with Brind'Amour getting in under the longevity + accumulated scoring + captained a Cup team formula (Dave Andreychuk style).  We're seeing Selke trophies finally get some appreciation for people not named Bob Gainey.

 

The very next tier is Bobby Smith, Kirk Muller, Dale Hunter, Steve Larmer, Rick Middleton, Rick Tocchet, Neal Broten and probably Trevor Linden so everyone saying that even having a discussion about Linden is ridiculous is themselves being at least somewhat ignorant.

 

 

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

 

I think the Sedins are ahead of those guys except for Fleury and Mogilny where it's getting close.  I'd also have Bernie Nicholls ahead of Tkachuk or Roenick.

 

I think Sundin not only got in but was first ballot, but I also agree that he is pretty much on par with Turgeon if not a little behind even.  That was some Toronto home cooking.  I'd probably have him in the Hall but I wouldn't be in a hurry.

 

Honestly I'd probably look at Brian Propp, Dave Taylor, Rick Martin, Charlie Simmer, etc. before Alfredsson and I have no problem with Brind'Amour getting in under the longevity + accumulated scoring + captained a Cup team formula (Dave Andreychuk style).  We're seeing Selke trophies finally get some appreciation for people not named Bob Gainey.

 

The very next tier is Bobby Smith, Kirk Muller, Dale Hunter, Steve Larmer, Rick Middleton, Rick Tocchet, Neal Broten and probably Trevor Linden so everyone saying that even having a discussion about Linden is ridiculous is themselves being at least somewhat ignorant.

 

 

Hey nice to see you back - missed having you around.   Those are all good points - i agree the Sundin thing for sure had a big TO influence, sure he deserves to be there, but first ballot for the time and given who else was outside looking in, i agree if Turgeon keeps getting snubbed and if Sundin played on the same teams and all things being equal, maybe he'd also be outside looking in.   Virtually the same PPG, Turgeon a little higher - Sundin played 1/2 a season longer.    Both guys were considered very good, but never top of the class although Turgeon did have one more monster season then Sundin.   505 goals too...another guy who was almost in the Bure/Lindros catagory was Tim Kerr.   Almost certainly would have made the cut with 3 more boffo Kerr seasons.   Big scary dude too.   I always forget Nichols.   Guy was treated poorly by management, after his first WG wingman explosion, asked the GM if he should be worried if he bought a house - as in he won't be traded ... said you bet your safe go buy your house .... if not imagine he'd of had a ton more points at least and be a first ballot guy.   Also imagine WG would be well over 3000 points too lol.  

 

Good call on Alfie...but i do feel he was better for longer then the Sedins were.  Just didn't have the same explosive year they both did.    Always in the top ten during the 2000's just never (or rarely) a top player - like Sundin and Turgeon.    Hard to understand why everyone around him (Turgeon) got in - some without cups like Sundin.   Dale breaking his collar none was a moment i haven't forgotten.   What a mean bastard lol.