2021 Training Camp Thread

[Kootenay Gold]

8 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

So...Abbotsford then?

He might wind up there if he is not up to speed at the start of the season. That may not be a bad thing if he clears waivers and can really improve on the things that got him sent down. If that is the case (that he is sent down), he still has the rest of the season to turn it around. I have not given up on this player yet.

[knucklehead91]

25 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Juolevi is leaning more towards Bust than Boom, this was his chance to prove himself, and yet he didn't. Green sounded disappointed when he said Olli didn't do himself any favours (poor conditioning is my guess)

 

They might be done waiting for this guy to turn the corner, and I have doubts he plays for the Canucks any time soon, especially with Rathbone improving and all of the new D depth available. Rathbone, Hunt and Schenn should get ice time before Juolevi.  So, what happens to Juolevi?

 

Abbotsford or traded?

Okay so heres what we do….

1) let camp play out

If OJ proves to be NHL worthy and makes an argument to be in the NHL we send Rathbone down even if Rathbone is a bit better at the end of camp, because Rathbone does not require waivers where as OJ does. We show off OJ to the league We can either use him as an NHL player or as a trade chip for later in the season or even next season. Meanwhile Rathbone gets top 4 mins in the AHL continuing to develop. Once we move OJ if we move OJ, Rathbone comes up.
2) ITS THE BEGINNING OF TRAINING CAMP CAN WE NOT JUST LET CAMP FINISH BEFORE WE FREAK OUT?!? 
 This is what training camp is for, to see where your at and for you to TRAIN and get ready for the NHL regular season and thats why there are pre-season games to get teams into the rhythm of game flow before turning it on to the regular season. 

So you didnt show up to camp in as good of shape as the coach is pushing you. You werent ready, but how far off are you? Camp is more than 1 day and 1 bag skate. If you are not caught up to speed by the end of camp, you completely failed to show up for camp. If you are caught up and keeping up at the end of camp, you werent that far off.

 

People just take a freakin chill pill and I will too. Its still early in camp and OJ has a legitimate reason to be a little behind on his conditioning after the hell he has gone through the last few years. He also had the longest battle with COVID. How does a guy work on conditioning after working on rehabbing knees and back surgeries for a few years and then to get hit with COVID and lose a bunch of weight??

[Ihatetomatoes]

29 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

Okay so heres my beef with the “‘might be done waiting for this guy to turn the corner” idea.

 

How many fair opportunities has OJ been given and failed to show improvement? How long has he spent “developing”? 
He has had TWO knee surgeries and 1 back surgery in consecutive years. Does that sound like a guy who is not getting it and not turning a corner or a guy who has been developmentally stalled? Do you really want to give up on a guy who hasnt had a healthy break for a little length of time to actually prove hes an NHLer? I think there is a lot of unknown with OJ right now and I feel like it would be a gamble to send him down and hope he clears waivers and its likely a gamble another organization would look to take on a former 5th overall who has shown some promise but has had to rehab multiple serious surgeries before getting his chance to shine. Its a flat cap, teams need cheap options and need some depth on the back end. Montreal has no Weber and may look to snag a decent Dman to insert somewhere on the back end.

 

Id like everyone to just read this little article first before sh*tting all over OJ for one f***ing bag skate after having a really tough battle with COVID and who knows what kind of damage has been done to his lungs. 
 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/thecanuckway.com/2020/10/24/canucks-3-players-who-need-to-overcome-the-critics/amp/2/

 

 

The problem with OJ is that from the very 1st training camp he came to red flags were being raised when guys were blowing passed him. Immediately people were questioning if he was worth the 5th overall. Since then OJ has had injury after injury and has never really showed any reason to not have doubts in his ability to play and skate at an NHL level.

 

This isn't a case of a guy who shows incredible potential when he's healthy, this is a case of a guy who's shown glimpses occasionally of being an NHL level defender with his positioning but at almost every level he has played at since being drafted there have been question marks and excuses for his play. His skating for whatever reason just doesn't look NHL level and coming into camp looking like he hasn't been putting in the work to improve is not helping his chances

[FaninMex]

48 minutes ago, Squamfan said:

Oh baby, back to back busts in the top 5 a Jimbo and Weisbrod special 

Hey buddy, I missed your positivity. TO gonna win the Cup this year?

[Gawdzukes]

30 minutes ago, Ihatetomatoes said:

The problem with OJ is that from the very 1st training camp he came to red flags were being raised when guys were blowing passed him. Immediately people were questioning if he was worth the 5th overall. Since then OJ has had injury after injury and has never really showed any reason to not have doubts in his ability to play and skate at an NHL level.

 

This isn't a case of a guy who shows incredible potential when he's healthy, this is a case of a guy who's shown glimpses occasionally of being an NHL level defender with his positioning but at almost every level he has played at since being drafted there have been question marks and excuses for his play. His skating for whatever reason just doesn't look NHL level and coming into camp looking like he hasn't been putting in the work to improve is not helping his chances

I'm not sure where level headed responses belong but certainly not here. Be gone with your smart words you crafty magician. 

Edited September 26, 2021 by Gawdzukes

[knucklehead91]

10 minutes ago, Ihatetomatoes said:

The problem with OJ is that from the very 1st training camp he came to red flags were being raised when guys were blowing passed him. Immediately people were questioning if he was worth the 5th overall. Since then OJ has had injury after injury and has never really showed any reason to not have doubts in his ability to play and skate at an NHL level.

 

This isn't a case of a guy who shows incredible potential when he's healthy, this is a case of a guy who's shown glimpses occasionally of being an NHL level defender with his positioning but at almost every level he has played at since being drafted there have been question marks and excuses for his play. His skating for whatever reason just doesn't look NHL level and coming into camp looking like he hasn't been putting in the work to improve is not helping his chances

OJ looked decent this season and he was finally keeping healthy… until COVID. 
 

He has incredible potential… when he’s healthy… Has he been healthy? NO!

He shows glimpses of NHL defensive positioning. Does that sound like a guy whos improving? Somewhat yes I would say so. But he has also had very few glimpses in the NHL. So how can you say he only sometimes shows glimpses when he has only sometimes been given a glimpse in the NHL? Neither his time on ice or opportunity in the NHL have been given a good enough look.

 

His skating looks like it isnt NHL ready for some reason?? Uhmmmmm maybe the 2 knee surgeries and back surgery the past few years might have a bit to do with that. Knees and backs dont just fix themselves and heal over night, he has a lengthy road to get back to 100% if he will ever be 100% after fairly big surgeries.

Also, he doesnt look like he’s putting in the work? 
 

Olli Juolevi

Faith was lost by a lot of people when Olli Juoleviwas seriously injured on back-to-back years. Not only was he badly hurt both times, but he also needed surgery on each occasion. First, it was his back. It was a case of offseason training gone wrong that eventually forced him to go under the knife. The rehab has long and difficult and put him behind schedule for the following 2018-19 season.

Despite the critics, Juolevi shot out of a cannon and had himself a tremendous offensive start to that year. He posted 13 points in his first 18 games and looked better than ever. Unfortunately, he got injured yet again and it required him to get yet another serious surgery. This time, Juolevi’s promising season was ended with an operation to repair his knee.

 

After that, Juolevi did everything in his power to get back on track, but many people doubted his ability to actually be able to pull it off. One major surgery can be enough to end someone’s career in sports, how could be possibly survive having two? However, the determined Juolevi did his time in rehab and fought through additional hip soreness in order to keep pushing the needle forward.

He played 45 games for the Utica Comets in the AHL last year and he performed well above expectations when he joined the Canucks inside the Edmonton bubble. Green liked what he saw from Juolevi enough to dress him for his NHL debut. Juolevi played just over six minutes, didn’t make any mistakes and helped the Canucks eliminate the Minnesota Wild and punch their ticket into the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

“Juolevi looks ready to play in the NHL full-time,” said Jim Benning on Sportsnet 650.

 

 

[Dixon Ward]

5 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

OJ looked decent this season and he was finally keeping healthy… until COVID. 
 

He has incredible potential… when he’s healthy… Has he been healthy? NO!

He shows glimpses of NHL defensive positioning. Does that sound like a guy whos improving? Somewhat yes I would say so. But he has also had very few glimpses in the NHL. So how can you say he only sometimes shows glimpses when he has only sometimes been given a glimpse in the NHL? Neither his time on ice or opportunity in the NHL have been given a good enough look.

 

His skating looks like it isnt NHL ready for some reason?? Uhmmmmm maybe the 2 knee surgeries and back surgery the past few years might have a bit to do with that. Knees and backs dont just fix themselves and heal over night, he has a lengthy road to get back to 100% if he will ever be 100% after fairly big surgeries.

Also, he doesnt look like he’s putting in the work? 
 

Olli Juolevi

Faith was lost by a lot of people when Olli Juoleviwas seriously injured on back-to-back years. Not only was he badly hurt both times, but he also needed surgery on each occasion. First, it was his back. It was a case of offseason training gone wrong that eventually forced him to go under the knife. The rehab has long and difficult and put him behind schedule for the following 2018-19 season.

Despite the critics, Juolevi shot out of a cannon and had himself a tremendous offensive start to that year. He posted 13 points in his first 18 games and looked better than ever. Unfortunately, he got injured yet again and it required him to get yet another serious surgery. This time, Juolevi’s promising season was ended with an operation to repair his knee.

 

After that, Juolevi did everything in his power to get back on track, but many people doubted his ability to actually be able to pull it off. One major surgery can be enough to end someone’s career in sports, how could be possibly survive having two? However, the determined Juolevi did his time in rehab and fought through additional hip soreness in order to keep pushing the needle forward.

He played 45 games for the Utica Comets in the AHL last year and he performed well above expectations when he joined the Canucks inside the Edmonton bubble. Green liked what he saw from Juolevi enough to dress him for his NHL debut. Juolevi played just over six minutes, didn’t make any mistakes and helped the Canucks eliminate the Minnesota Wild and punch their ticket into the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

“Juolevi looks ready to play in the NHL full-time,” said Jim Benning on Sportsnet 650.

 

 

I am a fan of Juolevi.  I think he is better than most think.  I think he deserved more ice time last year.  He showed poise, positioning and made very few bad plays.  I, unlike many on here, have not written him off.  Nor do I think he can't be a really good nhl defenseman.  Everybody's rush to annoint Rathbone does not mean you have to cheer against Juolevi.  As a Canucks fan, I am rooting for both.

[Dazzle]

6 minutes ago, Dixon Ward said:

I am a fan of Juolevi.  I think he is better than most think.  I think he deserved more ice time last year.  He showed poise, positioning and made very few bad plays.  I, unlike many on here, have not written him off.  Nor do I think he can't be a really good nhl defenseman.  Everybody's rush to annoint Rathbone does not mean you have to cheer against Juolevi.  As a Canucks fan, I am rooting for both.

Likewise. I don't understand why people are treating Juolevi the way they are doing now. He has great potential, despite his injuries.

[gizmo2337]

1 hour ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

I would also like to know this.

I looked it up, it's CH#626 on Shaw 6pm - NHL center ice. No idea if blackout - it better not be, or I'll be pissed! I don't get the blackout policy when you pay for the content. Those rules are Neanderthal thinking.

 

Sure it's pre-season, but I want to see some prospects that we might not otherwise see! And with hockey back in the evening it's Miller time!

[knucklehead91]

1 minute ago, Dixon Ward said:

I am a fan of Juolevi.  I think he is better than most think.  I think he deserved more ice time last year.  He showed poise, positioning and made very few bad plays.  I, unlike many on here, have not written him off.  Nor do I think he can't be a really good nhl defenseman.  Everybody's rush to annoint Rathbone does not mean you have to cheer against Juolevi.  As a Canucks fan, I am rooting for both.

And you know what I hope both succeed too. If we manage our assets appropriately and give OJ a legit chance he can either be an NHL dman for us and Rathbone can develop in the A for another year and he can come up next year full time. Or we can see trade OJ for a pick and not lose him on waivers potentially. We can maximize our assets. OJ could be a guy we showcase and move out and get another organizational need in a package deal. Or they both become NHL Dmen for us.
 

Like I just dont see why people are so impatient with a guy who has had to be so bloody patient with his own surgeries and rehabilitation. He hasnt had 4 years in the minors of doing sweet F all playing every game and not improving. If he had been playing lots but struggling, then ya move on from him. But this is not the case for OJ at all

We pretty much know what we have in Rathbone for the most part and even that is still debatable. 
We do not really know what we have in OJ.

[JoshuaGuy]

5 minutes ago, gizmo2337 said:

I looked it up, it's CH#626 on Shaw 6pm - NHL center ice. No idea if blackout - it better not be, or I'll be pissed! I don't get the blackout policy when you pay for the content. Those rules are Neanderthal thinking.

 

Sure it's pre-season, but I want to see some prospects that we might not otherwise see! And with hockey back in the evening it's Miller time!

Canucks have waived blackout restrictions because they're not broadcasting it.

 

[Sp3nny]

7 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

And you know what I hope both succeed too. If we manage our assets appropriately and give OJ a legit chance he can either be an NHL dman for us and Rathbone can develop in the A for another year and he can come up next year full time. Or we can see trade OJ for a pick and not lose him on waivers potentially. We can maximize our assets. OJ could be a guy we showcase and move out and get another organizational need in a package deal. Or they both become NHL Dmen for us.
 

Like I just dont see why people are so impatient with a guy who has had to be so bloody patient with his own surgeries and rehabilitation. He hasnt had 4 years in the minors of doing sweet F all playing every game and not improving. If he had been playing lots but struggling, then ya move on from him. But this is not the case for OJ at all

We pretty much know what we have in Rathbone for the most part and even that is still debatable. 
We do not really know what we have in OJ.

Interesting you say we know what we have in Rathbone, but not Juolevi, when Juolevi has played MORE games since 2018 than Rathbone, even with his injuries. If anything, we know LESS about Rathbone than Juolevi.

 

What we know of Juolevi is that he has had injury struggles, and they have affected his overall game. And the fact we haven't seen a major improvement in his play shows either those injuries are having a long term affect (to no fault of his own) or that he hasn't done a good enough job in rehabbing from those injuries. That idea also plays into the fact that he has struggled with his skating and pace of play whether it be in NHL games or in training camps.

 

Ya, some people are writing him off, but others are only raising legitimate concerns that started shortly after we drafted him. We're coming up on 6 years since his draft. On one hand, yes he should be given some slack since he has had some serious injuries. But on the other hand, there comes a time when expectations have to be met. We need go keep a balanced viewpoint of those ideas.

[VegasCanuck]

40 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

OJ looked decent this season and he was finally keeping healthy… until COVID. 
 

He has incredible potential… when he’s healthy… Has he been healthy? NO!

He shows glimpses of NHL defensive positioning. Does that sound like a guy whos improving? Somewhat yes I would say so. But he has also had very few glimpses in the NHL. So how can you say he only sometimes shows glimpses when he has only sometimes been given a glimpse in the NHL? Neither his time on ice or opportunity in the NHL have been given a good enough look.

 

His skating looks like it isnt NHL ready for some reason?? Uhmmmmm maybe the 2 knee surgeries and back surgery the past few years might have a bit to do with that. Knees and backs dont just fix themselves and heal over night, he has a lengthy road to get back to 100% if he will ever be 100% after fairly big surgeries.

Also, he doesnt look like he’s putting in the work? 
 

Olli Juolevi

Faith was lost by a lot of people when Olli Juoleviwas seriously injured on back-to-back years. Not only was he badly hurt both times, but he also needed surgery on each occasion. First, it was his back. It was a case of offseason training gone wrong that eventually forced him to go under the knife. The rehab has long and difficult and put him behind schedule for the following 2018-19 season.

Despite the critics, Juolevi shot out of a cannon and had himself a tremendous offensive start to that year. He posted 13 points in his first 18 games and looked better than ever. Unfortunately, he got injured yet again and it required him to get yet another serious surgery. This time, Juolevi’s promising season was ended with an operation to repair his knee.

 

After that, Juolevi did everything in his power to get back on track, but many people doubted his ability to actually be able to pull it off. One major surgery can be enough to end someone’s career in sports, how could be possibly survive having two? However, the determined Juolevi did his time in rehab and fought through additional hip soreness in order to keep pushing the needle forward.

He played 45 games for the Utica Comets in the AHL last year and he performed well above expectations when he joined the Canucks inside the Edmonton bubble. Green liked what he saw from Juolevi enough to dress him for his NHL debut. Juolevi played just over six minutes, didn’t make any mistakes and helped the Canucks eliminate the Minnesota Wild and punch their ticket into the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

“Juolevi looks ready to play in the NHL full-time,” said Jim Benning on Sportsnet 650.

 

 

Really pulling for him, he's faced incredible adversity after being drafted. He has incredible potential if he can just catch a break. He looked like he had finally put injuries behind him last year and then got HAMMERED by Covid. Losing 15 lbs is a lot to recover, and it is extremely possible that he is still struggling with the after effects of it. I know a LOT of people who are struggling with everything up to and including permanent brain damage.

 

Really hope he's able to overcome, yet again.

 

[Nucker 67]

Juolevi's off season.  My guess:  too much Fortnite,  not enough skating and conditioning

 

I have always rooted for Juolevi to make it, and he still might, but this camp was very telling. Rathbone left him in the dust. As a head coach, Green has to be upset how his camp went.  Not just the bag skate. The Canucks have good D depth now, so Juolevi's chance of being a regular Canuck is iffy IMO.

  

 

 

Edited September 26, 2021 by NUCKER67

[Captain Canuck #12]

26 minutes ago, JoshuaGuy said:

Canucks have waived blackout restrictions because they're not broadcasting it.

 

But you still have to have an NHL Centre Ice subscription (or whatever it's called) to watch it though, right?   Because I looked on the Shaw website and they have few free previews currently listed, but not NHL TV

Edited September 26, 2021 by Captain Canuck #12

[knucklehead91]

7 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

Really pulling for him, he's faced incredible adversity after being drafted. He has incredible potential if he can just catch a break. He looked like he had finally put injuries behind him last year and then got HAMMERED by Covid. Losing 15 lbs is a lot to recover, and it is extremely possible that he is still struggling with the after effects of it. I know a LOT of people who are struggling with everything up to and including permanent brain damage.

 

Really hope he's able to overcome, yet again.

 

Im sorry to hear you have lots of friends going through it. I know someone who was put on a medically induced coma and then had to be airlifted to Vancouver and was put on a heart and lung bypass machine. He has only recently been taken out of the coma. We have no idea how he will be and if he will ever make a full recovery

Edited September 26, 2021 by knucklehead91

[VegasCanuck]

2 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

Im sorry to hear you have lots of friends going through it. I know someone who was put on a medically induced coma and then had to be airlifted to Vancouver and was put on a heart and lung bypass machine. He has only recently been taken out of the coma. We have no idea how he will be and if he will ever make a full recovery

Yeah, its nuts. For the most part, BC has been really sheltered as far as Covid goes, most don't know what it can really do.

[knucklehead91]

19 minutes ago, Sp3nny said:

Interesting you say we know what we have in Rathbone, but not Juolevi, when Juolevi has played MORE games since 2018 than Rathbone, even with his injuries. If anything, we know LESS about Rathbone than Juolevi.

 

What we know of Juolevi is that he has had injury struggles, and they have affected his overall game. And the fact we haven't seen a major improvement in his play shows either those injuries are having a long term affect (to no fault of his own) or that he hasn't done a good enough job in rehabbing from those injuries. That idea also plays into the fact that he has struggled with his skating and pace of play whether it be in NHL games or in training camps.

 

Ya, some people are writing him off, but others are only raising legitimate concerns that started shortly after we drafted him. We're coming up on 6 years since his draft. On one hand, yes he should be given some slack since he has had some serious injuries. But on the other hand, there comes a time when expectations have to be met. We need go keep a balanced viewpoint of those ideas.

Based on everyones conclusions on Rathbone, I am speaking on the majority of people’s assumptions on Rathbone. Which is why I said “even thats debatable”

There is a good sense of Rathbone, there isnt a great sense of OJ imho. People are already pencilling Rathbone in and writing OJ off.

 

Which is why I keep saying over and over again, to let camp play out first before making any decisions or assumptions

Edited September 26, 2021 by knucklehead91

[iceman64]

On 9/20/2021 at 1:21 PM, RomanP said:

Just got tickets for the Saturday session. Let's hope Danila is still in at that time :-)

a.k.a Danny Klim?  Wait a minute... how about.. Dank? One could hope it would fit, maybe if Daniel helps him along for a skills coach session or 3, anyway Dank2? ok now I'm being silly but hoping! 

Edited September 26, 2021 by iceman64

[khay]

1 hour ago, Ihatetomatoes said:

The problem with OJ is that from the very 1st training camp he came to red flags were being raised when guys were blowing passed him. Immediately people were questioning if he was worth the 5th overall. Since then OJ has had injury after injury and has never really showed any reason to not have doubts in his ability to play and skate at an NHL level.

 

This isn't a case of a guy who shows incredible potential when he's healthy, this is a case of a guy who's shown glimpses occasionally of being an NHL level defender with his positioning but at almost every level he has played at since being drafted there have been question marks and excuses for his play. His skating for whatever reason just doesn't look NHL level and coming into camp looking like he hasn't been putting in the work to improve is not helping his chances

At this rate, OJ may very well end up as the worst 5th overall pick in a modern era, possibly even worse than Dal Colle.

 

Having said that, his injuries did prevent him from making progress in his career. 

 

At this point, I'm just hoping that he becomes a serviceable bottom pairing defender.