Elias Pettersson | Quinn Hughes - Contract Discussion Thread

[sonoman]

18 hours ago, 4petesake said:

I don’t think he was paid in CAD but rather the contract that he and his agent Ron Salcer originally agreed to sign was thought to be in USD when presented but turned out to be in CAD so he wouldn’t sign it.

 

After 17 months of negotiation, a five-year, $14.7-million contract — almost identical to the ones Sergei Fedorov and Alex Mogilny were signing in Detroit and Buffalo at the time — was agreed upon. 

Or at least Bure thought. 

When he sat down to sign it, he found the Canucks had put everything in Canadian funds when in fact Fedorov and Mogilny were getting U.S. funds. No NHL star ever signs a Canadian-funds deal and the Canucks knew this.

Plus the fact he had to make his own way to Vancouver, no one to meet or greet him?

['NucK™]

Lol, the Ranger are getting in on the action 

https://www.blueshirtbanter.com/2021/6/18/22533580/nhl-the-new-york-rangers-should-offer-sheet-elias-pettersson-jack-eichel

[-AJ-]

On 5/23/2021 at 6:25 AM, IBatch said:

What is a superstar?   What is a franchise player?     Read a great article on the word generational and even franchise being thrown around too often and it started with an explanation of what a superstar is by Ken Holland.    Basically a perennial first or second all-star team player.   Generational is taking that too a different level - as in the best player of a a generation not just by position but compared to the rest of the the superstars.   Patrick Kane and Ovi obviously are superstars as ended up perennial first and second all stars (firsts even better) most of their career -  but how do they really rank against Crosby who plays a more important position and style of game?   Can there be more then one player a generation?  Basically yes and no depending on that player and their impact.  

 

Generational, i suppose Ovi's one now (a player) after all his durability has put him in striking distance with Howe soon and won a cup.  But he's still no Crosby.   And he's not the best goal scorer ever (yet).   

 

Orr, (Espo? Potvin?), Gretzky, Mario, Jagr, Thornton? Crosby, Ovi .... (Bossy, Messier, Roy?) there can't be more then one maybe two a decade or so ...  next one McDavid as far as generational goes - as in "once a generation".    List could even be thinned down to Orr, Gretzky, Mario and just call the rest superstars.  Sakic, Forsberg, Lindros, Bure super-stars at least for a period of time. 

 

As for EP and QHs, they are both rising stars in this league.  BB and Horvat maybe still is too (a rising star), can't wait to see what he does with better wingers.    

 

League has a few superstars in it right now and believe both Crosby and Ovi would be the only ones that could be considered "generational".

 

As far as franchise players go any superstar is a franchise player.   As is quite a few stars that consistently do it as well.   PGP types. 

 

McDavid of course is making a statement he's also generational.   

I'd tend to agree people are too quick to label a player as generational, although the discussion is one of interest to me.

 

For my money, these are the players who have cemented themselves as generational (in rough chronological order):

 

1. Howe

2. Orr

3. Gretzky

4. Lemiuex

5. Jagr (gatekeeper)

6. Crosby

7. Ovechkin

 

I would say Jagr is the lowest level a guy can be to reach that high pedestal. Five Art Ross Trophies, three Lester B. Pearson (Ted Lindsay) trophies, one Hart and four 2nd place Hart finishes...pretty high standard to be the "worst" of the bunch.

 

McDavid is trending towards getting in, but he's got a way to go before I think he's written in. There's also a chance that MacKinnon makes a case, but he'll either need to step up his regular season game to win some Art Ross trophies or take home a Conn Smythe or two.

[JM_]

6 minutes ago, 'NucK™ said:

Lol, the Ranger are getting in on the action 

https://www.blueshirtbanter.com/2021/6/18/22533580/nhl-the-new-york-rangers-should-offer-sheet-elias-pettersson-jack-eichel

pretty solid run down of how good Petey is and how offer sheets work. 

 

I didn't know the NYR wanted to draft Petey. 

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

I'd tend to agree people are too quick to label a player as generational, although the discussion is one of interest to me.

 

For my money, these are the players who have cemented themselves as generational (in rough chronological order):

 

1. Howe

2. Orr

3. Gretzky

4. Lemiuex

5. Jagr (gatekeeper)

6. Crosby

7. Ovechkin

 

I would say Jagr is the lowest level a guy can be to reach that high pedestal. Five Art Ross Trophies, three Lester B. Pearson (Ted Lindsay) trophies, one Hart and four 2nd place Hart finishes...pretty high standard to be the "worst" of the bunch.

 

McDavid is trending towards getting in, but he's got a way to go before I think he's written in. There's also a chance that MacKinnon makes a case, but he'll either need to step up his regular season game to win some Art Ross trophies or take home a Conn Smythe or two.

The guys you listed all have Cups.  McDavid will need to win at least one Cup (as a core player) or he falls into the Dionne category of great player for his era, but not one of the all time greats.  

[Bure2Win]

On 5/20/2021 at 5:47 PM, tas said:

what's it like being you? I can only imagine terrible. 

Truth hurts sometimes.

[-AJ-]

9 minutes ago, Alflives said:

The guys you listed all have Cups.  McDavid will need to win at least one Cup (as a core player) or he falls into the Dionne category of great player for his era, but not one of the all time greats.  

30 years ago, I would've agreed, but in the modern era of hockey with 31 (soon 32) teams, I think it's unrealistic to expect all greats to win the Cup. That said, playoff performance is huge and McDavid will need to step it up to really be seriously considered. He has 22 points in 21 playoff games, which is good, but not good enough for a generational talent.

 

Ovechkin has 135 points in 141 games, but much of that was in a more defensive era. The same rings true with Crosby's era (the late 00s and early 2010s) and he has 191 points in 174 games.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, -AJ- said:

30 years ago, I would've agreed, but in the modern era of hockey with 31 (soon 32) teams, I think it's unrealistic to expect all greats to win the Cup. That said, playoff performance is huge and McDavid will need to step it up to really be seriously considered. He has 22 points in 21 playoff games, which is good, but not good enough for a generational talent.\

 

Ovechkin has 135 points in 141 games, but much of that was in a more defensive era. The same rings true with Crosby's era (the late 00s and early 2010s) and he has 191 points in 174 games.

McDavid, like Mackinnon, is great attacking with puck on stick.  Are these guys great when they don’t have the puck?  McDavid can definitely improve his game, so he uses his gifts to dominate with and without the puck.  

['NucK™]

15 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

pretty solid run down of how good Petey is and how offer sheets work. 

 

I didn't know the NYR wanted to draft Petey. 

Oh really? Yeah I think it was a pretty well known fact because there was talk about how the Canucks should have traded down to draft Petey but that wouldn't have worked because the Rangers would've 100% snagged him at #7. Not trying to be a dick or anything.. just FYI 

[-AJ-]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

McDavid, like Mackinnon, is great attacking with puck on stick.  Are these guys great when they don’t have the puck?  McDavid can definitely improve his game, so he uses his gifts to dominate with and without the puck.  

Absolutely agree. One of the incredible things about Crosby is that he became very capable defensive forward as well. I'd argue he's probably about top 15 "Selke"-like forwards in the NHL most years. In fact, he has four top 10 Selke finishes in his career so far, peaking at 4th in 2018-19.

[IBatch]

15 minutes ago, Alflives said:

The guys you listed all have Cups.  McDavid will need to win at least one Cup (as a core player) or he falls into the Dionne category of great player for his era, but not one of the all time greats.  

I compared McDavid to Hawerchuk for now and for flamed for it.   If it wasn't for WG and Mario him and Stastny would have gone toe to toe for the best offensive player in the 80's on not so great teams.   On great teams they'd have done even better, hence again the comp.   Yes Bossy maybe for goals, and yes a few other guys had boffo seasons but we're one offs or, quite literally connected to WG (Kurri and Blondie in LA, and one Yzerman explosion). 

 

Fact is there are a ton of players a level down from these guys but are quite aways down.   Messier, Sakic, Forsberg, Selanne, Sundin, Bure, Lidbros etc.   I agree Alf.   Dionne was second fiddle to Laflauer, but in his own words " I would have scored 1000 goals playing on that team" ... for sure the best never to win a cup.   Hawerchuk and Lafontaine, Oats...Gilmour even.   There are a lot of guys that didn't win .. Thornton in the current generation of guys.   As for AJs list, if your going to include Howe pretty much have to include Richard too. 

Edited June 18, 2021 by IBatch

[Alflives]

Just now, -AJ- said:

Absolutely agree. One of the incredible things about Crosby is that he became very capable defensive forward as well. I'd argue he's probably about top 15 "Selke"-like forwards in the NHL most years. In fact, he has four top 10 Selke finishes in his career so far, peaking at 4th in 2018-19.

The thing is a guy like McDavid is so gifted he could be the Selke, Hart, Richard, and Art Ross winner.  

[-AJ-]

11 minutes ago, IBatch said:

I compared McDavid to Hawerchuk for now and for flamed for it.   If it wasn't for WG and Mario him and Stastny would have gone toe to toe for the best offensive player in the 80's on not so great teams.   On great teams they'd have done even better, hence again the comp.   Yes Bossy maybe for goals, and yes a few other guys had boffo seasons but we're one offs or, quite literally connected to WG (Kurri and Blondie in LA, and one Yzerman explosion). 

 

Fact is there are a ton of players a level down from these guys but are quite aways down.   Messier, Sakic, Forsberg, Selanne, Sundin, Bure, Lidbros etc.   I agree Alf.   Dionne was second fiddle to Laflauer, but in his own words " I would have scored 1000 goals playing on that team" ... for sure the best never to win a cup.   Hawerchuk and Laf, Oats...Gilmour even.   There are a lot of guys that didn't win .. Thornton in the current generation.    

People forget how good Hawerchuk was when he started out. Six of his first seven seasons were 100+ point years. He had 752 points in 559 games during that span.

 

That said, Hawerchuk was also much less decorated than McDavid. He won the Calder and finished 2nd in Hart voting once. McDavid has already won a Hart and probably wins another this year, in addition to three Art Ross trophies.

 

Removing Gretzky and Mario from the 80s does rise Hawerchuk up quite a bit, but I'm not sure he still be quite at McDavid's level. Looking from 1981-1988, he ranks 6th in points-per-game (Lemieux excluded). I suppose you can maybe try to write off Kurri (4th) for the Gretzky effect and we obviously took out Gretzky (1st) already. You mentioned Bossy (2nd) and Stastny (3rd) as contenders, though there's also Denis Savard (6th) to consider.

 

All in all, I think it's a stretch to say Hawerchuk is equivalent to McDavid--Stastny would be a closer comparable IMO, as Stastny seems like he was the better player and probably the 3/4 with Bossy behind Lemieux and Gretzky. And like McDavid (so far), he never won a Cup.

[IBatch]

9 minutes ago, Alflives said:

The thing is a guy like McDavid is so gifted he could be the Selke, Hart, Richard, and Art Ross winner.  

Kind of like Bobby Clarke at the tail end of his career.  Minus the Richard trophy.   It takes a lot of extra oomph to stand out against the crowd.   Not many players have ever done that before.   McDavid for sure is doing that right now. 

[IBatch]

1 minute ago, -AJ- said:

People forget how good Hawerchuk was when he started out. Six of his first seven seasons were 100+ point years. He had 752 points in 559 games during that span.

 

That said, Hawerchuk was also much less decorated than McDavid. He won the Calder and finished 2nd in Hart voting once. McDavid has already won a Hart and probably wins another this year, in addition to three Art Ross trophies.

 

Removing Gretzky and Mario from the 80s does rise Hawerchuk up quite a bit, but I'm not sure he still be quite at McDavid's level. Looking from 1981-1988, he ranks 6th in points-per-game (Lemieux excluded). I suppose you can maybe try to write off Kurri (4th) for the Gretzky effect and we obviously took out Gretzky (1st) already. You mentioned Bossy (2nd) and Stastny (3rd) as contenders, though there's also Denis Savard (6th) to consider.

 

All in all, I think it's a stretch to say Hawerchuk is equivalent to McDavid--Stastny would be a closer comparable IMO, as Stastny seems like he was the better player and probably the 3/4 with Bossy behind Lemieux and Gretzky. And like McDavid (so far), he never won a Cup.

Like McDavid, Hawerchuk toiled on a bit so great team.   And came in hot and didn't slow down for a long time.   It just goes to say how unbelievable WG was - the most dominant player in sports history, because without him other guys would have had a lot more limelight, and for sure Stastny and Hawerchuk played in his long big shadow - Bossy not so much he was awesome.    Mario and WG and Orr are the tippy top of generational players for sure.  Should add Shore and Richard to your lists.   Had the norris existed back in Shores day he'd have 10-12 of them ...

[Bertuzzipunch]

How da heck we start talking about hawerchuk n gretzky

[sarjakd]

4 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

How da heck we start talking about hawerchuk n gretzky

Nothing else to talk about since no new news on how the contract negotiations are going with Hughes and Petey

[-AJ-]

7 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Like McDavid, Hawerchuk toiled on a bit so great team.   And came in hot and didn't slow down for a long time.   It just goes to say how unbelievable WG was - the most dominant player in sports history, because without him other guys would have had a lot more limelight, and for sure Stastny and Hawerchuk played in his long big shadow - Bossy not so much he was awesome.    Mario and WG and Orr are the tippy top of generational players for sure.  Should add Shore and Richard to your lists.   Had the norris existed back in Shores day he'd have 10-12 of them ...

Funny...it's not too often I have someone tell me I underrate Shore. I personally have Richard right on the edge of generational--perhaps the peak of whatever the lower tier is, along with Roy. I battle with Shore or Harvey as my #2 defenseman, but I do always say that Shore was the greatest player of the pre-Original Six Era (1917-1942) and wasn't surpassed until Richard came along in the mid 40s.

[wallstreetamigo]

52 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

pretty solid run down of how good Petey is and how offer sheets work. 

 

I didn't know the NYR wanted to draft Petey. 

And why other teams should at least be considering an offer sheet. Nothing says they have to give him a long deal. They could offer him up to 8.7 mil or so on a 5 year deal. That requires a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd and if matched and includes a ton of front end bonus money, certainly would make like miserable for the Canucks shorter term. If it takes him to UFAstatus that increases the back end risk to the Canucks too.

 

I highly doubt any team will offer sheet him or he will sign one if they do. But with how hard it is to get a leg up in the parity league, EP at 8.7 is a bargain cost compared to something like trading for Eichel.

 

If I was a GM I would definitely be considering it tbh.

Edited June 18, 2021 by wallstreetamigo

[JM_]

39 minutes ago, 'NucK™ said:

Oh really? Yeah I think it was a pretty well known fact because there was talk about how the Canucks should have traded down to draft Petey but that wouldn't have worked because the Rangers would've 100% snagged him at #7. Not trying to be a dick or anything.. just FYI 

no dickishess taken. Yeah that one slipped by me.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Jimmy McGill