Elias Pettersson | Quinn Hughes - Contract Discussion Thread

[ilduce39]

The good news, IMO, is that homegrown guys like Bo, Brock, Demko (and Edler’s previous 2 year deal) were all fairly team-friendly either in term, salary, or both. 
 

Hopefully there’s enough of a team vibe that Petey and Hughes don’t shoot for the moon here - I don’t expect them to sign for peanuts but “fair” deals (maybe 6.75 for Petey, 5.75 for Hughes) would go a long way in establishing a manageable internal cap going forward. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

19 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/theprovince.com/sports/hockey/even-nhlpa-corners-kesler-on-pay-cut-contract-comments/wcm/92b41a4f-0ae2-4c12-a13b-ee57083171f6/amp/
 

This was in 2009:

 

It has come to this.
After Ryan Kesler spoke open and honestly to The Province on March 18 to say that it would be in the best interests of his teammates to consider pay cuts so the Vancouver Canucks can remain competitive in an uncertain salary cap climate, the aftershocks were felt across the NHL.
Pundits wondered why Kesler wouldn’t go after every penny when the Canucks can talk contract extension July 1. Industry heavies waded in too and there was even a hilarious suggestion that Kesler’s quotes were taken out of context. The NHL Player’s Association also got involved.
“We talked to Ryan and he regrets some of the comments he made,” said NHLPA executive director Paul Kelly.
This is what Kesler told The Province: “If we’re going to win the Cup, we need guys to take pay cuts. The way the salary cap is now, you really can’t get what you’re worth now if you want to win. Everybody in this lockerroom knows that.”

Well that was Kesler that didn’t have to put up with a normal bridge deal after his ELC (Flyers offer sheet).  Easier for him to ask others to take less when he never had to.  Plus he always had a big mouth.  Granted, he tended to always outperform the contracts he signed p.

[Timråfan]

27 minutes ago, IBatch said:

If they do the level down, what AHO got, that would be a tough decision.   We'd have to match but we'd also be overpaying.    At least QHs can't be offer sheeted, a small tactic that right now keeps the team safe and you can bet JB made sure of that.   Small price to pay for burning a year of his ELC.   A first, second and a third is not worth EP, but EP is also not worth 8.4plus yet either is he?   Offer sheets are A-hole moves.  And AHO moves too lol. 

If a team that wants to be a real contender for the Cup wants Petey he’s worth 8.4 mill for them. And if it needs 4 first rounders they don’t care because they only got high first rounders. 
Petey is a true winner and those is hard to find. 
 

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

If a team that wants to be a real contender for the Cup wants Petey he’s worth 8.4 mill for them. And if it needs 4 first rounders they don’t care because they only got high first rounders. 
Petey is a true winner and those is hard to find. 
 

Petey's awesome. It would really suck to lose him to an offer sheet, but I wouldn't blame him its the CBA and these guys are the best in the world at what they do and have earned it. 

 

But having said that, he seems pretty happy where he is. I would actually prefer we sign Petey as long term as possible, and if an offer sheet forced Bennings hand into a long term deal I'm just fine with that. 

[Nucker 67]

Petey's not leaving Brock

 

 

[Bertuzzipunch]

Petey isnt a dickhead like kesler either.

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Petey's awesome. It would really suck to lose him to an offer sheet, but I wouldn't blame him its the CBA and these guys are the best in the world at what they do and have earned it. 

 

But having said that, he seems pretty happy where he is. I would actually prefer we sign Petey as long term as possible, and if an offer sheet forced Bennings hand into a long term deal I'm just fine with that. 

Me too.   Between him and QHs he's the guy i'd love to have locked in for 6-8 years 

[wai_lai416]

5 hours ago, Canuckster86 said:

why? Hughes can'r receive an offer sheet at all, and if a team offer sheets Petey we will match, then we can turn around in a year or 2 and target 1 of their rfa's. Tit for tat scenario

lol turn around in a year or 2 and target their rfa with what cap lol? boeser and horvat about to be rfa and ufa and u really think we have any cap space left after signing petterson and hughes to target anything worth while still having a competitive team?

[Bell]

Pettersson is our best player so sign him long term please.  This team sucked when Pettersson wasn't on the ice last year.  He is our only game breaker.

Edited June 19, 2021 by Bell

[wallstreetamigo]

6 hours ago, ilduce39 said:

The good news, IMO, is that homegrown guys like Bo, Brock, Demko (and Edler’s previous 2 year deal) were all fairly team-friendly either in term, salary, or both. 
 

Hopefully there’s enough of a team vibe that Petey and Hughes don’t shoot for the moon here - I don’t expect them to sign for peanuts but “fair” deals (maybe 6.75 for Petey, 5.75 for Hughes) would go a long way in establishing a manageable internal cap going forward. 

The problem with expecting your star players to sign for less to maintain an internal cap to build around them is when you simultaneously overpay by 500k to 1 mil on average for almost every adequate support player contract you sign. A good agent (and EP and QH have the best) would shred that tactic in 2 seconds.

 

Hughes will get at least 6.5 per just because no chance he isnt expecting to be the highest paid dman on this team.

[ilduce39]

2 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

The problem with expecting your star players to sign for less to maintain an internal cap to build around them is when you simultaneously overpay by 500k to 1 mil on average for almost every adequate support player contract you sign. A good agent (and EP and QH have the best) would shred that tactic in 2 seconds.

 

Hughes will get at least 6.5 per just because no chance he isnt expecting to be the highest paid dman on this team.

I hear you on this, for sure.  I still hope they see this upcoming period one where we can contend and thus mitigate their asks. (Maybe Canucks shoot back that Myers might have half the points… but Hughes has 3 times the minus last year! - I’m kidding.) 

 

Still an interesting litmus test on where Petey / Hughes see themselves. 

Edited June 20, 2021 by ilduce39

[wallstreetamigo]

30 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

I hear you on this, for sure.  I still hope they see this upcoming period one where we can contend and thus mitigate their asks. (Maybe Canucks shoot back that Myers might have half the points… but Hughes has 3 times the minus last year! - I’m kidding.) 

 

Still an interesting litmus test on where Petey / Hughes see themselves. 

I believe both will be signed to fair deals. I would rather lock up EP than Hughes though. It sounds like they are looking at it the other way around. If Hughes gets term, he absolutely should be at a Sergachev/McAvoy type cap hit imo. He has not shown enough on the defensive side for a 7 plus mil deal.

[N4ZZY]

8 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

lol turn around in a year or 2 and target their rfa with what cap lol? boeser and horvat about to be rfa and ufa and u really think we have any cap space left after signing petterson and hughes to target anything worth while still having a competitive team?

I think Kesler’s quote on taking less is true. That 2011 team was so good, because players took less to pursue a championship. If they had won, they would’ve been gods in this town. Statues of each and every &^@#ing one of them in and around the city. 

 

With that being said, Benning has to be able to sell to his players the opportunity to win, means taking slightly less than what they’re able to make in the open market. I think Bo’s going to set the standard for that in his upcoming next contract. He’s going to get paid, without a doubt, and the Canucks will pay him well, but you can’t have 4-5 players making 7 million each and expect to win. There needs to be a supporting cast as well, and those guys, if you want good depth, aren’t going to cost 500k. 

 

[N4ZZY]

34 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I believe both will be signed to fair deals. I would rather lock up EP than Hughes though. It sounds like they are looking at it the other way around. If Hughes gets term, he absolutely should be at a Sergachev/McAvoy type cap hit imo. He has not shown enough on the defensive side for a 7 plus mil deal.

Hughes would come in “cheaper” because of his defensive lapses. 

 

Petey is the guy I think should be signed up long term. 

[Bertuzzipunch]

30 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

I think Kesler’s quote on taking less is true. That 2011 team was so good, because players took less to pursue a championship. If they had won, they would’ve been gods in this town. Statues of each and every &^@#ing one of them in and around the city. 

 

With that being said, Benning has to be able to sell to his players the opportunity to win, means taking slightly less than what they’re able to make in the open market. I think Bo’s going to set the standard for that in his upcoming next contract. He’s going to get paid, without a doubt, and the Canucks will pay him well, but you can’t have 4-5 players making 7 million each and expect to win. There needs to be a supporting cast as well, and those guys, if you want good depth, aren’t going to cost 500k. 

 

We should be trading horvat not signing him again. We are not a good team and wont be for a long time. No point signing him when he will be old by the time were a good team again and can fetch a great return while he still has great value. 

[wai_lai416]

57 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

I think Kesler’s quote on taking less is true. That 2011 team was so good, because players took less to pursue a championship. If they had won, they would’ve been gods in this town. Statues of each and every &^@#ing one of them in and around the city. 

 

With that being said, Benning has to be able to sell to his players the opportunity to win, means taking slightly less than what they’re able to make in the open market. I think Bo’s going to set the standard for that in his upcoming next contract. He’s going to get paid, without a doubt, and the Canucks will pay him well, but you can’t have 4-5 players making 7 million each and expect to win. There needs to be a supporting cast as well, and those guys, if you want good depth, aren’t going to cost 500k. 

 

it was a lot easier back then coz when they signed the team were already a power house team. it's a lot harder to convince ppl to take below market and try to sell them a winning team when the team have been near the bottom of the league pretty much every year and they were trending to miss the playoff last year if they played the full season. Tampa bay even without let say kucherov this post season will stay dominate tampa bay won the cup last year with 4 players north of 8mil and 3 players between 5.3-6.3 so it's definitely doable you just need to have good value for the players you signed. just like even if we have 4-5 players making 7mil+ as long as they are playing like they a 7mil+ player and not a bunch of players like eriksson beagle sutter myer edler schmidt rousell that are playing well below their salary then it's fine 1 or 2 of them is fine.. we have like 1/3 of the team playing no where near the level their contract dictates that's the issue

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, N4ZZY said:

I think Kesler’s quote on taking less is true. That 2011 team was so good, because players took less to pursue a championship. If they had won, they would’ve been gods in this town. Statues of each and every &^@#ing one of them in and around the city. 

 

With that being said, Benning has to be able to sell to his players the opportunity to win, means taking slightly less than what they’re able to make in the open market. I think Bo’s going to set the standard for that in his upcoming next contract. He’s going to get paid, without a doubt, and the Canucks will pay him well, but you can’t have 4-5 players making 7 million each and expect to win. There needs to be a supporting cast as well, and those guys, if you want good depth, aren’t going to cost 500k. 

 

Did they take less though?   Back then the cap was a lot lower then it is now.   The Sedins, PGP guys for a few years by then, when the cap was 58.6 making 6.1...that's 8.6 in today's market each, Kesler wasn't yet a perennial Selke candidate but was showing a lot of promise making around 7 in today's dollars.  Ballards deal was around 6.2...so a lot of their D was making the same or more then Myers is... The only guy that i can think of off the top of my head that signed a really good deal was Burrows,  2 years at 2.5, and he got well paid for it later.   Even Luongo's deal, which we all know had crazy long term, 12 years, and massively front loaded, would be 7.3 in today's dollars, not many goalies make that do they, and none came with  all the clauses.   MG paid his guys fair deals for the time, as in fair market value, for a top team going for a cup he sure paid a lot more then you'd think but it just goes to show that not many players actually take discounts.   The clauses saved a little cash, but not as much as you'd think when you provide  the context of the cap percentage hit right?  

 

Guys did take pay cuts to sign here and play in the bottom six, not like Spezza, Simmonds etc, but like something.  1.5 for one year of Torres in today's money for example ... and Hansen three year and four year deals were good ones too. 

 

Edit:  Let's also not forget the whopping 13.85 x 2 year deal he offered Sundin in today's money either.   Nonis, waiting for Burke's deals to expire never got to spend the money. 

Edited June 20, 2021 by IBatch

[wallstreetamigo]

2 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Did they take less though?   Back then the cap was a lot lower then it is now.   The Sedins, PGP guys for a few years by then, when the cap was 58.6 making 6.1...that's 8.6 in today's market each, Kesler wasn't yet a perennial Selke candidate but was showing a lot of promise making around 7 in today's dollars.  Ballards deal was around 6.2...so a lot of their D was making the same or more then Myers is... The only guy that i can think of off the top of my head that signed a really good deal was Burrows,  2 years at 2.5, and he got well paid for it later.   Even Luongo's deal, which we all know had crazy long term, 12 years, and massively front loaded, would be 7.3 in today's dollars, not many goalies make that do they, and none came with  all the clauses.   MG paid his guys fair deals for the time, as in fair market value, for a top team going for a cup he sure paid a lot more then you'd think but it just goes to show that not many players actually take discounts.   The clauses saved a little cash, but not as much as you'd think when you provide  the context of the cap percentage hit right?  

good points. Percentage of the cap is the only fair comparable really.

[IBatch]

42 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

it was a lot easier back then coz when they signed the team were already a power house team. it's a lot harder to convince ppl to take below market and try to sell them a winning team when the team have been near the bottom of the league pretty much every year and they were trending to miss the playoff last year if they played the full season. Tampa bay even without let say kucherov this post season will stay dominate tampa bay won the cup last year with 4 players north of 8mil and 3 players between 5.3-6.3 so it's definitely doable you just need to have good value for the players you signed. just like even if we have 4-5 players making 7mil+ as long as they are playing like they a 7mil+ player and not a bunch of players like eriksson beagle sutter myer edler schmidt rousell that are playing well below their salary then it's fine 1 or 2 of them is fine.. we have like 1/3 of the team playing no where near the level their contract dictates that's the issue

And TB deals look very good on paper but those guys all get an extra 10-15% net take home pay compared to the vast majority of the league.   Vegas too.  Same with Florida, same with Dallas, and same too as Seattle unfortunately for us and our division rivals.  

[wai_lai416]

5 minutes ago, IBatch said:

And TB deals look very good on paper but those guys all get an extra 10-15% net take home pay compared to the vast majority of the league.   Vegas too.  Same with Florida, same with Dallas, and same too as Seattle unfortunately for us and our division rivals.  

sad but true basically most the teams in the US will have a far easier time signing players to *below market* value because the net pay will be the same