Elias Pettersson | Quinn Hughes - Contract Discussion Thread

[4petesake]

10 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

I think Petey has a desire to stay here and remain a Canuck. I mean, I don’t know for sure, but that’s my sense. As for the Bure incident. Yeah, why would that be an issue for Petey? Has nothing to do with him remaining a Canuck and resigning here. 

 

I actually didn’t know that the Canucks paid Bure in CAD dollars as opposed to USD. How did the league allow that to &^@#ing happen? 

I don’t think he was paid in CAD but rather the contract that he and his agent Ron Salcer originally agreed to sign was thought to be in USD when presented but turned out to be in CAD so he wouldn’t sign it.

 

After 17 months of negotiation, a five-year, $14.7-million contract — almost identical to the ones Sergei Fedorov and Alex Mogilny were signing in Detroit and Buffalo at the time — was agreed upon. 

Or at least Bure thought. 

When he sat down to sign it, he found the Canucks had put everything in Canadian funds when in fact Fedorov and Mogilny were getting U.S. funds. No NHL star ever signs a Canadian-funds deal and the Canucks knew this.

[204CanucksFan]

15 hours ago, filthycanuck said:

Grubauer is gonna get 6 mill, 5.5 the VERY VERY least if hes generous. Grubauer is gonna take care of himself first, to sign for 4.5 would be an absolute disservice to him considering his comparison is Jacob Markstrom in his last season as a Canuck and hes got 6 millon. Makar's contract is going to to be astronomical, 7.5 - 8 sounds about right because Im pretty sure a lot of teams would see he's worth that much. From the viewings Ive seen of Makar, I would be SHOCKED if he doesn't have a Norris in the next 3 years

Exactly. Grubauer is only .001% away from having the best save percentage of any starter over the last 5 seasons and has a better GAA than every goalie other than Rask. He's actually been one of the best goalies in the league over the last 5 years. No way he doesn't cash in on his next contract.

[204CanucksFan]

As far as Petey and Quinn go, if Barry is to be trusted as to the direction of the negotiations, I think if Petey wants 3 years then the best comparable would definitely be Barzal ,even though I would say Petey is by far the superior player. Barzal put up a fantastic 85 points in his rookie year but regressed in every season since. Petey has better points per game, is better defensively, is better at faceoffs and is more physical than Barzal so I'd jump at 3x$7 million all day long.

 

With Quinn apparently going for a longer term deal I'd go with a clone of the Krug contract but I'd be trying to add on that 8th year. 7 or 8x$6.5 million would be a great contract that would look better with age. And as both are small offensive defencemen with Krug being better defensively and Hughes being better offensively I think it would be a fair comparison. And for the record I believe Quinn will become quite a bit better in his own zone after some better, more structured coaching by Shaw and once he's gotten a few more than 124 NHL games under his belt.

Edited June 18, 2021 by 204CanucksFan

[steviewonder20]

https://www.broadstreethockey.com/2021/6/17/22536138/the-flyers-should-take-a-crack-at-offer-sheeting-elias-pettersson-offseason-philadelphia-hockey
 

Philly media proposes an offer sheet for Petey!

[204CanucksFan]

8 minutes ago, steviewonder20 said:

https://www.broadstreethockey.com/2021/6/17/22536138/the-flyers-should-take-a-crack-at-offer-sheeting-elias-pettersson-offseason-philadelphia-hockey
 

Philly media proposes an offer sheet for Petey!

Lol yeah, the media always proposes offer sheets. Philly is in one of the worst positions to worry about doing that. They are already tight to the cap and need to worry about resigning Hart and Sanheim with basically no other money coming off the books.

[tas]

11 minutes ago, steviewonder20 said:

https://www.broadstreethockey.com/2021/6/17/22536138/the-flyers-should-take-a-crack-at-offer-sheeting-elias-pettersson-offseason-philadelphia-hockey
 

Philly media proposes an offer sheet for Petey!

flyers fan who signed up for his own blog, not "philly media."

[Smashian Kassian]

On 6/16/2021 at 7:20 PM, hammertime said:

I do not think that is true. If a team offers $10,907,737 for Pete or Hughes I think you take the 4 1sts. Honestly if the 2 1sts and a 2nd and a 3rd were on the table I'd take a long hard look. 

 

Would you pay 2 1sts a 2nd and a 3rd for the opportunity to sign Kaprizov or Barzal for 8.8m I wouldn't.

 

 

 

Maybe 4 1st's I'd consider. Franchise players like Pettersson are hard to come by, I don't think I'd consider less than 4 1sts. And this franchise has been waiting 50 years for a defenseman like Hughes.

If the picks were late firsts I might pay that for Barzal? No? 

 

Who would even offer that much, and risk losing that many firsts anyways. Would an expansion team do that? I don't know. 

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Smashian Kassian

[steviewonder20]

50 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

Maybe 4 1st's I'd consider. Franchise players like Pettersson are hard to come by, I don't think I'd consider less than 4 1sts. And this franchise has been waiting 50 years for a defenseman like Hughes.

If the picks were late firsts I might pay that for Barzal? No? 

 

Who would even offer that much, and risk losing that many firsts anyways. Would an expansion team do that? I don't know. 

 

I don’t think it will happen and would not expect Petey to accept an offer. I just thought their comments about our franchise were interesting; being in our own bubble you don’t know how the Canucks are viewed from afar.  

[Bertuzzipunch]

30 minutes ago, steviewonder20 said:

I don’t think it will happen and would not expect Petey to accept an offer. I just thought their comments about our franchise were interesting; being in our own bubble you don’t know how the Canucks are viewed from afar.  

Wow what a goofball. Im going to go pick a fight with him on twitter brb. 

[N4ZZY]

4 hours ago, 4petesake said:

I don’t think he was paid in CAD but rather the contract that he and his agent Ron Salcer originally agreed to sign was thought to be in USD when presented but turned out to be in CAD so he wouldn’t sign it.

 

After 17 months of negotiation, a five-year, $14.7-million contract — almost identical to the ones Sergei Fedorov and Alex Mogilny were signing in Detroit and Buffalo at the time — was agreed upon. 

Or at least Bure thought. 

When he sat down to sign it, he found the Canucks had put everything in Canadian funds when in fact Fedorov and Mogilny were getting U.S. funds. No NHL star ever signs a Canadian-funds deal and the Canucks knew this.

What the &^@# were the Canucks thinking? They haven’t done anything like this since right? And why would they be doing it??? 

[wai_lai416]

22 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

Hate to say it, but I kind of agree with you. I love Petey and Hughes, but if one of those guys gives you 4 1sts, that’s quite something, especially if it’s from Seattle. It takes more than just one player to win. This is a team game. With all that being said, I’m doing whatever it &^@#ing takes to sign Petey and Hughes long term that they bleed blue, white and green. 

lol no one is gonna offer that amount to ep.. just offer the max 8.7 whatever that gives 1st 2nd and 3rd already put the canucks in a bad spot.. the canucks will no doubt match it but that's prolly not their plan to give ep 8.7 this early and canucks will be back in cap trouble again when boeser and horvat is up

[Arrow 1983]

On 6/16/2021 at 1:10 PM, wallstreetamigo said:

So you suggest that every individual aspect of offensive play is a different category but dont apply that to the defensive side of the equation?

 

You will have to explain to me how Hughes is better than most at the following.

 

Is he physical? Can he clear the crease? Does he outmuscle players along the boards in puck battles? Does he use his strength to gain body position and box out players in front of the net? Does he recover effectively when he takes offensive risks? Is he positionally a good dman? Can he take hits to make plays to get pucks out?

 

The answer to all of those is No.

your right the answer is no 

 

No he isn't a physical defenseman, no he will never be a physical defenseman. Almost  everything you mentioned is based on what you would expect from a big body D-man. 

 

The only 2 that would actually have anything to do with Hughes game are recovery and position. So lets ask the question, can he recover from mistakes. Yes he has the means  the speed to do so. It is also interesting you mention he take offensive risks is this true. Yes. But there are 2 sides of this. 1) if you take a risk you leave your self open for a mistake. Therefore, is recovery even a question. Yes he has the means to recover but is he expecting to recover probably not. He is taking a risk in hopes that he will gain something or because he sees something. The question isn't about recovery but carelessness. Does his game show recklessness. You could make the argument for the affirmative or is it something else all together. and that bring us to the next point.

2) In his first season he was paired with Tanev therefore, recovery wasn't an issue Tanev insured that if his risk didn't pay off that it wasn't going to lead to a good chance against. This year he was paired with guys that aren't Tanev. So those risks when they didn't pay off were more noticeable. So what does this say. I would argue that hockey is a game of team defense but offense is the means in which a team wins so both are equally important. A team requires players that play offense and defense. It has also been said many times before that hockey is about the superstars not as much as basketball but still non the less the superstars the clutch players win you games. Hughes, I would argue is a clutch player therefore it is as much his team mates responds ability to play defense as it is Hughes. Hughes D partner has to be able to read what he is doing and cover for him this goes for the winger or center that is not part of the play as well to fall back and cover for Hughes. A good example is on a PP when you see a defenseman pinch the off winger will shift to defense to take that position in case the Defenseman is caught pinching. It is a matter of understanding the workings of the game to fully understand Hughes short comings but his short comes don't disprove that he is a #1 defenseman. Hughes, is reading the game at a high offensive level and was paired with guys like Benn and Hamonic which most would argue that are bottom 3 pairing on most teams #5 and 6 who lack any real offensive talent and theirfor would have issues understanding what Hughes is doing. Furthermore, Last season was Hughes second season and was 21 years old and many have said it before most d-men don't figure the game out until their mid 20s. Hughes is miles ahead of most d-men. He is compared to the best in the league because he is one of the best d-man in the league. 

 

To your point of positional play you again have no clue what you are talking about. Show me times where goals are getting scored on him well in the defensive zone. First they would be few and far between for 2 reasons.

1) it doesn't happen that often because he often is in the right position and he often recovers the puck quit quickly once the opposition has shot it or lost possession he does this with his speed and the ability to understand where the puck is going. 

2) It doesn't happen that often because he gets mostly offensive starts and therefore faces few defensive zone set ups . When Hughes is on the ice goals are scored more often from the rush either due to turn over or a shot recovery from the opposition. Not from defensive zone set ups.

 

But here is the problem and I have said it before to you. You have opinions not facts. SO I say to you, so you think you know hockey and you think you know stats corsi and fenwick those  just touch the surface. 

 

Do you know every NHL team tracks stuff like puck recovery. Hughes has great advance stats as the first player to touch the puck after the opposition turns it over. Did you know that even gets tracked. 

 

here is an article for you I suggest you read it. NHL stats: How to measure forechecking and puck retrieval off the dump-and-chase - SBNation.com That article is dated May 7 2014 that is just some of the stuff that teams track. It is Why Kyle Dubas at his age can be GM of Maple Leafs.

 

 

 

[4petesake]

26 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

What the &^@# were the Canucks thinking? They haven’t done anything like this since right? And why would they be doing it??? 

Yeah I’ve never been able to figure this one out. I mean there are two sides to every story but if his version is true the Canucks treated him pretty poorly at almost every turn specially considering he’s your star player. Almost as if they were trying to piss him off with some really petty stuff. Strange story that spanned different agents for Bure (Ron Salcer then Mike Gillis), a couple different GMs & assistants (Quinn, McPhee,Burke, and Keenan,) and the league (apparently telling the Canucks not to guarantee his salary if a lockout occurred.) 

 

Again, I’m not saying it happened this way. That is Pavel’s version as reported by The Province.
 

[DeNiro]

1 hour ago, N4ZZY said:

What the &^@# were the Canucks thinking? They haven’t done anything like this since right? And why would they be doing it??? 

Pretty sure Griffiths going broke had a big hand in it.

[N4ZZY]

35 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Pretty sure Griffiths going broke had a big hand in it.

Still not good business practice. Like WTF. 

[N4ZZY]

1 hour ago, 4petesake said:

Yeah I’ve never been able to figure this one out. I mean there are two sides to every story but if his version is true the Canucks treated him pretty poorly at almost every turn specially considering he’s your star player. Almost as if they were trying to piss him off with some really petty stuff. Strange story that spanned different agents for Bure (Ron Salcer then Mike Gillis), a couple different GMs & assistants (Quinn, McPhee,Burke, and Keenan,) and the league (apparently telling the Canucks not to guarantee his salary if a lockout occurred.) 

 

Again, I’m not saying it happened this way. That is Pavel’s version as reported by The Province.
 

Still. That’s a black mark on this franchise the way they treated their star player, in Pavel. Bure is one, if not the most exciting player in this franchise’s history. Nobody has come remotely close to bringing fans out of, literally, their seats. 

[N4ZZY]

1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said:

lol no one is gonna offer that amount to ep.. just offer the max 8.7 whatever that gives 1st 2nd and 3rd already put the canucks in a bad spot.. the canucks will no doubt match it but that's prolly not their plan to give ep 8.7 this early and canucks will be back in cap trouble again when boeser and horvat is up

Man, I really hope management is working on getting a deal done sooner rather than later. Benning and his crew has done one thing, that’s glaringly bad, and that’s his management of the cap. It’s &^@#ing screwed up and it’s mostly because of some of the bad signings he’s made - Roussel, Beagle, Sutter, Ericsson (i mean, this has to be the biggest, the guy doesn’t even contribute anymore to the club and is just collecting his pay check)

[DeNiro]

12 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

Still not good business practice. Like WTF. 

No absolutely not.

 

He should have never owned the team.

[Guest]

16 hours ago, tas said:

flyers fan who signed up for his own blog, not "philly media."

Philly's version of Thomas Drance, if you will. 

[Guest]

11 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

lol no one is gonna offer that amount to ep.. just offer the max 8.7 whatever that gives 1st 2nd and 3rd already put the canucks in a bad spot.. the canucks will no doubt match it but that's prolly not their plan to give ep 8.7 this early and canucks will be back in cap trouble again when boeser and horvat is up

Elias and Quinn share agencies.  Elias signing this offer sheet would directly screw Quinn who has no arb rights, can't be offer sheeted.  

 

I think that this whole offer sheet discussion is interesting but ultimately pointless.  If Elias ends up signing one, it will speak the most about his character and he just doesn't strike me as anything but  a standup kid.  

16 hours ago, 204CanucksFan said:

As far as Petey and Quinn go, if Barry is to be trusted as to the direction of the negotiations, I think if Petey wants 3 years then the best comparable would definitely be Barzal ,even though I would say Petey is by far the superior player. Barzal put up a fantastic 85 points in his rookie year but regressed in every season since. Petey has better points per game, is better defensively, is better at faceoffs and is more physical than Barzal so I'd jump at 3x$7 million all day long.

I have to disagree with you on this one.  Barzal's numbers will never jump off the page because Islanders focus so much on defense under Trotz.  

To put it into perspective, Matthew Barzal played 55 games, got 45 points...  the next best Islander got 35 points!  He has been their leading scorer every year.