Elias Pettersson | Quinn Hughes - Contract Discussion Thread

[IBatch]

22 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

Funny...it's not too often I have someone tell me I underrate Shore. I personally have Richard right on the edge of generational--perhaps the peak of whatever the lower tier is, along with Roy. I battle with Shore or Harvey as my #2 defenseman, but I do always say that Shore was the greatest player of the pre-Original Six Era (1917-1942) and wasn't surpassed until Richard came along in the mid 40s.

Just parroting a little what the hockey historians said about Shore.   I see it like pronger's peak lasting a decade.   In which case hard to ignore.   Roy is generational in my mind given what he did to the sport for a goalie.   Plante and Sawchuk also deserve consideration as does Hasek. 

Edited June 18, 2021 by IBatch

[JM_]

5 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

And why other teams should at least be considering an offer sheet. Nothing says they have to give him a long deal. They could offer him up to 8.7 mil or so on a 5 year deal. That requires a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd and if matched and includes a ton of front end bonus money, certainly would make like miserable for the Canucks shorter term. If it takes him to UFAstatus that increases the back end risk to the Canucks too.

 

I highly doubt any team will offer sheet him or he will sign one if they do. But with how hard it is to get a leg up in the parity league, EP at 8.7 is a bargain cost compared to something like trading for Eichel.

 

If I was a GM I would definitely be considering it tbh.

I hear you, just think there isn't a realistic scenario that we wouldn't match. 

 

If you're going to go offer sheet tho, make it count. 

[wai_lai416]

5 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

Elias and Quinn share agencies.  Elias signing this offer sheet would directly screw Quinn who has no arb rights, can't be offer sheeted.  

 

I think that this whole offer sheet discussion is interesting but ultimately pointless.  If Elias ends up signing one, it will speak the most about his character and he just doesn't strike me as anything but  a standup kid.  

I have to disagree with you on this one.  Barzal's numbers will never jump off the page because Islanders focus so much on defense under Trotz.  

To put it into perspective, Matthew Barzal played 55 games, got 45 points...  the next best Islander got 35 points!  He has been their leading scorer every year.  

 

 

i don't think it'll screw hughes as much as we think, worse case scenario Hughes just signs a 1 year contract and go at it again next season. 

 

as for signing offer sheet or not doesn't really say anything about a person's characteristic. if someone is offering u 6-7mil for 5 years vs someone offering u 8.7 for 5-6 years i'd take the 8.7mil easy as it's gonna be almost 10+mil difference after the taxes difference. that's more than an extra year worth of salary. if he was a long time canucks then maybe he would sign for less.

 

sure barzal is their leading scorer every year.  but more than half of his assist are secondary assist.. bailey have more primary assist than him. hell even boeser have more primary assist than barzal. he's a good player but he's not the one and only guy that's leading the islanders.. since tavares is gone and now that he's the #1 guy he hasn't even been close to what he did in the first season. he's gonna end up a good 65-70 points guy while EP have been consistent almost a ppg guy regardless of his teammates in his first couple season and 80% of his points are either primary assist or goals in his career.. that's pretty impressive

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, -AJ- said:

I'd tend to agree people are too quick to label a player as generational, although the discussion is one of interest to me.

 

For my money, these are the players who have cemented themselves as generational (in rough chronological order):

 

1. Howe

2. Orr

3. Gretzky

4. Lemiuex

5. Jagr (gatekeeper)

6. Crosby

7. Ovechkin

 

I would say Jagr is the lowest level a guy can be to reach that high pedestal. Five Art Ross Trophies, three Lester B. Pearson (Ted Lindsay) trophies, one Hart and four 2nd place Hart finishes...pretty high standard to be the "worst" of the bunch.

 

McDavid is trending towards getting in, but he's got a way to go before I think he's written in. There's also a chance that MacKinnon makes a case, but he'll either need to step up his regular season game to win some Art Ross trophies or take home a Conn Smythe or two.

I love Jagr because he's a litmus test for three decades of players.   Also completely kaboshes the idea that players are "so much better today".   I don't think he deserves to be the bottom guy on the totem pole either.   This might not be popular but i'd pick Ovi.   Jagr vs Crosby is a tough one.  

[wallstreetamigo]

27 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I hear you, just think there isn't a realistic scenario that we wouldn't match. 

 

If you're going to go offer sheet tho, make it count. 

I agree it would be almost a certainty the Canucks would match. But it could certainly mess up their cap situation a bit more. 

 

Dolan is an unstable owner. And Drury is not a part of the old boys club. I would rather not take a chance of them doing something stupid. The Rangers never seem to have too many problems offloading cap either. If they set their mind to it they could pull it off. 

[Bertuzzipunch]

4 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I agree it would be almost a certainty the Canucks would match. But it could certainly mess up their cap situation a bit more. 

 

Dolan is an unstable owner. And Drury is not a part of the old boys club. I would rather not take a chance of them doing something stupid. The Rangers never seem to have too many problems offloading cap either. If they set their mind to it they could pull it off. 

Rangers win lottery 2 years in a row and think this is a good idea. Typical idiots. 

[wallstreetamigo]

4 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Rangers win lottery 2 years in a row and think this is a good idea. Typical idiots. 

Its actually a great idea for them. They lucked out but should be much improved this upcoming year. So next years draft picks arent likely to be in the lottery. And if they are, the Canucks wont win the lottery anyway lol.

 

If I was Drury I would do it. Nothing at all to lose imo.

Edited June 19, 2021 by wallstreetamigo

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

 

sure barzal is their leading scorer every year.  but more than half of his assist are secondary assist.. bailey have more primary assist than him. hell even boeser have more primary assist than barzal. he's a good player but he's not the one and only guy that's leading the islanders.. since tavares is gone and now that he's the #1 guy he hasn't even been close to what he did in the first season. he's gonna end up a good 65-70 points guy while EP have been consistent almost a ppg guy regardless of his teammates in his first couple season and 80% of his points are either primary assist or goals in his career.. that's pretty impressive

But that’s what I’m getting  at, you shouldn’t compare points.  
 

Elias would struggle to get close to PPG on the Islanders.  
Even without Elias,  Canucks still had 4 players that got more points then the Islanders’ 2nd leading scorer. Barzal’s 45 points are very impressive when you

consider those factors and they are a great team.  
 

Calling Elias a much superior player to Barzal is not something I can agree on at all. Equal? Sure.  
 

Oh and Elias is showing a scary tendency to miss more and more games each year. Not a good trend. 

[Bertuzzipunch]

15 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Its actually a great idea for them. They lucked out but should be much improved this upcoming year. So next years draft picks arent likely to be in the lottery. And if they are, the Canucks wont win the lottery anyway lol.

 

If I was Drury I would do it. Nothing at all to lose imo.

Sure they can try but petey would never sign which i expect his agent would tell them.

[wai_lai416]

50 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

But that’s what I’m getting  at, you shouldn’t compare points.  
 

Elias would struggle to get close to PPG on the Islanders.  
Even without Elias,  Canucks still had 4 players that got more points then the Islanders’ 2nd leading scorer. Barzal’s 45 points are very impressive when you

consider those factors and they are a great team.  
 

Calling Elias a much superior player to Barzal is not something I can agree on at all. Equal? Sure.  
 

Oh and Elias is showing a scary tendency to miss more and more games each year. Not a good trend. 

i don't see the trend of missing more and more game each year?? he missed 11 games his first season after getting chock slammed and a can opener that's not hockey play.. his next season he played 68 of 69 games.. this was his first time he missed significant time.. and no pettersson would do just fine on islanders.. that team have far more goal scorer than the canucks.. let's just look at the last time we had a normal season.. that team have 7 players excluding barzal with 15+ goals. vancouver have 3 excluding pettersson. 2 if u dont' count the bunch of empty net goals by virtanen that year. i prefer looking at goals than points.. Islander have far more consistent 15-20+ goal scorer than the canucks.. you keep saying EP will struggle to be a PPG guy in islander except islanders have scored more goals than vancouver every season except last since ep and barzal have been in the league.

 

i like to see Barzal put up close to a ppg playing with the likes of goldobin and eriksson.. while barzal can't even put up a ppg playing with perennial 20 goal scorer on both his wings

[JM_]

1 hour ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I agree it would be almost a certainty the Canucks would match. But it could certainly mess up their cap situation a bit more. 

 

Dolan is an unstable owner. And Drury is not a part of the old boys club. I would rather not take a chance of them doing something stupid. The Rangers never seem to have too many problems offloading cap either. If they set their mind to it they could pull it off. 

it would have to be such a bonus heavy, ridiculous deal that I might actually be happy for Petey. You know, Leafs money. 

[N4ZZY]

2 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

i don't think it'll screw hughes as much as we think, worse case scenario Hughes just signs a 1 year contract and go at it again next season. 

 

as for signing offer sheet or not doesn't really say anything about a person's characteristic. if someone is offering u 6-7mil for 5 years vs someone offering u 8.7 for 5-6 years i'd take the 8.7mil easy as it's gonna be almost 10+mil difference after the taxes difference. that's more than an extra year worth of salary. if he was a long time canucks then maybe he would sign for less.

 

sure barzal is their leading scorer every year.  but more than half of his assist are secondary assist.. bailey have more primary assist than him. hell even boeser have more primary assist than barzal. he's a good player but he's not the one and only guy that's leading the islanders.. since tavares is gone and now that he's the #1 guy he hasn't even been close to what he did in the first season. he's gonna end up a good 65-70 points guy while EP have been consistent almost a ppg guy regardless of his teammates in his first couple season and 80% of his points are either primary assist or goals in his career.. that's pretty impressive

Yeah. I take EP40 every single &^@#ing time. 

[EddieVedder]

2 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

i don't think it'll screw hughes as much as we think, worse case scenario Hughes just signs a 1 year contract and go at it again next season. 

 

as for signing offer sheet or not doesn't really say anything about a person's characteristic. if someone is offering u 6-7mil for 5 years vs someone offering u 8.7 for 5-6 years i'd take the 8.7mil easy as it's gonna be almost 10+mil difference after the taxes difference. that's more than an extra year worth of salary. if he was a long time canucks then maybe he would sign for less.

 

sure barzal is their leading scorer every year.  but more than half of his assist are secondary assist.. bailey have more primary assist than him. hell even boeser have more primary assist than barzal. he's a good player but he's not the one and only guy that's leading the islanders.. since tavares is gone and now that he's the #1 guy he hasn't even been close to what he did in the first season. he's gonna end up a good 65-70 points guy while EP have been consistent almost a ppg guy regardless of his teammates in his first couple season and 80% of his points are either primary assist or goals in his career.. that's pretty impressive

Barzal is a beast of a player.  

[EddieVedder]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

I love Jagr because he's a litmus test for three decades of players.   Also completely kaboshes the idea that players are "so much better today".   I don't think he deserves to be the bottom guy on the totem pole either.   This might not be popular but i'd pick Ovi.   Jagr vs Crosby is a tough one.  

Jagr was more dominant than Ovi.  

Jagr could handle the puck, protect it, dish it and shoot better than almost any player i had ever seen.  

[EddieVedder]

3 hours ago, -AJ- said:

I'd tend to agree people are too quick to label a player as generational, although the discussion is one of interest to me.

 

For my money, these are the players who have cemented themselves as generational (in rough chronological order):

 

1. Howe

2. Orr

3. Gretzky

4. Lemiuex

5. Jagr (gatekeeper)

6. Crosby

7. Ovechkin

 

I would say Jagr is the lowest level a guy can be to reach that high pedestal. Five Art Ross Trophies, three Lester B. Pearson (Ted Lindsay) trophies, one Hart and four 2nd place Hart finishes...pretty high standard to be the "worst" of the bunch.

 

McDavid is trending towards getting in, but he's got a way to go before I think he's written in. There's also a chance that MacKinnon makes a case, but he'll either need to step up his regular season game to win some Art Ross trophies or take home a Conn Smythe or two.

Mcdavid is a generational talent.  Jagr is above Ovi for sure.

[EddieVedder]

3 hours ago, -AJ- said:

30 years ago, I would've agreed, but in the modern era of hockey with 31 (soon 32) teams, I think it's unrealistic to expect all greats to win the Cup. That said, playoff performance is huge and McDavid will need to step it up to really be seriously considered. He has 22 points in 21 playoff games, which is good, but not good enough for a generational talent.

 

Ovechkin has 135 points in 141 games, but much of that was in a more defensive era. The same rings true with Crosby's era (the late 00s and early 2010s) and he has 191 points in 174 games.

Ovi also was a notorious cherry picker pre Trotz.  

 

 

[Bertuzzipunch]

You guys are nuts. Ovi is better than jagr

[wallstreetamigo]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

it would have to be such a bonus heavy, ridiculous deal that I might actually be happy for Petey. You know, Leafs money. 

The Rangers are flush with cash

[-AJ-]

29 minutes ago, EddieVedder said:

Mcdavid is a generational talent.  Jagr is above Ovi for sure.

 

23 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

You guys are nuts. Ovi is better than jagr

The tough thing about placing Ovi that low is that I consider him to be the greatest goal scorer of all-time. I'm not sure how low I can place a guy I hold in that much esteem.

[Patrik Laine]

https://www.broadstreethockey.com/platform/amp/2021/6/17/22536138/the-flyers-should-take-a-crack-at-offer-sheeting-elias-pettersson-offseason-philadelphia-hockey

 

I got a bad feeling about this.