Former Canuck Maxim Lapierre destroys Toews ( article).

[Coconuts]

11 hours ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Does he have a coaching background ?

He's a former NHL player, that's all it takes innit? 

 

11 hours ago, Quantum said:

The fact that he and Antoine Roussel have both spoken up against Toews is amazing. High class. Much respect.

 

Love our boys. Good on them, not surprised that either of them spoke up. 

[Coconuts]

Nice to see guys blasting the players in the room though, it seems like most of the vitriol has been directed towards management thus far. Toews, Kane, other guys in the room, they're just as complicit and they reaped the reward. 

 

I never cared for Toews, I respected his play style and acknowledged his accomplishments, but I wasn't a fan. But even then, I thought him the leader and character so many others did, guess he wasn't that all along. Imagine doubling down like that. This will tarnish the legacies of that 2010 team, if I had it my way none of them would make into the hall. 

[King Heffy]

6 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Nice to see guys blasting the players in the room though, it seems like most of the vitriol has been directed towards management thus far. Toews, Kane, other guys in the room, they're just as complicit and they reaped the reward. 

 

I never cared for Toews, I respected his play style and acknowledged his accomplishments, but I wasn't a fan. But even then, I thought him the leader and character so many others did, guess he wasn't that all along. Imagine doubling down like that. This will tarnish the legacies of that 2010 team, if I had it my way none of them would make into the hall. 

Burke is on the selection committee.  I suspect he will be a very strong voice for those like myself who share your opinion.

[D-Money]

3 hours ago, gurn said:

Was it ?

 

And-victim blaming is a bad thing to do.

Yes, getting physically assaulted on a weekly basis throughout childhood on a pretty much weekly basis by the person who is supposed to be your protector is worse than a single incident, IMO. Of course, everybody reacts differently to everything, but I'm not talking about reactions.

 

The sad fact is, monsters walk among us. Society can put up all sorts of deterrents, and attempt to identify them ASAP, but often there is nothing that can be done until they strike first. Right now, the primary responsibility to protect my children from them lies with myself and my wife. One day, they will be adults, and the primary responsibility to protect themselves will be their own. 

 

As far as I am aware, Aldrich had never done anything like this before, so how could anyone identify him? So likely the only person - beyond the monster - who could have prevented what happened to Kyle was Kyle himself. Acknowledging that is not victim blaming - the blame totally goes to the monster. But good on Kyle for continuing to fight for himself, and effect change. He definitely should have been supported more by the Blackhawks' organization after the fact, but there is likely nothing that they could have done from preventing it in the first place.

[alt kilgore]

I really hope they re-visit the punishment they dished out.  But they won't.  Time heals all mistakes. The hockey talk has already moved on to the Eichel deal.

Pathetically underwhelming.  Two million...to the 1/2 Billionaire owner whom Bettman said was completely innocent.  How does that compute?   I've heard one million will go to sexual abuse survivor programs in the area.  Great!  But also a great tax write off for Wirtz he can use to balance out his other investments.

 

The team itself has not had one punishment or consequence.   No draft picks...not even one lower pick.  The 2 million fine not put towards their cap even. 

 

I wish some intrepid, aware, reporter would actually confront Bettman on this.  Do actual journalism. That presser was a joke.  With predictable questions to which Bettman had already rehearsed his answers. And no followups allowed it sounded like.  Just. "Do you think the $2 million fine was enough?".........."Yes".     Next question.  Just exasperating.

[D-Money]

2 hours ago, Shayster007 said:

That's your opinion.There is zero point in comparing trauma, it accomplishes nothing.

 

Further more what you described in your first paragraph is rape. The vast majority of the time there is not going to be hard evidence that proves one way or the other. Most of the time one party will say it was consensual while the other will say it most definitely was not. If due diligence was done the end result should not have been the same like you say.

 

That middle paragraph is rediculous. That's victim blaming saying other people wouldn't let that happen to them so he shouldn't have let it happened to him. I would wager that 20 year old, professional athlete, Kyle Beach was a way tougher person then you, or any of us on this forum, and it happened to him. Saying that he's not a child so it shouldn't have happened is just plain stupid. I'm glad you never had your entire future, something you worked your entire life for, put into jeopardy by a sexual predator and forced to learn hard truths about how human biological reactions like fight/flight work.

Comparing the trauma is not the point. My point on Burrows was he taunted someone from a well-established trauma. Sweeping that under the rug, while criticizing Blackhawks' players for taunting someone for something they likely did not know the facts of, and likely didn't believe was true, is disingenuous.

 

"Due diligence" absolutely should have been done by the Blackhawks organization. But saying the end result "should not have been the same" is hopeful thinking. There is a good possibility that the end result would be the same. There is very little possibility that there would have been concrete proof of non-consent. But hopefully, there would have been enough to put something on Aldrich's record that would have prevented him from being responsible for children. Because that is the part of all of this that may have been preventable, and the part that angers me. I'm glad that those in charge of Chicago are having consequences for not at least trying to establish what really happened.

 

As for "victim blaming", see my previous post. And I was merely trying to show what young men in their 20's would likely say. Because unlike the other thread, this thread is about bashing the players on the Blackhawks for not sticking up for a teammate. Those doing that are completely ignoring the fact that Brad Aldrich was also their teammate, and they had history and a relationship with him. Kyle Beach was just a new kid - one who had been frequently described as having "character issues" - who was accusing someone they all thought they knew far better. I can understand why many of them didn't know what to do with that. It was up to management to settle it, not the players.

 

[King Heffy]

10 minutes ago, D-Money said:

Yes, getting physically assaulted on a weekly basis throughout childhood on a pretty much weekly basis by the person who is supposed to be your protector is worse than a single incident, IMO. Of course, everybody reacts differently to everything, but I'm not talking about reactions. 

I'm not excusing Burrows, but there's a difference between saying that kind of stuff during a game to try to get an edge and doing it to your own teammates.  Neither is ok, but at the very least the Hawks are awful teammates.

[D-Money]

Just now, King Heffy said:

I'm not excusing Burrows, but there's a difference between saying that kind of stuff during a game to try to get an edge and doing it to your own teammates.  Neither is ok, but at the very least the Hawks are awful teammates.

Possibly. But Aldrich was also their teammate, and they knew him far better than some new kid with "character issues". This could have been their misguided way for sticking up for Brad. 

[D-Money]

14 minutes ago, kilgore said:

I really hope they re-visit the punishment they dished out.  But they won't.  Time heals all mistakes. The hockey talk has already moved on to the Eichel deal.

Pathetically underwhelming.  Two million...to the 1/2 Billionaire owner whom Bettman said was completely innocent.  How does that compute?   I've heard one million will go to sexual abuse survivor programs in the area.  Great!  But also a great tax write off for Wirtz he can use to balance out his other investments.

 

The team itself has not had one punishment or consequence.   No draft picks...not even one lower pick.  The 2 million fine not put towards their cap even. 

 

I wish some intrepid, aware, reporter would actually confront Bettman on this.  Do actual journalism. That presser was a joke.  With predictable questions to which Bettman had already rehearsed his answers. And no followups allowed it sounded like.  Just. "Do you think the $2 million fine was enough?".........."Yes".     Next question.  Just exasperating.

I'm hoping that the future victims of Aldrich will have enough ammo to go after the Chicago crew with lawsuits now. They at least had a chance to prevent that, and did nothing.

[King Heffy]

1 minute ago, D-Money said:

Possibly. But Aldrich was also their teammate, and they knew him far better than some new kid with "character issues". This could have been their misguided way for sticking up for Brad. 

Regardless, it wasn't acceptable and it shows severe character issues seeing that it was tolerated in the room.  Aldrich wasn't even there when a lot of this was taking place.

[Mike Vanderhoek]

10 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

Hit them where it hurts 

3 first round draft picks 

This does nothing to acknowledge, address, and punish those involved. 

 

Don't know why so many people are stuck on losing picks. If it was Vancouver to even bring up picks would be blasphemy.

[alt kilgore]

50 minutes ago, D-Money said:

Comparing the trauma is not the point. My point on Burrows was he taunted someone from a well-established trauma. Sweeping that under the rug, while criticizing Blackhawks' players for taunting someone for something they likely did not know the facts of, and likely didn't believe was true, is disingenuous.

 

"Due diligence" absolutely should have been done by the Blackhawks organization. But saying the end result "should not have been the same" is hopeful thinking. There is a good possibility that the end result would be the same. There is very little possibility that there would have been concrete proof of non-consent. But hopefully, there would have been enough to put something on Aldrich's record that would have prevented him from being responsible for children. Because that is the part of all of this that may have been preventable, and the part that angers me. I'm glad that those in charge of Chicago are having consequences for not at least trying to establish what really happened.

 

As for "victim blaming", see my previous post. And I was merely trying to show what young men in their 20's would likely say. Because unlike the other thread, this thread is about bashing the players on the Blackhawks for not sticking up for a teammate. Those doing that are completely ignoring the fact that Brad Aldrich was also their teammate, and they had history and a relationship with him. Kyle Beach was just a new kid - one who had been frequently described as having "character issues" - who was accusing someone they all thought they knew far better. I can understand why many of them didn't know what to do with that. It was up to management to settle it, not the players.

 

 

45 minutes ago, D-Money said:

I'm hoping that the future victims of Aldrich will have enough ammo to go after the Chicago crew with lawsuits now. They at least had a chance to prevent that, and did nothing.

 

But there is a huge difference in Burrows case.    O'Sullivan made his comments on Burrows taunting him in 2015, on an incident  8 years before that.  So 2007.  Wasn't that about the time that the "Burrows, do we really need him?" thread was started?  Not excusing him, and he has since apologized and said he was wrong.  But he was young pest, trying to break into the NHL, and also more was excused then on the ice.  He wasn't the only one doing it.

 

https://www.tsn.ca/burrows-broke-nhl-s-trash-talking-code-1.411062

 

Burrows owned up to the remarks after the Canucks’ loss to the Flyers.

“I apologize if I offended him back then. I did say some stuff that may now, looking back ... I could see how it would’ve offended him, like a lot of things I said back in the day,” Burrows said. “I read his story on The Player’s Tribune. It’s tough to see.”

Burrows, now 34, said he is a “more mature, older, different player” now.

 

The biggest difference though is that he is not an authority figure on the same team.  It was Burrows job to annoy other players on the opposition verbally as hard as physically annoying them.  His crime was he went too far in that instance. 

 

edit:  Just to add that, besides him not having a position of authority, obviously Burrows also did not sexually abuse him.

 

 

On the second post quoted, the result would be the same.  Pocket change fine against the owner.  No punishment for the team itself. Even though it was they that got the advantage, in their minds at least, in winning the Cup.

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by kilgore

[Hairy Kneel]

26 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

This does nothing to acknowledge, address, and punish those involved. 

 

Don't know why so many people are stuck on losing picks. If it was Vancouver to even bring up picks would be blasphemy.

2 million was a nothing penalty. 

3 picks hurts their future 

Which it should. 

What that team has done as a whole has put and continues to put a black mark on the league. A 20 year old is barely an adult. Being sexually assaulted by a coach is a heinous crime. Make it 4 first rounders then. This cannot ever happen again. 

[alt kilgore]

24 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

This does nothing to acknowledge, address, and punish those involved. 

 

Don't know why so many people are stuck on losing picks. If it was Vancouver to even bring up picks would be blasphemy.

 

Quenneville and Toews, Kane, whomever participated in covering it up, even teasing him, purposely did not address it then, because it would have created a media circus around the team just before they were set to go on a contender Cup run.  Who knows if they'd have won it all that year if they had to pause and deal with it then?

 

So yes, the team should pay some price for having an easier road to the Cup because of their indifference to it all at the time. They should have a bit of a harder time to any future Cup, by a reduction in draft picks. I suggested only one second round pick lost.  I know others want more, and I wouldn't argue against that as well, but a second at least would be a hit to the team itself.  At least some kind of disadvantage to balance the advantage they got in 2010

[Pears]

8 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

Wondering if this is why Buffy walked away from the game. 

It’s 100% why Toews took last year off that’s for d*** sure. 

[RakuRaku]

Hard to blame Toews and Kane when they were still really young at the time and were too afraid to rock the dressing room... we don't even know if they had all the knowledge or if they ever refused to help when approached... but at the very least, Toews and Kane did sound sorry. BUT look at that face of Duncan Keith though.... eyes were shifting like "oh crap... how should I talk about this?"

 

What I found real disgusting was Queenville's face in the first interview after Beach came out.... all this "no comment" response, the blank face... not one bit sorry man!!! He was the head coach where all the players looked up to and he just wanna win at the time, took the side of management and turned a blind eye to this horrible crime!

 

Captain Bo was right!! This was totally unacceptable... and the NHLPA didn't do a thing to help at the time! 

[nuck-lifer]

12 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

Hit them where it hurts 

3 first round draft picks 

or Phil Pritchard, the official keeper of the cup takes bench grinder to that 2010 team and erases them completely.

They all knew what was going on and hoped it would disappear so they could focus on the playoffs.

 

there was lots of talk about us picking Beach or Hodgson at the time I recall. wonder how that would have turned out if we did.. better for Beach for sure as the Sedins wouldn't allow any of that BS for starters.

[cdgraham]

On 11/3/2021 at 11:58 PM, Elias Pettersson said:

Toews and Kane should have their contracts terminated immediately.  And Bettman should be fired tomorrow.  Not sure how Cheveldayoff got away with it, he must have something on Bettman.

The cheveldayoff I understand more so then the players tbh. If he was under the impression that everyone above him was dealing with it, and only a few weeks later the culprit was let go, not sure what at the time he could have done better except perhaps have a better idea of the magnitude of what occurred. He also was apparently the only person to put himself in the meeting where it was talked about which means he was honest. 

 

He probably made some mistakes but it makes sense to me. You can't give blame to virtually everyone and say it's literally everyone's fault in an organization as large as the Blackhawks. 

Edited November 5, 2021 by cdgraham

[Hairy Kneel]

"ALLLL-DRICHHHH!!!!" 

"ALLLL-DRICHHHH!!!!" 

"ALLLL-DRICHHHH!!!!" 

"ALLLL-DRICHHHH!!!!" 

"ALLLL-DRICHHHH!!!!" 

[R3aL]

16 hours ago, cuporbust said:

Excerpts:

 

Absolutely love that max spoke out. I was literally thinking about how the players have seemingly slipped by accountability so far on this horrendous story 5 minutes before I found this .

 

 

Thoughts ?

 

 

Link to full article:

https://www.habsfanatics.com/index.php?no=62291&s=23

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

my take on this may be controversial just because it’s not YA HANG THEM ALL!!

 

at the end of the day the organization failed Beach horribly.

 

what I can’t understand is why the team protected the video coach and tried to burry it. 
 

not sure if it was out of shame or embarrassment but it doesn’t make sense to me.

 

a high end promising power forward is much more valuable to the team. over a scum bag video coach (who can be replaced)
 

as a business owner or GM or anyone really in the org you would think you would want to  protect the more valuable asset regardless of what the circumstances were especially when it came down to inappropriate / criminal actions. 
 

to me it makes me think that, that coach had dirt or some sort of leverage on people in the organization. But again maybe I’m missing something because it makes no sense to me.

 

Then as for responsibility an Owner is ultimately responsible for what goes on in his organization and the league also shares in this to some degree.

 

I find it hard to believe ownership had no knowledge of what was happening or the accusations that were taking place if even the players knew to a certain extent.

 

I understand the coach’s reaction to the meeting in the playoff saying I just want to focus on the the playoffs and I truly feel for him that was a valid response at the time.

 

it’s pretty cut and dry, wrong and right and the management team should have been able to handle this situation the right way. They obviously should have listened to beach, investigated, thrown the coach to the wolves and make structural changes to ensure this doesn’t happen again and support Beach in healing from the experience. He should have been supported. It was also in the best interest of the team and for the organizational culture to support him. So again makes me think Aldrich had dirt on them.

 

for the players like you don’t get really involved in other players personal lives. So when Kane had his taxi cab situation players didn’t publicly cut into their teammate, when Ryan oreilly had a dui team mates didn’t get up locally involved so I can understand why the players probably felt the org and if necessary the league and / or police would have gotten more involved if serious /

true. I would give the players a little slack on this for those reasons. 

 

But for me where responsibility is now everyone who even has partial knowledge of what took place is after Aldrich left the org. Now they put a predator in a place to do much greater damage and their collective silence makes everyone involved incredibly guilty of enabling a predator.

 

this is non negotiable to me and they all should be punished to some degree. Whether it be on their character like maxim is doing to Toews here.

 

Kevin chevy- F - FACE  should be fired and it is gross to the league and to all those who have had to endure sex crimes or abuse that he is in fact still employed.

 

he had knowledge of what transpired and stayed silent in a position of influence. Even after leaving the org he stayed silent.

 

too much wrong with everything/everyone involved. 

My point is I understand the coaching and players perspective  before the playoffs but after during the summer and beyond there is no excuse, and there is zero excuse for the management team and ownership at all.