Former Canuck Maxim Lapierre destroys Toews ( article).

[Gurn]

8 minutes ago, R3aL said:

as a business owner or GM or anyone really in the org you would think you would want to  protect the more valuable asset regardless of what the circumstances were especially when it came down to inappropriate / criminal actions. 

That is what they thought they were doing;  "protecting the company's assets"

Protecting their shot at the cup

protecting their company from the shame and legal repercussions

protecting themselves from having to do the right thing

 

only person not protected was Beach.

[Bure2Win]

16 hours ago, Odd. said:

Pretty sure Beach said Chevy was at least trying to bring it to light and stuff and doesn’t actually accuse him of the negligence but don’t quote me.

 

As for Toews, Ill deserve judgement for now until we know more about what he knew. do think he should step down as captain if he had some knowledge for sure.

You can bet almost everyone on that team knew.

[spook007]

3 hours ago, kilgore said:

 

 

But there is a huge difference in Burrows case.    O'Sullivan made his comments on Burrows taunting him in 2015, on an incident  8 years before that.  So 2007.  Wasn't that about the time that the "Burrows, do we really need him?" thread was started?  Not excusing him, and he has since apologized and said he was wrong.  But he was young pest, trying to break into the NHL, and also more was excused then on the ice.  He wasn't the only one doing it.

 

https://www.tsn.ca/burrows-broke-nhl-s-trash-talking-code-1.411062

 

Burrows owned up to the remarks after the Canucks’ loss to the Flyers.

“I apologize if I offended him back then. I did say some stuff that may now, looking back ... I could see how it would’ve offended him, like a lot of things I said back in the day,” Burrows said. “I read his story on The Player’s Tribune. It’s tough to see.”

Burrows, now 34, said he is a “more mature, older, different player” now.

 

The biggest difference though is that he is not an authority figure on the same team.  It was Burrows job to annoy other players on the opposition verbally as hard as physically annoying them.  His crime was he went too far in that instance. 

 

edit:  Just to add that, besides him not having a position of authority, obviously Burrows also did not sexually abuse him.

 

 

On the second post quoted, the result would be the same.  Pocket change fine against the owner.  No punishment for the team itself. Even though it was they that got the advantage, in their minds at least, in winning the Cup.

 

 

 

Spot on with everything... on top of that Burrows was not a team mate of O'Sullivan... big difference...

[CBH1926]

4 hours ago, kilgore said:

 

Quenneville and Toews, Kane, whomever participated in covering it up, even teasing him, purposely did not address it then, because it would have created a media circus around the team just before they were set to go on a contender Cup run.  Who knows if they'd have won it all that year if they had to pause and deal with it then?

 

So yes, the team should pay some price for having an easier road to the Cup because of their indifference to it all at the time. They should have a bit of a harder time to any future Cup, by a reduction in draft picks. I suggested only one second round pick lost.  I know others want more, and I wouldn't argue against that as well, but a second at least would be a hit to the team itself.  At least some kind of disadvantage to balance the advantage they got in 2010

The proper thing was to to place Aldrich on paid or unpaid leave and investigate the incident,

Upon completion he should have been fired and escorted out of the building,

This whole narrative about upsetting the team chemistry is horse $&!# to justify not doing anything,

 

 

 

[King Heffy]

3 hours ago, RakuRaku said:

Hard to blame Toews and Kane when they were still really young at the time and were too afraid to rock the dressing room... we don't even know if they had all the knowledge or if they ever refused to help when approached... but at the very least, Toews and Kane did sound sorry. BUT look at that face of Duncan Keith though.... eyes were shifting like "oh crap... how should I talk about this?"

 

What I found real disgusting was Queenville's face in the first interview after Beach came out.... all this "no comment" response, the blank face... not one bit sorry man!!! He was the head coach where all the players looked up to and he just wanna win at the time, took the side of management and turned a blind eye to this horrible crime!

 

Captain Bo was right!! This was totally unacceptable... and the NHLPA didn't do a thing to help at the time! 

Hard not to blame a captain afraid of rocking the dressing room.

[Fred65]

Of coursefans can take their own disgust out by booing Toews and Kane in the next appearance, just to let them know, we recognize your failings and won't let you forget

[Patel Bure]

I don't like Toews as much as the next guy, but I'll have to defend him, Kane, and Keith here.   

 

While it's possible that they knew that something had transpired, there's no way that these guys knew the full extent of what was going on.  

 

Their primary goal and focus was to compete for the cup and they already had a ton on their plate.   

 

From what they understood, management took care of the Aldrich situation in the off-season.   

 

I hate to admit it, and I apologize for offending folks here, but I believe that Kane, Toews, and Keith didn't know what was going on.  

 

The real villains here are Stan Bowman, the former Chicago Blackhawks executives, Gary Bettman, and possibly Joel Quennville.  

 

The players are innocent in my view.

[Patel Bure]

1 hour ago, Bure2Win said:

You can bet almost everyone on that team knew.

As much as I dislike those 2010 Blackhawks as hockey rivals, they would have murdered Aldrich had they known what was going on.  

 

Byfuglien probably would have done to Aldrich what Aldrich forced upon Beach before Byfuglien, Ladd, Eager, and those guys would curb stomped Aldrich's &^@#ing face.  

[-DLC-]

4 hours ago, RakuRaku said:

Hard to blame Toews and Kane when they were still really young at the time and were too afraid to rock the dressing room...

Remember though. one of these guys was "old enough" to assault a cab driver.  So I won't let him off the hook for his age based on him being unafraid to do that.

[DSVII]

18 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Toews and Kane should have their contracts terminated immediately.  And Bettman should be fired tomorrow.  Not sure how Cheveldayoff got away with it, he must have something on Bettman.

The bigger punishment is to extend Toews and Kane's contract by another 10 yrs

[Hairy Kneel]

Bettman oversaw this whole fiasco. 

[Patel Bure]

1 minute ago, Hairy Kneel said:

Bettman oversaw this whole fiasco. 

Bettman is a dickhead  Always has been always will be.  It's a shame as well since he's actually a brilliant businessman.  

Edited November 5, 2021 by Patel Bure

[UFCanuck]

Toews is a member of the triple gold club for Canada. People will give him a pass because thats the old culture.

[King Heffy]

1 hour ago, -DLC- said:

Remember though. one of these guys was "old enough" to assault a cab driver.  So I won't let him off the hook for his age based on him being unafraid to do that.

Not to mention that a guy like Debrincat is a whole year old than Toews was at the time and seemed sincere with a thoughtful response when asked.  More sincere than the 33 year old captain who was more concerned about management losing their jobs than what happened to Beach.  As far as I'm concerned, although young, 22 years old is still a grown ass man, albeit a pitiful excuse for one in Toews' case.

[spook007]

1 hour ago, Patel Bure said:

I don't like Toews as much as the next guy, but I'll have to defend him, Kane, and Keith here.   

 

While it's possible that they knew that something had transpired, there's no way that these guys knew the full extent of what was going on.  

 

Their primary goal and focus was to compete for the cup and they already had a ton on their plate.   

 

From what they understood, management took care of the Aldrich situation in the off-season.   

 

I hate to admit it, and I apologize for offending folks here, but I believe that Kane, Toews, and Keith didn't know what was going on.  

 

The real villains here are Stan Bowman, the former Chicago Blackhawks executives, Gary Bettman, and possibly Joel Quennville.  

 

The players are innocent in my view.

Several players in that dressing room have stated it was sponken openly, even jokedabout in the dressing room. So what exactly were they innocent of?

The fact remains they all say they never heard about it, or have no recolection of it... 

Regardless of what exactly they knew, the fact they say they never heard anything, makes them rotten to the core and really pathetic. 
its not as if they were talking about an every day occourance.... They knew something was going on... can be debated, maybe, how much in details they knew, but they have definotely heard about it. 
And Toews in particular, should have asked the boy if everything was ok. 
i have zero doubt Horvat would have done so.... 

[Timråfan]

1 hour ago, spook007 said:

Several players in that dressing room have stated it was sponken openly, even jokedabout in the dressing room.
 

 

But what was said? Jokes about gays? 
If the players heard that the two had a date it’s definately something they would joke about.

Did they hear that Beach was sexually assaulted? If so I don’t believe they would joke about it. 

 

 

1 hour ago, spook007 said:

So what exactly were they innocent of?

The fact remains they all say they never heard about it, or have no recolection of it... 

Regardless of what exactly they knew, the fact they say they never heard anything, makes them rotten to the core and really pathetic. 

 

If it was only common banter no one remembers if they don’t have a problem/issue before the joke. 

 

1 hour ago, spook007 said:

its not as if they were talking about an every day occourance.... They knew something was going on... can be debated, maybe, how much in details they knew, but they have definotely heard about it. 
And Toews in particular, should have asked the boy if everything was ok. 
i have zero doubt Horvat would have done so.... 

So what did the players know exactly? 

[StanleyCupOneDay]

I want to remind people who think the players are absolved of guilt in this of how a lot of Blackhawks players refused to cooperate with the independent investigation. That to me and most sensible people is an admission that they did do wrong and don’t want others to find out their actions. Otherwise what do you have to lose if you were innocent and could bring details of who was at fault for what.

 

I’m also going to disagree with those who are giving Cheveldayoff a pass. If I hear about sexual harassment as he says he thought it was then you’re damn right I’m going to want to find out the details and then make sure whatever actions taken were appropriate regarding the level of abuse. Seeing sexual harassment as an ok not super important to look further into I’ll trust my bosses to do whatever is needed is a damning look for anyone at any level of management. You have a responsibility as managers to support and protect your employees and to look into any problems they bring forth thoroughly. That is literally your main job to deal with issues. He should have lost his job for not doing his.

 

I hope Toews, Kane, Keith and all the others on the team have this black mark forever stained on whatever legacy they have.

[spook007]

1 hour ago, Timråfan said:

But what was said? Jokes about gays? 
If the players heard that the two had a date it’s definately something they would joke about.

Did they hear that Beach was sexually assaulted? If so I don’t believe they would joke about it. 

 

 

 

If it was only common banter no one remembers if they don’t have a problem/issue before the joke. 

 

So what did the players know exactly? 

Good question... 

as per several players there were talk/jokes going on in the locker room. 
The fact remains that most of the players say they never heard anything about anything...
If talk or jokes were going around that a team mate or work mate of mine were having some sort of sexual relations with another bloke in the place, be it consensual or not, I would remember... wouldn't you?

It was obviously enough for some to state it was common knowledge. 
What exactly was said would have to be asked of the players, but they suddenly have collective amnesia... 

The captain of the team should look after everyone.... thats what a leader does. 

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by spook007

[stanleysteamersmyl]

NHLPA votes in favour of independent investigation into Association's handling of Kyle Beach matter

Will heads roll at the Union office.  Union dues:  Players pay $30 (USD) per day during the regular season.  

[Timråfan]

31 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Good question... 

as per several players there were talk/jokes going on in the locker room. 
The fact remains that most of the players say they never heard anything about anything...
If talk or jokes were going around that a team mate or work mate of mine were having some sort of sexual relations with another bloke in the place, be it consensual or not, I would remember... wouldn't you?

It was obviously enough for some to state it was common knowledge. 
What exactly was said would have to be asked of the players, but they suddenly have collective amnesia... 

The captain of the team should look after everyone.... thats what a leader does. 

 

If one person had heard a rumour and started the banter noone else understood why but went along for the banter. Nothing more…

Why should they remember that after 10 years filled with banter?

The one that started the banter might have known but who was it? 
This look like collective punishment without ny proof.

Beach and maybe a few more was probably very sensitive and remember every word.

But why should the ones that only did some banter wich is something that goes on every day they meet.