Calder trophy busts

[Canuck Luck]

I was just watching pettersson tonight and he has basically been invisible. 

 

He looked awesome in his rookie season and everytime he was on the ice we expected some magic to happen...because so often it did. He was also good in his second season.

 

What are the chances a Calder trophy winner busts?

 

 

There are only a handful of weak players from the last 25 years of Caldy trophy winners.

 

What do you think about Pettersson's future based on the past and his current really poor play?

 

 

[King Heffy]

He'll be fine once he doesn't have Green sabotaging his career.  He's not the only good player struggling right now.

[PetterssonOrPeterson]

Oh wait. Is he playing tonight? 

 

I forgot he even existed.

[Odd.]

Wouldn't call Pettersson a bust but he sure isn't all that.

[Xanlet]

I was saying this before his current contract, the guy has never cracked a point per game season (which dozens of players manage every year) and yet the fans here are so starved for real super star power they think he'll magically grow into a 100 point player AFTER signing his big boy contract. You can't do that. You can't sign a player on a hope and a prayer that he will get better later, he should have gotten $6m MAX until he could prove he can put up more than 66 points in a full season.

[justathought]

   A toddler could push him off the puck and to the ice. Truthfully he is very skilled, when he's on his game, which I hope he finds again.

    I think his agent put a lot of pressure on him to shine and he's not reacting well (an understatement). I'm glad we've only signed him for a few years, if he plays like a superstar and we can't afford his next contract, we'll feast on a trade.

  I, for one, also believe the players are sending a message to management for a coaching change, c'mon Frankie give Green the ol' heave ho!

[khay]

EP's growth has surely stunted. He's playing under a coach that is not putting him in a position to succeed.

 

Right now, Miller is the best forward on this team. He easily plays 20+ minutes on any given night and puts up PPG.

 

But he is not the most skilled forward or has the highest hockey IQ in terms of puck management or vision.

 

Until EP reaches his potential and becomes the best forward, this team is not going anywhere.

 

Problem is that we don't have a coach that knows how to develop a superstar. 

 

I recall reading an article about limiting the Sedins' minutes to about 18 minutes a game when AV was the coach and MG was the GM. I remember a quote from AV stating something along the lines of "...based on research, 18 minutes is when they (Sedins) achieve optimal performance..."

 

Sedins became the superstars that they became thanks to AV.

 

AV put them in a position to succeed and carefully controlled their minutes so that they could perform well.

 

Green is overplaying Miller and Horvat because those two are already fully developed and he isn't able to develop EP anymore. 

 

 

[RU SERIOUS]

4 hours ago, King Heffy said:

He'll be fine once he doesn't have Green sabotaging his career.  He's not the only good player struggling right now.

I agree whole heartedly!   When our new coach is in place, I suspect he and a few of the others will respond.   There's no doubt they are all playing to get Green Fired!

[48MPHSlapShot]

Even if he does somehow get his head on straight again, I don't think he has the physical tools to be the type of superstar we need him to be. I would like to see him playing under a new coach, but at the end of the day we might need to face the idea that he was the wrong horse to bet on and that it might not be worth holding onto him.

Edited November 14, 2021 by 48MPHSlapShot

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, Xanlet said:

I was saying this before his current contract, the guy has never cracked a point per game season (which dozens of players manage every year) and yet the fans here are so starved for real super star power they think he'll magically grow into a 100 point player AFTER signing his big boy contract. You can't do that. You can't sign a player on a hope and a prayer that he will get better later, he should have gotten $6m MAX until he could prove he can put up more than 66 points in a full season.

I also didn't think either player really earned big deals.    But of the two figures EP by far has the higher ceiling .... turns out so far at least,  EPs holes only have gotten bigger which makes little sense ... a slump hopefully that won't last too long.   It's his ability to be pushed around - his biggest hole and knock on him during the draft.    Players have tape on him - so expected after his initial explosion, that it would take until he'd put the time in the gym for him to approach that type of play again.    He should have certain PT goals from the coaching staff.   Squats, deadlifts, bench press - shoulder press...all the power moves that create and increase explosive power.   He's got the height ... doesn't need to bulk right up, but 20lbs is man strength would really change his game.   Harder shot too.   He's got all the skills.    159-172lbs .... 180?  He's a stick at that height.    Drawing penalties helps too i suppose, but that part won't stop. 

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Even if he does somehow get his head on straight again, I don't think he has the physical tools to be the type of superstar we need him to be. I would like to him playing under a new coach, but at the end of the day we might need to face the idea that he was the wrong horse to bet on and that it might not be worth holding onto him.

At this point it's 100% Miller.    I'd rather have two Millers right now then one of each.     EP is entering his fourth season.   That's often when a player breaks out.   Or has a significant bump in production. We've come to expect around a PGP from EP...that's still well within his range with a couple multi point games ... but i'd rather have the EP that also was solid defensively and when he wasn't on the scoreboard, made some exciting plays and a solid goal/scoring chance negated.   Think he's a little off this year (again!) which is concerning.   I hope he's putting the time into his craft in the off season.   Elite and the best players never stop practicing.   Most of them are also the hard workers off the ice. 

[IBatch]

Jackman, Mason and Raycroft turned into the biggest "busts" of those groups.   Also Gomez had his "career year" year one as well (rare but it happens...Selanne did too lol not that anyone can really expect that every season).   

 

EP should be fine with time.   Like that he bet on himself.    Don't like that he's not playing for that 10 million dollar deal so many on this site thought he'd already earned (and i was dead set against).   Those guys have to earn it first - and actually he a top five player by position.    Entering this season EP is around 14-16th .... and getting paid right about what that's worth too for number one centre's.   More really given he shares that with Miller. 

Edited November 14, 2021 by IBatch

[Crimson-JH]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Jackman, Mason and Raycroft turned into the biggest "busts" of those groups.   Also Gomez had his "career year" year one as well (rare but it happens...Selanne did too lol not that anyone can really expect that every season).   

 

EP should be fine with time.   Like that he bet on himself.    Don't like that he's not playing for that 10 million dollar deal so many on this site thought he'd already earned (and i was dead set against).   Those guys have to earn it first - and actually he a top five player by position.    Entering this season EP is around 14-16th .... and getting paid right about what that's worth too for number one centre's.   More really given he shares that with Miller. 

You forgot Myers and Skinner too.

People were expecting Myers to be similar to Zdeno Chara due to his structure. Right now he look like one giant pylon on the ice.

[IBatch]

26 minutes ago, Crimson-JH said:

You forgot Myers and Skinner too.

People were expecting Myers to be similar to Zdeno Chara due to his structure. Right now he look like one giant pylon on the ice.

Not really.   Those guys are both a level up from them.    Myers > Jackman.   Chara also was just becoming a premier defender then...and started as a goon.  Not a great comp.   Good for you ripping on a player who's earned his paycheque's, the same way Edler did though.   He's a lot faster and that paid OEL/Myers is so far at least, one of the better ones we've had in quite awhile.    Not sure why you'd include Skinner in that group either... might as well add Gomez ... Samsonov ... Berard and maybe even Drury (who at least was on good teams and had some clutch to him).  

 

Edit: Skinner and Berard were both hampered by injuries too.  Berard like Ohlund.  Skinner like Crosby.   Funny thing is ... 700 games is the scouts "bust" threshold for first overalls.   How many of these guys were drafted first overall? 

Edited November 14, 2021 by IBatch

[MaxVerstappen33]

Haha l knew the Petterson doom would roll on to new depths. He will be fine.

[MaxVerstappen33]

16 hours ago, Canuck Luck said:

I was just watching pettersson tonight and he has basically been invisible. 

 

He looked awesome in his rookie season and everytime he was on the ice we expected some magic to happen...because so often it did. He was also good in his second season.

 

What are the chances a Calder trophy winner busts?

 

 

There are only a handful of weak players from the last 25 years of Caldy trophy winners.

 

What do you think about Pettersson's future based on the past and his current really poor play?

 

 

Can you pick out the handfull ? Who ? Maybe... Raycroft ? But he's a goalie. What about Calder winning Forwards ? Is there one bust ?

[Junkyard Dog]

1 minute ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

Haha l knew the Petterson doom would roll on to new depths. He will be fine.

He sucks but if he sucks 2 years in a row then we know for certain what kind of player we got in him. 

 

Almost all of our youngsters have had a season of sucking but bounced back. Hughes/Boeser/Horvat.

 

Definitely concerned for Petey though and he needs to get his act together. I am surprised he hasn't been scratched for a game yet, young talent has been before in the league for less.

[MaxVerstappen33]

6 hours ago, Crimson-JH said:

You forgot Myers and Skinner too.

People were expecting Myers to be similar to Zdeno Chara due to his structure. Right now he look like one giant pylon on the ice.

So 2 goalies and maybe 2 defeneman were Calder busts. Skinner got 40 goals in 2019. That's 9 years after entering the NHL. Bust ? Hell no.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

9 hours ago, IBatch said:

Jackman, Mason and Raycroft turned into the biggest "busts" of those groups.   Also Gomez had his "career year" year one as well (rare but it happens...Selanne did too lol not that anyone can really expect that every season).   

 

EP should be fine with time.   Like that he bet on himself.    Don't like that he's not playing for that 10 million dollar deal so many on this site thought he'd already earned (and i was dead set against).   Those guys have to earn it first - and actually he a top five player by position.    Entering this season EP is around 14-16th .... and getting paid right about what that's worth too for number one centre's.   More really given he shares that with Miller. 

Raycroft still was able to "fix himself" later on his career to a solid cheap backup goalie for us.  Won't forget the trolling he did to Laff-Fans upon his return:

 

 

Edited November 14, 2021 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Kevin Biestra]

Let's go back to 1970...

 

Tier 1 - 1st Ballot HOF Legends

 

Gil Perreault

Ken Dryden

Tony Esposito

Denis Potvin

Bryan Trottier

Mike Bossy

Ray Bourque

Peter Stastny

Dale Hawerchuk

Mario Lemieux

Luc Robitaille

Brian Leetch

Ed Belfour

Pavel Bure

Teemu Selanne

Martin Brodeur

Peter Forsberg

Alex Ovechkin

Evgeni Malkin

Patrick Kane

Nathan MacKinnon (probably)

Cale Makar (probably)

 

Tier 2 - Legends / Great Players / HOF Borderline

 

Joe Nieuwendyk

Bobby Smith

Steve Larmer

Tom Barrasso

Sergei Makarov

Daniel Alfredsson

Gary Suter

Artemi Panarin (probably tier 1 or 2)

Jonathan Huberdeau (probably tier 2 or 3)

 

Tier 3 - Rock Solid Excellent Careers

 

Chris Drury

Scott Gomez

Dany Heatley

Aaron Ekblad (probably)

Gabriel Landeskog

Evgeni Nabokov

Jeff Skinner (maybe borderline with tier 4)

Steve Mason (maybe borderline with tier 4)

Steve Vickers

 

Tier 4 - Decent to Solid NHLers

 

Eric Vail (top of this tier)

Willi Plett

Tyler Myers

Barret Jackman

Sergei Samsonov

 

Tier 5 - Middling NHL Career

 

Bryan Berard (top of this tier)

Andrew Raycroft (bottom of this tier)

 

Tier 6 - Doggy Doo

 

Nobody really.

 

Tier ? - Too Early To Know

 

Kirill Kaprizov

Elias Pettersson

Matthew Barzal

 

 

 

So...there really aren't many busts as Calder winners.  Once you've succeeded in the NHL at that level, there isn't much left to chance and development.  Tiers 4 and 5 are low achievers for Calder winners, and even they did fairly well.

 

 

Edited November 14, 2021 by Kevin Biestra