[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[Gawdzukes]

28 minutes ago, kloubek said:

He eats minutes and holds guys against the boards well. He's an average defender and has the capability of putting up at least *some* points - though inconsistently. He's overpaid for what he brings and I think aGent is quite right in the fact he's just doesn't fit into our system whereby we require more role players rather than an all-rounder.

In my opinion, this is what we need:
Hughes *1*
OEL *2*
*3* Schenn

#1 would be a sizable (preferably quite sizable) defense-first partner. He must be capable of keeping the puck moving with good passing, and have at least decent speed. I think we can afford to spend a reasonable amount for this kind of guy, and I'll say again my eyes are on Manson.
#2, would be similar to #1, but doesn't need to be quite as big nor quite as fast - although speed and size remain needs of the team as a whole. Should be priced anywhere from $2m-$3.5m. I'm thinking a guy like Mikey Anderson, Nick Jensen.
#1 and #2 could be interchangeable, depending on the right fit, but I'd prefer to have a big guy like Manson playing with Hughes to ensure nobody takes liberties.
#3 would be a puck-moving d-man. If Rathbone manages to be full-time next season, I think he fits here well.

Hughes Manson
OEL Anderson/Jensen
Rathbone Schenn

Obviously OEL is the contract that stands out as not quite paying for itself, but I don't think there is much we can do about that. Otherwise, it's reasonably priced, and allows the players to play to their strengths rather than have to compensate for a lacking partner.
 

Yeah, on Myers I'm likely not being entirely rational. For me I just hit a point with some guys where I want them gone. Myers is in that boat. I cringe every time he touches the puck in our own end. People like to say he eats minutes, which he does but he also makes tonnes of mistakes and boneheaded plays when he plays those big minutes. So I'm not sure that's helping or hindering. He has a hard time processing the speed of the game when the puck first drops let alone after 24 min toi. 3rd line 18 min a game. Perfect. Anymore he turns into a liability for me. One thing people should take into account is like Miller's upcoming contract in which he'll be overpaid for the last several years these are the years of Myers we're talking about. The last 2 years of his third contract. So it's expected he's going to be a bit overpaid.

 

I like your setup and that's my preference as well. Jensen I like but Anderson is a lefty. I'm not a fan off offside dmen. We've seen it tried in Van with pretty poor results. 

 

 

[kloubek]

3 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

I like your setup and that's my preference as well. Jensen I like but Anderson is a lefty. I'm not a fan off offside dmen. We've seen it tried in Van with pretty poor results. 

Fair point there - I didn't even look! (Obvious oversight)

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, eeeeergh said:

I think they're gonna keep Rathbone, they want to see what he can do. There's a decent chance he can far out-contribute his ELC value. 

Could definitely see Forbort as Hughes' partner. Happy to have a bit of an a-hole playing alongside Hughes. 

Rathbone-Dermott looks like the third pair. 

Hughes-Forbort
OEL-Manson
Rathbone-Dermott

Too much to ask?
 

Yikes, that's five lefties isn't it?

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, mll said:

Smith is listed as a C but has actually always played wing.  

Oh thanks. Shows what I know lol. I thought he played C in Nashville? I always liked his physical in your face play combined with a nose for the net.

[mll]

2 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Oh thanks. Shows what I know lol. I thought he played C in Nashville? I always liked his physical in your face play combined with a nose for the net.

Was a winger in Nashville. 

[Me_]

1 hour ago, JM_ said:

Sat Shaw was saying yesterday it was Lundkvist, Chytil and a 1st. Thats a pretty meh return imo, and we can do just as well once teams get to talk extension with Miller.

 

Small RHD, struggling bottom 6 C and a late 1st? 

 

 

 

You’re taking our best player.

 

Therefore:

 

NYR

Miller

 

VAN

Lafreniere

Chytil

Kravtsov

1st

 

Canucks re-sign Miller.

 

Edited May 20, 2022 by Me_

[Gawdzukes]

15 minutes ago, kloubek said:

Fair point there - I didn't even look! (Obvious oversight)

I sure do think Anderson would be a good player to have though and I like your money breakdown. We need to fill the #2 and #3 RD and number #3 LD, #7, and #8 cheaply to offset Hughes, OEL, and someone real gud on RD.

[MeanSeanBean]

52 minutes ago, JM_ said:

really? smallish RHD that isn't working out for NYR and a struggling Chytil? not sure why we'd want either guy. 

 

a late 1st is the throw-in we'd expect from any team. We can get pieces that fit our needs better than these two. 

Why do you say he's not working out? He had a rocky start in the NHL, but from what I gathered was able to really pull it together in the AHL. I'm not particularly surprised it took an undersized offensive D learning the north american game a little bit to figure it out. I think he has top 4 potential for sure. He isn't really the type of prospect we need in the system, but I still think he's an extremely good prospect to have in your system. If he was in our pool, I'd say he would be our best prospect. 

 

 

 

I don't know a ton about Chytil, but I like his age and size. His underlying numbers have been developing which means he's becoming more responsible on the ice. A regression this year offensively, but kinda expected when you have a shooting % under 6, nearly half of what it was in his previous year.

 

A first round pick is a first round pick.

 

I'd definitely consider that "a fine package".

[eeeeergh]

1 hour ago, Gawdzukes said:

Yikes, that's five lefties isn't it?

My bad, for some reason I thought Forbort was a R. Scratch that idea.

Dermott playing on the right seems fine, but don't want that many lefties, you're right. 

[Warhippy]

Taylor hall was traded in 2019.  The return was Bahl, Merkely, Schnall and a 1st and 3rd while on the last year of a $6 million deal

 

If Miller isn't getting that or better tell other teams to kick rocks

[Kobayashi Maru]

For me I would do either of the following:

 

Schneider, Chytil, Kravtsov

 

or

 

Kakko, Lundkvist, Kravtsov

 

Basically we need one stronger piece than what was offered, and Kravtsov instead of the 1st since it's not a very deep draft.  To me, either of those would move the needle to make it make sense for us. 

[Me_]

8 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Taylor hall was traded in 2019.  The return was Bahl, Merkely, Schnall and a 1st and 3rd while on the last year of a $6 million deal

 

If Miller isn't getting that or better tell other teams to kick rocks

This.

[JM_]

2 hours ago, Shayster007 said:

Why do you say he's not working out? He had a rocky start in the NHL, but from what I gathered was able to really pull it together in the AHL. I'm not particularly surprised it took an undersized offensive D learning the north american game a little bit to figure it out. I think he has top 4 potential for sure. He isn't really the type of prospect we need in the system, but I still think he's an extremely good prospect to have in your system. If he was in our pool, I'd say he would be our best prospect. 

 

 

 

I don't know a ton about Chytil, but I like his age and size. His underlying numbers have been developing which means he's becoming more responsible on the ice. A regression this year offensively, but kinda expected when you have a shooting % under 6, nearly half of what it was in his previous year.

 

A first round pick is a first round pick.

 

I'd definitely consider that "a fine package".

fair enough, I was underwhelmed but I'm hoping to gain some bigger players for the team out of a Miller deal. We have lots of small skill. 

[Bobby James]

2 hours ago, Me_ said:

You’re taking our best player.

 

Therefore:

 

NYR

Miller

 

VAN

Lafreniere

Chytil

Kravtsov

1st

NYR never do a deal like this. Not calling you out specifically though, I've seen a ton of people this past season making proposals like this and it just seems so unlikely. Someone posted the rumored offer above and that seems far more realistic (agreed on us passing on it though, rather we continued our playoff push with Miller).

I like Miller a lot and think he has good trade value, but if Vancouver pulled this type of trade off it would be a massive robbery. 

 

If it was the other way around it would look roughly something like this: 

 

To Van:
Zibanejad (entering prime now, great season, excellent playoffs so far)

To NY:
Podkolzin

Hoglander

Linus Karlsson 

1st round pick 

 

(Vancouver says no thanks and hangs up) 
 

That would be a lot of youth to give up for a vet in his prime. Podz isn't even equal to Laf (at the moment), but we'd have a more valuable 1st then them so I felt this was somewhat comparable 

Edited May 20, 2022 by Bobby James

[JM_]

2 hours ago, Me_ said:

You’re taking our best player.

 

Therefore:

 

NYR

Miller

 

VAN

Lafreniere

Chytil

Kravtsov

1st

 

Canucks re-sign Miller.

 

thats a nice idea, but I would think Miller extending with NYR would be part of the deal. 

[Bobby James]

Just now, JM_ said:

thats a nice idea, but I would think Miller extending with NYR would be part of the deal. 

Agreed having an extension in place may be a big part for lots of teams looking to acquire Miller if they are trading a haul for him in the first place. 

An extension is likely less important if Canucks are just looking for a prospect and a 1st to move him. 

[MeanSeanBean]

13 minutes ago, JM_ said:

fair enough, I was underwhelmed but I'm hoping to gain some bigger players for the team out of a Miller deal. We have lots of small skill. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm hoping for more as well. I just wouldn't have been surprised if they very seriously concidered that deal for Miller. Our current biggest team needs, in my opinion, are a RHD and a 3rd line center. This trade would have addressed 2 big issues with this team, which would be a good start.

 

I think we will see a trade this summer better then this, but if this is offered for Miller I won't start a riot.

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Shayster007 said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm hoping for more as well. I just wouldn't have been surprised if they very seriously concidered that deal for Miller. Our current biggest team needs, in my opinion, are a RHD and a 3rd line center. This trade would have addressed 2 big issues with this team, which would be a good start.

 

I think we will see a trade this summer better then this, but if this is offered for Miller I won't start a riot.

maybe if Chytil was a right shot I'd be more interested... 

 

I wonder what other deals were on the table, this may not have been the best one. 

[MeanSeanBean]

33 minutes ago, JM_ said:

maybe if Chytil was a right shot I'd be more interested... 

 

I wonder what other deals were on the table, this may not have been the best one. 

It's possible there was another, better deal on the table. Personally, I don't think so. This is essentially the exact trade that was rumored all those months ago. Finding out now that it was true, makes me believe that it was the trade that was the closest to happening. 

[wai_lai416]

1 hour ago, Bobby James said:

NYR never do a deal like this. Not calling you out specifically though, I've seen a ton of people this past season making proposals like this and it just seems so unlikely. Someone posted the rumored offer above and that seems far more realistic (agreed on us passing on it though, rather we continued our playoff push with Miller).

I like Miller a lot and think he has good trade value, but if Vancouver pulled this type of trade off it would be a massive robbery. 

 

If it was the other way around it would look roughly something like this: 

 

To Van:
Zibanejad (entering prime now, great season, excellent playoffs so far)

To NY:
Podkolzin

Hoglander

Linus Karlsson 

1st round pick 

 

(Vancouver says no thanks and hangs up) 
 

That would be a lot of youth to give up for a vet in his prime. Podz isn't even equal to Laf (at the moment), but we'd have a more valuable 1st then them so I felt this was somewhat comparable 

lol ur comparison is way off.. the trade from rangers is literally 4 1st rounders including the 1st overall pick whos starting to come on.. 19 goals playing 14 mins a night? 5 points in 8 playoff games is not shabby either.. love how fans here think lafreniere is worth barely anything and the rangers would just give him away. 

 

i'm not sure how podz (1st rounder) hoglander (2nd rounder) Karlsson (3rd rounder) and a 1st is anything even remotely close to what people are suggesting as a minimum from rangers for miller.. a mid 1st rounder vs a mid/late 1st rounder tbh is not that big of a difference.. you are hoping to randomly get a player and hit the jackpot.. 

 

i love lafreniere and i think he would do well here in van playing with EP but i think Miller for Laffy + 1st rangers prolly think about it and decline let alone adding chytil and kravtsov. it's a classic case of CDC undervaluing every player in the league that's not on the canucks and think they are all worth peanuts. i loved to have a 20 year old that only plays avg 14 mins a night that can put up 19 goals and on a team friendly ELC