[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

I still think if Miller goes it’ll include a 2023 pick but it really looks like management want to make the move without taking a big step back, which means skilled roster player(s).  
 

Me?  I think you need to use a forward to find a long term Hughes RHD. More important than picks. Doesn’t necessarily need to be Miller but he’s the obvious choice.  

With the contracts a lot of these RFA (and coming UFA) forwards are signing I see Garland’s value going up to where he could return a partner for Hughes.  

[Doxm]

I'll be honest here - I'm really confused on what this management group is trying to accomplish.. tomorrow is going to be a huge day, there's a lot of improvements that need to be done. My gut tells me they stand pat and do nothing, which makes no sense to me. 

[73 Percent]

15 minutes ago, mll said:

 

Further quotes in the final article:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/canucks-free-agency-preview-with-limited-cap-room-building-depth-is-priority/

 

“We haven't cleared as much cap space as we would have liked to,” Canucks president Jim Rutherford, who replaced Jim Benning as the head of hockey operations last December, told Sportsnet on Sunday. “We'll be active on Wednesday to a certain point, but we're not going to be in on the big guys — the real big guys. We'll look for complementary players and build more depth and things like that. But we're not in the position that we had hoped to be at this point in time.”

 

“You can clear cap space if you're giving up assets,” Rutherford said. “But we're trying to build assets. So, you know, we get a little bit caught up here. At this point, we've just decided to let it run its course until (a trade) potentially could come along to do that. But it's not going to come along prior to the first day of free agency.”

So much for big changes looming. I'm not impressed with this management whatsoever. What's the game plan here then? Sign Miller to a rediculous contract that creates even less cap? Then ride his 8 year contract out because it's impossible to clear cap anymore? 2030. That's when we'll strike.

[NorthWestNuck]

1 minute ago, ilduce39 said:

Miller must still have his acquisition price of “1st and 3rd” as a pure rental. Probably a little bit more but obviously still a step or two less than the windfall management was hoping for.  
 

With them not letting teams talk contract I can see why the offers fall short.  The mind boggling thing is - if Miller has his mind set on a destination, why are we still saying we’re resigning him? Unless he really does want to stay or, say, go to somewhere that apparently isn’t Long Island.

Word is Canucks have now given teams permission to talk extension with Miller. I believe it was Friedman (sp?) saying it in an interview, but don’t remember so take it with a grain of salt, but I think management has given a tiny bit of ground to see if they can get a bit more in an offer for Miller.

[Goal:thecup]

7 minutes ago, Alflives said:

650 saying the Cowpies have upped their offer to Garden Gnome to north of 80 million.  Johnny has until midnight to accept, or he is considered a UFA and he can no longer accept that extra year, so all offers would be seven years max.  Stinky City has made it so Gnome Boy will be giving up 10 million to not sign.  Wee Johnny is very likely to stay in Texas North. 

I sure hope so; love watching him limp to the bench whinging and whining.

[ilduce39]

Just now, NorthWestNuck said:

Word is Canucks have now given teams permission to talk extension with Miller. I believe it was Friedman (sp?) saying it in an interview, but don’t remember so take it with a grain of salt, but I think management has given a tiny bit of ground to see if they can get a bit more in an offer for Miller.

Thanks, That’s really good to hear - was a huge head scratcher before.  You’d think he’d be interested in re-upping with the contender-style teams who are interested in him.  They’re all good clubs.

[N4ZZY]

Was listening to 650, and the guys were talking about how if Miller was resigned, and Brock was just resigned and negotiations are going well with Bo. They can’t afford all three of those guys. Is that true? I guess that depends on what the cap hit is with Miller right? Brock signed for less than what many thought he’d sign for, and Bo could very well sign a hometown team discount moving forward. 

 

Miller is the wildcard here. If the team resigns him, he’s probably their highest paid player, but at what cost? Will his contract be an anchor the older he gets? Would it be moveable down the road? How does his signing prevent signing Petey long term after his current deal runs out? 

 

[N4ZZY]

7 minutes ago, NorthWestNuck said:

Word is Canucks have now given teams permission to talk extension with Miller. I believe it was Friedman (sp?) saying it in an interview, but don’t remember so take it with a grain of salt, but I think management has given a tiny bit of ground to see if they can get a bit more in an offer for Miller.

Oh. Why did management wait until now? Is it because teams couldn’t talk to Miller about a long term contract until tomorrow? 

 

Nevertheless, this is good news for the club moving forward. I agree that it might give the team better offers moving forward. Here’s to something getting down either him resigning with the club on a team friendly, or JT being moved. I’m still betting on the latter. 

 

[Westcoastcanucks777]

12 minutes ago, Doxm said:

I'll be honest here - I'm really confused on what this management group is trying to accomplish.. tomorrow is going to be a huge day, there's a lot of improvements that need to be done. My gut tells me they stand pat and do nothing, which makes no sense to me. 

Oh no!

[Spoosh]

6 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

So much for big changes looming. I'm not impressed with this management whatsoever. What's the game plan here then? Sign Miller to a rediculous contract that creates even less cap? Then ride his 8 year contract out because it's impossible to clear cap anymore? 2030. That's when we'll strike.

How can you (or people here in general) possibly be upset at someone -management group in this case, for something that has not happened? Seems a bir unfair doesn’t it, as it may not occur at all.

 

The season starts late in the fall and we are a long way from that moment. A lot will still happen on every team between now and then and to my understanding there has been no indication of a 8-year deal for Miller.

 

Relax everyone.

[Harold Drunken]

1 hour ago, Doxm said:

I'll be honest here - I'm really confused on what this management group is trying to accomplish.. tomorrow is going to be a huge day, there's a lot of improvements that need to be done. My gut tells me they stand pat and do nothing, which makes no sense to me. 

With just over $2 million in cap room, there's not much they can do regardless unless it means moving contracts out. But that means players leaving. Some folks on here want more cap room and want to add more players but they also don't want to see anyone traded. You can't get one without the other when your cash strapped and some on here want it both ways. This team still have to fill out it's 4th line.

 

Pearson $3.25

Dickinson $2.625

Poolman $2.5

Myers $6

 

= $14.375m

 

Some think Myers can't be replaced, fact of the matter is that he can if we just had a little more cap to spend. $4-6 could be spent on a defenseman with comparable defensive play to Myers? You would 100% have to replace him though, this is all to create cap space mind you. It really depends what you're trying to achieve.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 12, 2022 by Harold Drunken

[Harold Drunken]

52 minutes ago, NorthWestNuck said:

Word is Canucks have now given teams permission to talk extension with Miller. I believe it was Friedman (sp?) saying it in an interview, but don’t remember so take it with a grain of salt, but I think management has given a tiny bit of ground to see if they can get a bit more in an offer for Miller.

It was indeed Freidman. 

[DrJockitch]

1 hour ago, Coconuts said:

Following up what I was saying, sometimes you take a good return that isn't a "home run". If you're always trying to outright win every trade it's unlikely you'll make very many.

 

A recent example is the Debrincat trade. Chicago got the 7th and 39th picks this year and a third in 2024 for a player who's scored 41 goals twice in the last four years and who scored 32 goals in 52 games the season before last.

 

From what I gather from Reddit Sens fans are over the moon and see it as a huge win, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a good trade for a rebuilding Hawks club. Every trade doesn't have to be a home run if it effectively fills your needs.

That was a terrible return for Chicago. They gave him away for magic beans. That team is over-ripe with prospects and they got none. 
Of course Ottawa fans are over the moon.  Two picks in a weak draft and a third in a couple years for a 40G scorer who is young. 

Edited July 12, 2022 by DrJockitch

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Harold Drunken said:

With just over $2 million in cap room, there's not much they can do regardless unless it means moving contracts out. But that means players leaving. Some folks on here want more cap room and want to add more players but they also don't want to see anyone traded. You can't get one without the other when your cash strapped and some on here want it both ways. 

 

 

I think some fans are starting to see it’s going to take JR/Allvin several years to “unravel” the Benning 8 years.  Benning very much messed up our team in many ways.  

[Coconuts]

1 minute ago, DrJockitch said:

That was a terrible return for Chicago. They gave him away for magic beans. That team is over-ripe with prospects and they got none. 
Of course Ottawa fans are over the moon.  Two picks in a weak draft and a third in a couple years for a 40G scorer who is young. 

Pettersson, Makar, Seider, Podz, and so on were all the result of these magic beans you spit on. Chicago's management clearly sees value in shipping out players for picks, Columbus did as well given they wound up with Chicago's high pick via Seth Jones. 

 

It's wild how folks will drool over players who are often the result of first round picks and simultaneously write said picks off as "magic beans". Hell, Miller himself was a "magic bean" at one point. 

[ilduce39]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I think some fans are starting to see it’s going to take JR/Allvin several years to “unravel” the Benning 8 years.  Benning very much messed up our team in many ways.  

If they wanted to lower prices, ship guys out to take a big step back for 2023 / clear the books they could do it fairly easily. 

The trick is adding to a competitive team, which is difficult for anyone under a hard salary cap. 
 

Management’s priority seems to be:

 

1) stay competitive / make playoffs

 

2) restock the prospect pool

 

3) clear cap space 

 

As the cap is the least important to them, it’s also the least likely to happen.  
 

As for bad contracts, you have Dickinson who all the stats nerds loved last offseason  so hopefully he can bounce back and Ferland who has 1 year left. 
 

Everyone else has value either in trade or to the club.  That’s part of the frustration I think - people want Myers, Poolman and Pearson gone as well but I don’t think management wants to move those guys.

 

[Harold Drunken]

17 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

If they wanted to lower prices, ship guys out to take a big step back for 2023 / clear the books they could do it fairly easily. 

The trick is adding to a competitive team, which is difficult for anyone under a hard salary cap. 
 

Management’s priority seems to be:

 

1) stay competitive / make playoffs

 

2) restock the prospect pool

 

3) clear cap space 

 

As the cap is the least important to them, it’s also the least likely to happen.  
 

As for bad contracts, you have Dickinson who all the stats nerds loved last offseason  so hopefully he can bounce back and Ferland who has 1 year left. 
 

Everyone else has value either in trade or to the club.  That’s part of the frustration I think - people want Myers, Poolman and Pearson gone as well but I don’t think management wants to move those guys.

 

Problem is, being a competitive playoff team while making the playoffs every year while adding young talent and re-stocking the cupboards doesn't really go hand in hand.

 

Also, you can't remain competitive, make the playoffs, restock the pool and clear cap space all at the same time - that would be very very difficult to juggle. Teams making the playoffs and pushing to compete aren't clearing large amounts of cap space - they are typically making trades to get better now which often involves picks and prospects.  

 

They are also on record many times saying one of their top priorities is creating cap flexibility - so cap space is not a low priority, it's very high.

Edited July 12, 2022 by Harold Drunken

[johngould21]

5 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said:

Problem is, being a competitive playoff team while making the playoffs every year while adding young talent and re-stocking the cupboards doesn't really go hand in hand.

 

Also, you can't remain competitive, make the playoffs, restock the pool and clear cap space all at the same time - that would be very very difficult to juggle. Teams making the playoffs and pushing compete aren't clearing large amounts of cap space - they are typically making trades to get better now which often involves picks and prospects.  

 

They are also on record many times saying one of their top priorities is creating cap flexibility - so cap space is not a low priority, it's very high.

BB wasn't brought back to coach a developing team. He got JB's team close to a playoff spot, but Horvat's injury prevented most of that from happening.

Edited July 12, 2022 by johngould21

[DrJockitch]

12 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Pettersson, Makar, Seider, Podz, and so on were all the result of these magic beans you spit on. Chicago's management clearly sees value in shipping out players for picks, Columbus did as well given they wound up with Chicago's high pick via Seth Jones. 

 

It's wild how folks will drool over players who are often the result of first round picks and simultaneously write said picks off as "magic beans". Hell, Miller himself was a "magic bean" at one point. 

The point is the return was very low for the asset they had. Sorry if you don’t like the rhetoric. 
‘They should have been able to mine much more than a first, second and down the row third. They should have been able to get at least a first, a first round level established prospect and probably a decent asset on top of that. 
The 7th OA was the only piece they got of significant value for a player of this level and that is just bad management that also depresses the market for us. 
This was a 24 year old 40+ goal scorer (an actual one not a “30” goal scorer like Brock) under control for several more years. That would have been a barely acceptable/poor return for JTM much less a younger, contract controlled player who has had a better early career. 

[Harold Drunken]

4 minutes ago, johngould21 said:

BB wasn't brought back to coach a developing team. He got JB's team close to a playoff spot, but Horvat's injury prevented most of that from happening.

JR and PA are on record multiple times stating they want to clear cap space and it's a high priority...don't know how else to say that - it's from their mouths not mine.

 

Demko masked a ton of faults and holes. He made this team look better than it is on paper. This team nowhere near the playoffs if he doesn't stand on his head night in and night out. That doesn't mean we are a good playoff team, means he have an amazing goalie who props us up higher than we should be. We are moving in the right direction and our young core is locked up, but pieces need to be added...which is hard with $2million in cap space. 

Edited July 12, 2022 by Harold Drunken