[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[Gawdzukes]

16 minutes ago, JM_ said:

we'd be building that playoff experience tho. No need to put that off, imo.

 

Man Jimbo left us in a pickle, with some shite choices to have to make. 

Neither are great situations. I think regrouping is the best choice. If this was still JB's team then yeah sure step er down until the wheels falls off. But we have a new management group. Hopefully they have a different plan or I don't see why we even changed JB.

[smithers joe]

i think it is easy, if you can sign him good, if you can't, move him. don't lose him for nothing.

[Curmudgeon]

Just now, smithers joe said:

i think it is easy, if you can sign him good, if you can't, move him. don't lose him for nothing.

That's the logical move, Joe, but teams who could use Miller to push them over the top and to a Stanley Cup are mostly all capped out and can't afford him. I do wonder about Carolina, now that Pacioretty is out until at least mid-February. Maybe they send us Pesce and we'll call it even. (in my dreams)

[JM_]

41 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Neither are great situations. I think regrouping is the best choice. If this was still JB's team then yeah sure step er down until the wheels falls off. But we have a new management group. Hopefully they have a different plan or I don't see why we even changed JB.

its pretty tough to make year over year changes barring either a big teardown, or you got gifted cap space somehow.

 

I do see some smarter moves in the F group additions, e.g. Say we do move Miller (still the most likely scenario) maybe @Coconuts is right and that F group is still good enough to be a wildcard team from a F group perspective. Thats only thanks to the new additions. 

 

On d its so much harder. They tried to move Myers, no takers. So unless you're willing to burn a serious asset you're stuck. Benning would have burned a major asset.

 

So this years bright light will have to be Rathbone. Lets say he does look ready to be a 4/5. Maybe then you can play with ideas like an OEL-Hughes top pair. 

[aGENT]

3 hours ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

I've watched every single game since 2004. WHEN I lived in Montpellier, I would get up at 4 am and watch the games live. I've also kept a close eye on solid players being buried on middling teams and never reaching their potential, mainly due to a franchise CULTURE of losing, country club feeling etc... I don't want that for any of our players. 

 

The defense needs work, sure. It was good though, and much better than people anticipated starting the season. Yes, a lot of the credit goes to Demko. However, once OEL settled in, he was solid in transition, started putting up points and was a leader. Hughes' defensive role grew considerably this year, and he's established himself as a reliable defenseman in his end. 

 

The bottom pairing needs work; Poolman's injury played a part in that, and Hamonic's drama didn't help either. Chemistry wasn't able to be formed, and we relied on career journeymen like Burroughs and Hunt to be regular contributors. That was just unfortunate.  Myers also took an incredibly steep dive on the offensive side, and in transition. He was strong in his end but that offensive loss was brutal. 

 

What I guess I'm saying is, the defense isn't perfect, but our team has the tools in place to make noise. If a Miller deal makes sense and nets us a strong top 2-3 RHD, do it. They're just not available, and better yet, Miller is doing so much good for our team that a significant portion of the fanbase doesn't think it's absolutely necessary to get rid of him to have success.

 

It's just not that black and white. I want what's best for the team and I think retaining Miller is a reasonable thing to do. They aren't mutually exclusive ideas. 

The defense is probably about 15-20th in the league. Average, or slightly below. Certainly not awful, but not great either.

 

The real problems are fit and succession. Myers, a perfectly fine 2nd pair D, doesn't fit well with Hughes or OEL and $6m is too much to have on our 3rd pair/prevents us from fixing that.

 

He also expires in 2 seasons. Schenn after this one. We're a couple very short years from having something like Poolman, Juulsen, Woo as our right side. With currently no succession plan to replace those guys.

 

THAT is what needs fixing. THAT is what "sucks" about our defense.

Edited August 10, 2022 by aGENT

[aGENT]

44 minutes ago, JM_ said:

On d its so much harder. They tried to move Myers, no takers. So unless you're willing to burn a serious asset you're stuck. Benning would have burned a major asset.

I think we could easily move Myers. We'd just need to take cap back/have it be a useful player.

[canuck73_3]

23 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I think we could easily move Myers. We'd just need to take cap back/have it be a useful player.

The only issue moving Myers is we would have to replace him with a competent dman as well with limited options to do so. 

[aGENT]

51 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

The only issue moving Myers is we would have to replace him with a competent dman as well with limited options to do so. 

 

Yeah we either have to have a RHD coming back from a Miller, Garland or similar trade, or perhaps there's a team with a more defensive inclined D, looking for a a more "all around" D in Myers, that we could swap. But moving him isn't itself a roadblock IMO.

[stawns]

2 hours ago, Curmudgeon said:

That's the logical move, Joe, but teams who could use Miller to push them over the top and to a Stanley Cup are mostly all capped out and can't afford him. I do wonder about Carolina, now that Pacioretty is out until at least mid-February. Maybe they send us Pesce and we'll call it even. (in my dreams)

Miller for a year, under $3m is a huve addition to a team like Col, NYR, Canes, bolts etc etc

[stawns]

1 hour ago, canuck73_3 said:

The only issue moving Myers is we would have to replace him with a competent dman as well with limited options to do so. 

Yeah, I see no logical reason to move Myers

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, Curmudgeon said:

That's the logical move, Joe, but teams who could use Miller to push them over the top and to a Stanley Cup are mostly all capped out and can't afford him. I do wonder about Carolina, now that Pacioretty is out until at least mid-February. Maybe they send us Pesce and we'll call it even. (in my dreams)

Miller ($2m retained) for Necas, Morrow and a 1st is basically cap neutral.

 

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

Yeah, I see no logical reason to move Myers

There's plenty of logical reasons.

 

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

The defense is probably about 15-20th in the league. Average, or slightly below. Certainly not awful, but not great either.

 

The real problems are fit and succession. Myers, a perfectly fine 2nd pair D, doesn't fit well with Hughes or OEL and $6m is too much to have on our 3rd pair/prevents us from fixing that.

 

He also expires in 2 seasons. Schenn after this one. We're a couple very short years from having something like Poolman, Juulsen, Woo as our right side. With currently no succession plan to replace those guys.

 

THAT is what needs fixing. THAT is what "sucks" about our defense.

But yes, we need to have some sort of replacement lined up as well, or as part of that trade.

[NHL97OneTimer]

3 hours ago, JM_ said:

its pretty tough to make year over year changes barring either a big teardown, or you got gifted cap space somehow.

 

I do see some smarter moves in the F group additions, e.g. Say we do move Miller (still the most likely scenario) maybe @Coconuts is right and that F group is still good enough to be a wildcard team from a F group perspective. Thats only thanks to the new additions. 

 

On d its so much harder. They tried to move Myers, no takers. So unless you're willing to burn a serious asset you're stuck. Benning would have burned a major asset.

 

So this years bright light will have to be Rathbone. Lets say he does look ready to be a 4/5. Maybe then you can play with ideas like an OEL-Hughes top pair. 

This is my belief.  Moving Miller, moving Myers....it's really not the difference maker for the near term either way......and there's no guarantee the needle will move in the future neither.  What great teams have are young guys (coming even from rounds 3-6) that come out of nowhere.  Edler wasn't a high pick, nor Tanev.   We could still really benefit from Miller and Myers, but we can't be saddled with 3-4 massive overpayments in a few years.

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

This is my belief.  Moving Miller, moving Myers....it's really not the difference maker for the near term either way......and there's no guarantee the needle will move in the future neither.  What great teams have are young guys (coming even from rounds 3-6) that come out of nowhere.  Edler wasn't a high pick, nor Tanev.   We could still really benefit from Miller and Myers, but we can't be saddled with 3-4 massive overpayments in a few years.

nice thing is Myers is gone in 2 seasons worst case. I still think he's useful, just overpaid. 

[NHL97OneTimer]

1 minute ago, JM_ said:

nice thing is Myers is gone in 2 seasons worst case. I still think he's useful, just overpaid. 

Not grossly overpaid like our previous $6M/yr disaster though.

[grandmaster]

4 minutes ago, JM_ said:

nice thing is Myers is gone in 2 seasons worst case. I still think he's useful, just overpaid. 

Agreed.
 

I’ve always said that at the time we had no choice and no other options when we signed him. The overpayment is only by 1-2M. Unfortunately we’ve had so many buyouts and recapture penalties that these otherwise negligible overpayments sting more. I still say he is better staying here than shipped off for a low return. Right handed defencemen are difficult to get and we are extremely short in this position.

[KirkSave]

1 hour ago, JM_ said:

I still think he's useful

WORTH EVERY PENNY. NEXT ON MY HIT LIST IS MARCHAND! Cmon Myers!!!

 

 

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, JM_ said:

nice thing is Myers is gone in 2 seasons worst case. I still think he's useful, just overpaid. 

Not even overpaid, just ill fitting.

[spook007]

10 hours ago, aGENT said:

The defense is probably about 15-20th in the league. Average, or slightly below. Certainly not awful, but not great either.

 

The real problems are fit and succession. Myers, a perfectly fine 2nd pair D, doesn't fit well with Hughes or OEL and $6m is too much to have on our 3rd pair/prevents us from fixing that.

 

He also expires in 2 seasons. Schenn after this one. We're a couple very short years from having something like Poolman, Juulsen, Woo as our right side. With currently no succession plan to replace those guys.

 

THAT is what needs fixing. THAT is what "sucks" about our defense.

[IBatch]

13 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

Neither are great situations. I think regrouping is the best choice. If this was still JB's team then yeah sure step er down until the wheels falls off. But we have a new management group. Hopefully they have a different plan or I don't see why we even changed JB.

Aren't you a little less apprehensive regarding Miller with JB gone?   And other things .... I am.   Seems like he had a my way or the highway vibe going on and was running a small dictatorship.   Now we have a pro organization again, with a President that has seen and done it all (plus a winner, with two different teams)... JB wasn't all bad, not nearly as bad a some make him out, but the two steps forward, 1.5 steps back stuff was getting old.   Don't mind that Allvin is being patient.   Miller likely gets traded even if we are in a good spot down the stretch, unless we are a top 5-8 team league wide that wide.   Only then could i see them actually reversing their narrative and Miller stays for a playoff run... and maybe we pry Severson from NJ if they are out ... 

 

If we had another solid top four D ... well you just never know.