[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[N4ZZY]

32 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Why wouldn't he, as an American, be more interested in signing with a team closer to home? 

But you can say this with a few of our players. Demko, Garland, Miller, Motte, Hughes. I mean, I'm sure they'd all be intersted in playing closer to home...but this is a business after all. 

 

 

[higgyfan]

This is the worst time for the Canucks to make a trade.  It smacks of panic and an attempt to save jobs.  In no way is this trade going to suddenly save the team from the bowels of the NHL standings.  Miller is the better player in the deal.  This trade does not improve the team at all. 

 

Obviously, Miller will be traded before his contract is completed, but why now?  Why not wait until teams are hungry for a trade?  Teams start getting desperate after Christmas; some wanting to make the playoffs, others wanting to be contenders and Miller is  going to be at the top of the list.   He'll certainly get more than Fiala.

 

Really hope this is only a rumour. 

[the_impersonator13]

34 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Yes, we're screaming for a coaching change. But there are many of us who believe that coaching in itself probably isn't enough. There are many of us who believe Miller's departure is inevitable and that we can't afford to have him walk away from us for nothing.

 

Yes, Miller has done his job, he's a valuable piece and anyone who's watched the team can see that. But the reasons he's valuable to us are the reasons he'd be worth acquiring, and paying a high price for, to someone else. 

 

He's our best trade piece, he'll be 30 by the time his deal expires. His value will never be higher than it is now, given anyone who acquires him gets him at a manageable 5.3M for two seasons. If we fall on our face again next season and move him at the deadline we likely get less than we would this season. 

 

Miller's a passionate player who hates losing, you see it and hear it on the ice. We're not a winner, we won't be this season. If we flounder next season and don't trade him he's most likely walking via UFA. Why would he want to waste the rest of his limited prime on a loser? Why wouldn't he, as an American, be more interested in signing with a team closer to home? 

 

There's also the matter of cap allocation going forward. Boeser will need to be re-sign this offseason or sooner, Horvat and Miller will both be UFA's the same offseason, Pettersson can't be this bad forever and will need a new deal. You'll have to pay guys like Podz, Hoglander, ect. We'll need to replace Myers and Hamonic with new guys as they age, and UFA D don't come cheap. We sure aren't getting a top 4D replacement for what we're currently paying Hamonic. Needless to say, you can only pay so many guys in your top 6 6-7M plus before it starts to negatively impact your team depth. I see Miller as the odd man out, given his age. 

 

Miller may be one of our best forwards, if not our best forward right now, but how long can he be that guy for? I'm not interested in giving him his last big retirement deal to find out, because he'll command both term and a sizable raise. I'd sooner bet on our youth, and on the youth we can acquire, than on a player who's likely in his early 30's at the youngest by the time we're ready to legitimately compete. 

This is great take! I remember when Detroit was offering us a kings ransom for Edler years ago when he was in his prime. I love Miller and he's exactly the type of piss and vinegar this very soft team needs but it's best to sell high on him now and get some pieces more in line with our young core. 

[Coconuts]

4 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

But you can say this with a few of our players. Demko, Garland, Miller, Motte, Hughes. I mean, I'm sure they'd all be intersted in playing closer to home...but this is a business after all. 

 

 

It is, but if Miller hits UFA do you really see him signing in Canada? I'd be surprised 

[N4ZZY]

34 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Yes, we're screaming for a coaching change. But there are many of us who believe that coaching in itself probably isn't enough. There are many of us who believe Miller's departure is inevitable and that we can't afford to have him walk away from us for nothing.

 

Yes, Miller has done his job, he's a valuable piece and anyone who's watched the team can see that. But the reasons he's valuable to us are the reasons he'd be worth acquiring, and paying a high price for, to someone else. 

 

He's our best trade piece, he'll be 30 by the time his deal expires. His value will never be higher than it is now, given anyone who acquires him gets him at a manageable 5.3M for two seasons. If we fall on our face again next season and move him at the deadline we likely get less than we would this season. 

 

Miller's a passionate player who hates losing, you see it and hear it on the ice. We're not a winner, we won't be this season. If we flounder next season and don't trade him he's most likely walking via UFA. Why would he want to waste the rest of his limited prime on a loser? Why wouldn't he, as an American, be more interested in signing with a team closer to home? 

 

There's also the matter of cap allocation going forward. Boeser will need to be re-sign this offseason or sooner, Horvat and Miller will both be UFA's the same offseason, Pettersson can't be this bad forever and will need a new deal. You'll have to pay guys like Podz, Hoglander, ect. We'll need to replace Myers and Hamonic with new guys as they age, and UFA D don't come cheap. We sure aren't getting a top 4D replacement for what we're currently paying Hamonic. Needless to say, you can only pay so many guys in your top 6 6-7M plus before it starts to negatively impact your team depth. I see Miller as the odd man out, given his age. 

 

Miller may be one of our best forwards, if not our best forward right now, but how long can he be that guy for? I'm not interested in giving him his last big retirement deal to find out, because he'll command both term and a sizable raise. I'd sooner bet on our youth, and on the youth we can acquire, than on a player who's likely in his early 30's at the youngest by the time we're ready to legitimately compete. 

I'm with you on most of what you've said

 

I also think Miller's time here as a Canuck is really just a stop gap. He is by far the most tradeable asset that Benning has that is 'part of our core' players moving forward. He's the oldest of the core as well. I agree that his value and worth as a player is probably at its highest this season, as he's producing, he can play center, but is more productive on the wing (even better that he can play both positions). 

 

In terms of his age, you can say the same thing with Bo as well. He's 26, and when the team is ready to compete, let's say it takes 3-5 years to get there, he will be 30/31 years old by that time. So why are we talking about not trading Bo? The team also can't be made up of so many young players, look at how that's turning out when the oldest of our core is 28 years old, the second oldest at 26 is our Cap. Our "best" player supposedly is 23. 

 

We need veteran leadership, something this team doesn't have. Like a good productive veteran, who can score and show the way of what it means to be a professional, because these guys apparently don't have it. 

 

The rumors about Miller going to the Wild for Fiala? Eh, I'm not that big on it. Fiala's going to want to be paid sooner too, what's he worth? How does this fix our problem with the cap moving forward? 

 

 

[Provost]

3 minutes ago, the_impersonator13 said:

This is great take! I remember when Detroit was offering us a kings ransom for Edler years ago when he was in his prime. I love Miller and he's exactly the type of piss and vinegar this very soft team needs but it's best to sell high on him now and get some pieces more in line with our young core. 

A real fear about waiting even a bit longer is that he goes on a cool streak or, god forbid, gets hurt until after the deadline.

 

Tied for top 10 in scoring and with the 174th highest cap hit.  Can play all three forward positions. What contender wouldn’t want to try to add that efficiency and versatility into their lineup.

 

 

[N4ZZY]

5 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

It is, but if Miller hits UFA do you really see him signing in Canada? I'd be surprised 

I think he takes the best deal that an organization gives him. It's his last "harrah" kind of contract, in my books. He's not going to have the greatest season of his life at 34/35 years old. So he's going to want to sign a long term deal for sure (in my opinion). 

 

With that being said, there is bound to be a GM and a team in the US that will offer him the tree and the bananas that come along with it. Someone's going to go ape $&!# with their offer from a US based team. And when that happens, I think Miller will take that deal. The Canucks can't match, no way, and keep Horvat and retain Boeser. Unless someone can help me understand how they can do that? 

 

Say for example, Montréal (just as an example) offers him the max deal, but then another team, say, Los Angeles offers him the same amount. Dollars and term being equal, I think JT looks at the money, and goes there. Players want to win, that's true. And JT wants to win, but is he going to not want to get paid and look after his family? I say, he looks at his girls and his wife, and says, "&^@#. I can deal with losing if I'm being paid 8M per year for the next 7 years" Players want to play first. They want to win. But they also want to get paid. It's likely that Miller after this last contract is done with his career anyways. 

 

We need assets coming back. But I don't trust Benning to do right with any trades to be honest. The man looks to protect himself, same with Weisbrod - what the &^@# does he do after all these years? We hear nothing from him. We don't even know his job description. Getting paid to do nothing, what a dream job. 

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by N4ZZY

[Coconuts]

14 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Trade this trade that ..., maybe just start with the basics.  A new coach and GM .   Then go from there. 

Def agree, I'm not keen on the idea of someone who's potentially got their job on the line making big player trades

 

5 minutes ago, the_impersonator13 said:

This is great take! I remember when Detroit was offering us a kings ransom for Edler years ago when he was in his prime. I love Miller and he's exactly the type of piss and vinegar this very soft team needs but it's best to sell high on him now and get some pieces more in line with our young core. 

Particularly given the state of our prospect pool imo, while I agree with both trades involving our first round pick the last two years it's definitely impacted our prospect depth 

 

You need guys on ELC's to balance out your big ticket guys, and the best place to find them is in the first round

 

1 minute ago, N4ZZY said:

I'm with you on most of what you've said

 

I also think Miller's time here as a Canuck is really just a stop gap. He is by far the most tradeable asset that Benning has that is 'part of our core' players moving forward. He's the oldest of the core as well. I agree that his value and worth as a player is probably at its highest this season, as he's producing, he can play center, but is more productive on the wing (even better that he can play both positions). 

 

In terms of his age, you can say the same thing with Bo as well. He's 26, and when the team is ready to compete, let's say it takes 3-5 years to get there, he will be 30/31 years old by that time. So why are we talking about not trading Bo? The team also can't be made up of so many young players, look at how that's turning out when the oldest of our core is 28 years old, the second oldest at 26 is our Cap. Our "best" player supposedly is 23. 

 

We need veteran leadership, something this team doesn't have. Like a good productive veteran, who can score and show the way of what it means to be a professional, because these guys apparently don't have it. 

 

The rumors about Miller going to the Wild for Fiala? Eh, I'm not that big on it. Fiala's going to want to be paid sooner too, what's he worth? How does this fix our problem with the cap moving forward? 

 

 

The reason I'm not interested in trading Bo is because then you've got to replace him. I view Miller as more of a winger, but Bo is undeniably a center. We don't have anyone in our system capable of stepping up and playing as a top 6 center, and they're a pain to try and acquire. Move Bo and you're probably looking to replace him via trade or UFA, assuming you trade him and Miller, but I've gone over the Miller bit. 

 

Replacing Bo would cost us more via assets or via UFA money than it'd probably cost to retain him. You also need some vets in place as youth steps in, Bo's one of those vets now. If Bo's closer to 30/31 when we're ready to compete that means we've had 4-5 years to tinker with the squad and get it back on track, which I view as unlikely to happen in the 2 years it'll take Miller to get to 30. 

 

I don't see Fiala as a good target, we'd be better off grabbing picks and top prospects imo. 

[Coconuts]

9 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

I think he takes the best deal that an organization gives him. It's his last "harrah" kind of contract, in my books. He's not going to have the greatest season of his life at 34/35 years old. So he's going to want to sign a long term deal for sure (in my opinion). 

 

With that being said, there is bound to be a GM and a team in the US that will offer him the tree and the bananas that come along with it. Someone's going to go ape $&!# with their offer from a US based team. And when that happens, I think Miller will take that deal. The Canucks can't match, no way, and keep Horvat and retain Boeser. Unless someone can help me understand how they can do that? 

 

Say for example, Montréal (just as an example) offers him the max deal, but then another team, say, Los Angeles offers him the same amount. Dollars and term being equal, I think JT looks at the money, and goes there. Players want to win, that's true. And JT wants to win, but is he going to not want to get paid and look after his family? I say, he looks at his girls and his wife, and says, "&^@#. I can deal with losing if I'm being paid 8M per year for the next 7 years" Players want to play first. They want to win. But they also want to get paid. It's likely that Miller after this last contract is done with his career anyways. 

 

We need assets coming back. But I don't trust Benning to do right with any trades to be honest. The man looks to protect himself, same with Weisbrod - what the &^@# does he do after all these years? We hear nothing from him. We don't even know his job description. Getting paid to do nothing, what a dream job. 

 

He'll get paid regardless of where he goes, he won't have to worry about taking care of his family. I could see him taking less to go somewhere truly competitive, which is probably in the US, as opposed to an Ehrhoff all money style deal. 

 

I don't think JB should be the one pulling the trigger on any big trades, but I doubt he's fired before Green. 

[RakuRaku]

5 hours ago, BPA said:

Miller for Greenway + Boldy + 1st 2022?

 

Is Boldy even that good?? I'd trade Boeser & Rathbone for Greenway + Fiala + Kulikov + 1st

[Tre Mac]

27 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

This is the worst time for the Canucks to make a trade.  It smacks of panic and an attempt to save jobs.  In no way is this trade going to suddenly save the team from the bowels of the NHL standings.  Miller is the better player in the deal.  This trade does not improve the team at all. 

 

Obviously, Miller will be traded before his contract is completed, but why now?  Why not wait until teams are hungry for a trade?  Teams start getting desperate after Christmas; some wanting to make the playoffs, others wanting to be contenders and Miller is  going to be at the top of the list.   He'll certainly get more than Fiala.

 

Really hope this is only a rumour. 

100% agreed.

 

Hopefully with the Nucks being the ones that leaked the rumor that'll lead to Minny Brass retracting the offer.

[mll]

10 minutes ago, RakuRaku said:

Is Boldy even that good?? I'd trade Boeser & Rathbone for Greenway + Fiala + Kulikov + 1st

The Wild are looking for a C.  If they wanted a winger they would just try and make it work with Fiala. He's a better fit than Boeser - significantly more speed, likely cheaper and can drive a line.  He is snake bitten and playing with marginal players.  His line for the next game is Gaudreau who at 28 only has 120 NHL games and has never been a lineup regular before joining the Wild this season and Rem Pitlick picked off waivers.  Imagine how Boeser would do playing with them. 

 

They are also not looking to move their 1st as they are still in a rebuild.  They are talking to plenty of other teams on Fiala - not just Vancouver.  

 

The Canucks don't need Kulikov.  He's a 3rd pairing D that needs to be sheltered.

 

Edited November 24, 2021 by mll

[the_impersonator13]

16 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Def agree, I'm not keen on the idea of someone who's potentially got their job on the line making big player trades

 

Particularly given the state of our prospect pool imo, while I agree with both trades involving our first round pick the last two years it's definitely impacted our prospect depth 

 

You need guys on ELC's to balance out your big ticket guys, and the best place to find them is in the first round

Absolutely, teams that win the cup often have guys out playing their entry level contracts. I think it was the year Anaheim won, they had something like 7 players on that roster making a total of $9 million including Getzlaf and Perry. QH, Petey, etc are all on those bigger contracts now. Can't have guys well into their 30's making big bucks and expect to win. 

 

16 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

The reason I'm not interested in trading Bo is because then you've got to replace him. I view Miller as more of a winger, but Bo is undeniably a center. We don't have anyone in our system capable of stepping up and playing as a top 6 center, and they're a pain to try and acquire. Move Bo and you're probably looking to replace him via trade or UFA, assuming you trade him and Miller, but I've gone over the Miller bit. 

 

Replacing Bo would cost us more via assets or via UFA money than it'd probably cost to retain him. You also need some vets in place as youth steps in, Bo's one of those vets now. If Bo's closer to 30/31 when we're ready to compete that means we've had 4-5 years to tinker with the squad and get it back on track, which I view as unlikely to happen in the 2 years it'll take Miller to get to 30. 

 

I don't see Fiala as a good target, we'd be better off grabbing picks and top prospects imo. 

 

[Bobby James]

Yeah like many have said I think Miller for Fiala 1 for 1 is a bad deal for us. 

Miller is much better right now and both will be getting paid more soon. 

 

I like Greenway and maybe a couple picks, so perhaps Miller for Greenway, a 1st and a 2nd? I know we don't get better, but we get a big young forward and a couple picks. Greenway isn't having a very productive season though, so even that trade might not be enough.  

 

Or also what about Dumba? I haven't been following him closely, but would there be interest in him? We need a top 4 D and I believe he is also a right shot. 

[nergish]

Miller 

Myers

 

for 

 

Boldy

Greenway

Dumba

[Chris12345]

52 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

I'm with you on most of what you've said

 

I also think Miller's time here as a Canuck is really just a stop gap. He is by far the most tradeable asset that Benning has that is 'part of our core' players moving forward. He's the oldest of the core as well. I agree that his value and worth as a player is probably at its highest this season, as he's producing, he can play center, but is more productive on the wing (even better that he can play both positions). 

 

In terms of his age, you can say the same thing with Bo as well. He's 26, and when the team is ready to compete, let's say it takes 3-5 years to get there, he will be 30/31 years old by that time. So why are we talking about not trading Bo? The team also can't be made up of so many young players, look at how that's turning out when the oldest of our core is 28 years old, the second oldest at 26 is our Cap. Our "best" player supposedly is 23. 

 

We need veteran leadership, something this team doesn't have. Like a good productive veteran, who can score and show the way of what it means to be a professional, because these guys apparently don't have it. 

 

The rumors about Miller going to the Wild for Fiala? Eh, I'm not that big on it. Fiala's going to want to be paid sooner too, what's he worth? How does this fix our problem with the cap moving forward? 

 

 

I said three years ago Bo would miss his prime here and got absolutely blasted hahah

[48MPHSlapShot]

Pass. We get worse in the short term and don't gain anything significant long-term.

 

I'd rather see what a competent coach could do with this group in the short term before any major trades are made. I'd also like a competent GM at the helm if and when any major trades are made. The way this roster is constructed, I don't see it winning a cup going forward, but we need a competent coach in place to get a better indication of what we have on the ice right now. 

[mll]

21 minutes ago, nergish said:

Miller 

Myers

 

for 

 

Boldy

Greenway

Dumba

The Wild are looking to trade Fiala and possibly Greenway.  Not Dumba.  Not Boldy.  They are talking to plenty of other teams about Fiala.  Miller would be the player that interests them from Vancouver.  Fiala as a winger is not an ideal fit - they need a top-6 C.  

 

Edited November 24, 2021 by mll

[Alflives]

13 minutes ago, nergish said:

Miller 

Myers

 

for 

 

Boldy

Greenway

Dumba

Dumbo is way too small.  

[BPA]

MIN seems like a bad trading partner.  They are rebuilding and will have $15M in dead cap space for a few years.  Canucks can't shed bad contracts and can't get draft picks and prospects.