[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[Coconuts]

5 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

I'm in ... in a heartbeat. I think this guy has tremendous upside. A great first move at building up the right side of D. We are so missing a slicker player who can play with elite forwards there.

 

Add a Schnieder type prospect and support with bigger stay at home D's and that's a defence that can excel

 

Hughes Schnieder

OEL Manson

K.Miller Lundqvist

 

Oops I just stole all of the Rags D youth.

Don't apologize, manifest!

[AC Readership]

5 hours ago, mll said:

Friedman in his 32 Thoughts on Vancouver:

 

13. One executive was talking about Vancouver and Winnipeg. He said he didn’t envy those teams making hockey decisions with the financial losses they’ve suffered from lack of crowds. They’ve worked their way into playoff contention, although the math isn’t on their side. In a lot of years, you might punt, but with everything that’s gone on the last two years, a playoff race and a postseason round is incredibly enticing. The Jets’ biggest decisions will likely come this summer, with Andrew Copp and Paul Stastny pressing in the moment. Copp’s got a lot of interest, in particular. Colorado for sure. Boston loves versatile forwards, and he is one.

 

14. The Canucks don’t have to rush (other than Motte) and seem prepared to wait until the summer unless either someone forces them to reconsider or a player they covet drops on their lap. One example would be Pittsburgh defenceman John Marino, but, as mentioned last weekend, it’s a difficult match. For one thing, the Penguins like their vibe and aren’t inclined to tinker too much with it. For another, with several tricky negotiations to come, they don’t want more. Los Angeles and Boston have checked in for some scoring, just not sure if it happens right now. Don’t see J.T. Miller going anywhere at this time; see that as a postseason conversation, including what it would take to re-sign him.

 

Choosing $ over the their future is how the Canucks got into their current situation.

[stawns]

7 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Why is that disrespectful? I don't think his skillset is what this roster is in need of. I didn't say he was a bad player, just not what we need.

Fair point, disrespect probably wasn't the right word

[JM_]

12 hours ago, stawns said:

Did I miss something?

nothing official, just seems to be the general consensus Miller won't be moved this TDL

[JM_]

12 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Pass. Lundvist isn't what we need. 

puck moving RHD prospect.... why doesn't that fit? 

[aGENT]

11 hours ago, RWJC said:

I’m not advocating either way about keeping or trading Miller in this post, but the question I have is with this record / trajectory, the players we have under contract right now, why is there much less talk about potentially readjusting the timeline for the retool/rebuild until the TDL next year and giving this team, with some tweaks and upgrades, a chance to prove they can actually push deep in the playoffs?

 

PA/JR/FA (to a degree) have stated where this franchise needs to head, but that was attached to a listless, highly underperforming Travis Green “coached” team. That tune hasn’t changed all that much under Bruce, and yes eventually  we have to get younger and cheaper, but given the track record now, and some decent assets to trade off (eg. Boeser or Garland), with both OEL and Myers at their current age/production vs contract (more so OEL), does anybody think we might see one more year of this club held together, with additions, before it’s dissected? 

 

I realize right now they aren’t built to withstand the attrition. Considering most of our moves should happen off-season,

would anyone be surprised or disappointed if mgmt backtracked and charted a different course? Because  if we are to re-sign Miller, I don’t think there is a significant rebuild/retool until after this team, with this mgmt’s tweaks, is truly exhausted as being just not good enough.

 

Apologies, I don’t mean to rehash a tired discussion on build or break down. 

I just wonder when you look at the record and some of the high level teams we’ve been able to compete with, and now with that Hertl deal as a reference point… if the rumour is we really are interested in signing Miller to term, in my eyes, it means we are still focused on the playoffs for the next 2-3 years minimum. 
 

otherwise, it is pointless to even offer him a contract, no?

 

we can’t compete with the COL’s or FLA’s of the league, and likely won’t be able to for a couple seasons, so almost seems like a pipe dream right now to think we are going to re-up Miller long term. 

You can't carry the Miller situation in to next season and certainly not next TDL. The closer to the TDL, the more leverage buyers have. Therefore, likely the lower the return. You also risk him having a down season, getting injured etc. Then there's pulling the rug out from a team (hopefully) battling for a playoff spot and then risking him walking for nothing if you don't move him, because of it. The exact reasoning folks don't want to move him now.

 

The main reason this even came up this season was because originally, we weren't fighting for a playoff spot. Like remotely. And he was having a very good season, with his value never higher due to his play, and having two, bargain cap, playoff runs under contract.

 

Figure out this summer if he stays or goes (and I honestly don't see a contract that works for both team and player given his contract comparables, age and our window/age of the core). So goes it is. Pull the Band-Aid off. Probably at the draft.

[IBatch]

34 minutes ago, JM_ said:

puck moving RHD prospect.... why doesn't that fit? 

Lundqvist isn't ranked very high in any mid-season reports i've seen.   To put it into perspective - Both Woo and Rathbone made the top 100 to start the year - Woo has left it, Rathbone moved up 25 or so spots into the low 60's.   I get we need a young RHD that can hopefully be groomed into the top four, and also that they are  1/3 less of them overall (so they are tough to find).   One thing that isn't as hard to find, are guys like Benn and Schenn etc.    To me as long as we have four or five legit top four guys, the rest should fall into place.   

[JM_]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Lundqvist isn't ranked very high in any mid-season reports i've seen.   To put it into perspective - Both Woo and Rathbone made the top 100 to start the year - Woo has left it, Rathbone moved up 25 or so spots into the low 60's.   I get we need a young RHD that can hopefully be groomed into the top four, and also that they are  1/3 less of them overall (so they are tough to find).   One thing that isn't as hard to find, are guys like Benn and Schenn etc.    To me as long as we have four or five legit top four guys, the rest should fall into place.   

I wonder how much of that is due to the weird covid seasons tho? it just seemed like a decent deal value-wise to try to use Garland to get him, for the player but also fo the cap clearing.

[JM_]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

You can't carry the Miller situation in to next season and certainly not next TDL. The closer to the TDL, the more leverage buyers have. Therefore, likely the lower the return. You also risk him having a down season, getting injured etc. Then there's pulling the rug out from a team (hopefully) battling for a playoff spot and then risking him walking for nothing if you don't move him, because of it. The exact reasoning folks don't want to move him now.

 

The main reason this even came up this season was because originally, we weren't fighting for a playoff spot. Like remotely. And he was having a very good season, with his value never higher due to his play, and having two, bargain cap, playoff runs under contract.

 

Figure out this summer if he stays or goes (and I honestly don't see a contract that works for both team and player given his contract comparables, age and our window/age of the core). So goes it is. Pull the Band-Aid off. Probably at the draft.

this is interesting. I wonder if this puts pressure on NYR to make a big move since it looks like a lock that Giroux is heading to Florida.

 

 

Edited March 17, 2022 by JM_

[tas]

3 hours ago, AC Readership said:

 

Choosing $ over the their future is how the Canucks got into their current situation.

choosing the future is how the oilers and sabres got into their current situations. 

[N4ZZY]

28 minutes ago, mll said:

Friedman in his 32 Thoughts on Vancouver:

 

13. One executive was talking about Vancouver and Winnipeg. He said he didn’t envy those teams making hockey decisions with the financial losses they’ve suffered from lack of crowds. They’ve worked their way into playoff contention, although the math isn’t on their side. In a lot of years, you might punt, but with everything that’s gone on the last two years, a playoff race and a postseason round is incredibly enticing. The Jets’ biggest decisions will likely come this summer, with Andrew Copp and Paul Stastny pressing in the moment. Copp’s got a lot of interest, in particular. Colorado for sure. Boston loves versatile forwards, and he is one.

 

14. The Canucks don’t have to rush (other than Motte) and seem prepared to wait until the summer unless either someone forces them to reconsider or a player they covet drops on their lap. One example would be Pittsburgh defenceman John Marino, but, as mentioned last weekend, it’s a difficult match. For one thing, the Penguins like their vibe and aren’t inclined to tinker too much with it. For another, with several tricky negotiations to come, they don’t want more. Los Angeles and Boston have checked in for some scoring, just not sure if it happens right now. Don’t see J.T. Miller going anywhere at this time; see that as a postseason conversation, including what it would take to re-sign him.

I’d tend to agree. I don’t think that anyone moves at this trade deadline for the Canucks. Especially since they’re so close (relatively speaking), but Dallas still got 3 games in hand, so unless they lose those three in hand, and the Canucks don’t make ground, don’t think it’s happening. 

 

I can see a very busy off-season for management, but I think the team will be relatively quiet this trade deadline. 

 

So my prediction. Lots of chatter, but nothing gets done, except for maybe Motte. 

 

[Strawbone]

I can't say I envy the Canucks management team right now. Re-signing Miller long-term for big $$ could work out amazingly well if he maintains his current crazy pace for a few more years, or he could quickly revert to being a 70 point or less, good but not amazing, player. And trading him could result in the haul of a lifetime, with all the returns working out and becoming a huge part of a cup run. Or the return could be some decent players that never make the kind of impact that Miller has had.

 

There's no way he takes less than 8x$9m now, right? Man those are such big numbers...

[48MPHSlapShot]

5 hours ago, JM_ said:

puck moving RHD prospect.... why doesn't that fit? 

To put it bluntly, he's small. If we're assuming both he and and Rathbone make the jump within the next two years, we would have three sub-six foot defensemen on our blueline, and small bluelines don't win cups. 

Edited March 17, 2022 by 48MPHSlapShot

[JM_]

Just now, 48MPHSlapShot said:

To put it bluntly, he's small. If we're assuming both and and Rathbone make the jump within the next two years, we would have three sub-six foot defensemen on our blueline, and small bluelines don't win cups. 

I was thinking we'd move the 'bone for some F help, maybe Rathbone + for Zacha?

[stawns]

2 hours ago, Strawbone said:

I can't say I envy the Canucks management team right now. Re-signing Miller long-term for big $$ could work out amazingly well if he maintains his current crazy pace for a few more years, or he could quickly revert to being a 70 point or less, good but not amazing, player. And trading him could result in the haul of a lifetime, with all the returns working out and becoming a huge part of a cup run. Or the return could be some decent players that never make the kind of impact that Miller has had.

 

There's no way he takes less than 8x$9m now, right? Man those are such big numbers...

even if he stays productive, at that cap hit, with Petey, Hughes and Demko, they wouldn't really be able to get good depth players to support those guys and they'd, basically, become the Jets.......a team with contender potential, now a bubble playoff team

[Alflives]

Just now, JM_ said:

I was thinking we'd move the 'bone for some F help, maybe Rathbone + for Zacha?

Zacha might not even get qualified by Jersey.  I'd much rather keep Bone.  

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

To put it bluntly, he's small. If we're assuming both he and and Rathbone make the jump within the next two years, we would have three sub-six foot defensemen on our blueline, and small bluelines don't win cups. 

I wouldn't say 190 is small.  

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Zacha might not even get qualified by Jersey.  I'd much rather keep Bone.  

what about Crouse from AZ then? big kid, we need more of that upfront. 

[48MPHSlapShot]

6 minutes ago, JM_ said:

I was thinking we'd move the 'bone for some F help, maybe Rathbone + for Zacha?

Interesting idea. But as far as trading for a defenseman goes, I really think we should be putting our focus on trying the find a long term partner for Hughes. Finding a young, top 4 RD that can play in his own end is absolutely imperative for this franchise going forward. I really don't think Lundqvist is that guy.

Edited March 17, 2022 by 48MPHSlapShot

[Provost]

8 minutes ago, JM_ said:

I was thinking we'd move the 'bone for some F help, maybe Rathbone + for Zacha?

It is an interesting idea, assuming we had the chance to negotiate an extension under his QO first.

 

Lots of reports that the Canucks are interested in Zacha, who knows what their impression of Rathbone is.  One would think that Jersey woiuld have to add some thin just due to the contract status.

 

I think Rathbone gets moved out at some point as he doesn’t seem to be a fit for our needs to me.  All the things he does well, Hughes does better…. And it is going to be Hughes on the ice for all those minutes so it is setting up Rathbone to not be effective.