[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[flat land fish]

39 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

Miller too.  Petey at times.  I recall a lot of this team isn't good enough stuff.

 

Here's something to think about in this dream some have that young studs are the way to go and over 30 is over the hill.

 

Top 8 point getters in the NHL right now? - average age is 29.5'ish.  4 of the top 8 are over 30.

 

Top 2 goal scorers?  33 and soon to be 31.  

 

Over 30 does NOT mean all washed up and not worth pursuing.  At all.  Especially in this day and age, with the training, fitness, recovery programs in place.

 

I'd say the young "studs" are just as much a gamble in that you don't really know how they'll fare over time and if they'll produce at a top level over a sustained period (either).

 

It's all a roll of the dice.  But chemistry matters a whole lot and this team is building some.  Start over and, well, who knows.

 

Agreed.  Having a deep roster that plays well together is where it’s at.  Watching the oilers over the last while is a great reminder for all teams and fans that 1 or 2 guys can’t do everything it’s a collection of solid players who work well together that rise to the top.

[BPA]

Miller (50%) + Motte + Schenn

for

Schneider + Chytil + Kakko + 2nd 2022

 

Meh…bored.

 

 

[stawns]

9 minutes ago, flat land fish said:

Agreed.  Having a deep roster that plays well together is where it’s at.  Watching the oilers over the last while is a great reminder for all teams and fans that 1 or 2 guys can’t do everything it’s a collection of solid players who work well together that rise to the top.

Exactly right and making significant moves will put the Canucks into that position going forward.

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, -DLC- said:

Miller too.  Petey at times.  I recall a lot of this team isn't good enough stuff.

 

Here's something to think about in this dream some have that young studs are the way to go and over 30 is over the hill.

 

Top 8 point getters in the NHL right now? - average age is 29.5'ish.  4 of the top 8 are over 30.

 

Top 2 goal scorers?  33 and soon to be 31.  

 

Over 30 does NOT mean all washed up and not worth pursuing.  At all.  Especially in this day and age, with the training, fitness, recovery programs in place.

 

I'd say the young "studs" are just as much a gamble in that you don't really know how they'll fare over time and if they'll produce at a top level over a sustained period (either).

 

It's all a roll of the dice.  But chemistry matters a whole lot and this team is building some.  Start over and, well, who knows.

 

This is not a "30 is over the hill" or "washed up" thing though. It's not anti-Miller either. As I said a few pages ago, I'm fine with 30 year olds. Particularly on short term deals to minimize risk of guys 34+. If Rutherford could convince Pavelski to sign here next year on a $4x1 deal, I'd applaud it.

 

Or say a longer term, 6 year deal signed for a player that's 27 and expiring at 33 +/- (for the right player). Especially if it works with our contention window.

 

I'm however not fine, committing $8m+ for 6-8 years of guys who will already be in their 30's and will be declining smack dab in the middle of our window, saddling what should be a cup competing team, with an anchor contract.

 

Horvat will be in his early 30's in that window...No problem with that either.

 

Why do you want approaching-30 Petey and Hughes saddled with a declining, mid 30's $8m+ contract right when they should be winning cups? I think THEY can be competitive in to their early 30's...but not if we have a team full of bad contracts like the one you guys want to sign.

 

This is all about making us the best, most deep, most competitive team we can be 2-7 years from now in the core's prime. Big $$$$ retirement deals, to already 30 year old players, ahead of that timeline, does not accomplish that. .

Edited January 23, 2022 by aGENT

[Coconuts]

3 hours ago, SilentSam said:

So. Miller IS an outlier,  walks like a duck , talks like a duck, must be .

 

This is about acquiring 2 key pieces to this team,.  To pursue  Stanley cup in the next 3 seasons.

Why are we so in love with draft picks?

thought we just did a rebuild?

 

Boeser could be a bomb next year, lucky to get it close to back on track this year.

 

are we expecting someone else to just show up with the same tenacity JT has?

.. and the argument about wanting or not wanting to be here,.  That applies for any one we try to obtain .

 

a bird in the hand,  Miller..  is 3 in the bush,.

and those are all fictional tweety birds.

 

Miller is not LE , Sutter,  or anyone else like that.  
 

 

The problem with making statements like these is the fact you don't actually know, you're guessing. Or assuming. Maybe he isn't, maybe he is, but don't pretend you know. 

 

Because Loui wasn't a disaster until he was either. We weren't roasted when that signing was made, hindsight is 20/20.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Coconuts

[stawns]

9 minutes ago, aGENT said:

This is not a "30 is over the hill" or "washed up" thing though. It's not anti-Miller either. As I said a few pages ago, I'm fine with 30 year olds. Particularly on short term deals to minimize risk of guys 34+. If Rutherford could convince Pavelski to sign here next year on a $4x1 deal, I'd applaud it.

 

Or say a longer term, 6 year deal signed for a player that's 27 and expiring at 33 +/- (for the right player). Especially if it works with our contention window.

 

I'm however not fine, committing $8m+ for 6-8 years of guys who will already be in their 30's and will be declining smack dab in the middle of our window, saddling what should be a cup competing team, with an anchor contract.

 

Horvat will be in his early 30's in that window...No problem with that either.

 

Why do you want approaching-30 Petey and Hughes saddled with a declining, mid 30's $8m+ contract right when they should be winning cups? I think THEY can be competitive in to their early 30's...but not if we have a team full of bad contracts like the one you guys want to sign.

 

This is all about making us the best, most deep, most competitive team we can be 2-7 years from now in the core's prime. Big $$$$ retirement deals, to already 30 year old players, ahead of that timeline, does not accomplish that. .

Apparently it's about "you want to see player x traded, therefore you hate player x"

[N4ZZY]

5 hours ago, SilentSam said:

Why would you give up something that your team needs and has been desperate to get.

Miller will still give you a return in 3 years.

Miller outstands Boeser or Horvat.

 

arguments could be made that Miller and Garland make those two expendable,. 
but Bo’s face off wins are critically positive.

Boeser moves,.  7m clears and a good D man will become available through that trade or agency.

Hamonic won’t be here next season I’m sure either..  there’s the hole.  And more money for the position. .  

Why would you give up something that your team needs and has been desperate to get? 

 

You mean like a top end RHD that this franchise has never had in it's entire existence?

 

Yes, Miller is a player we need. But he also gets us the largest return that no other roster player could get for us. In that return, Miller could net us a RHD, which we sorely need on our backend. 

 

Yes, Miller could give us a return in 3 years, but we'd still be without a top end RHD. 

 

Forwards are easier to replace than defenseman, no? So if Miller can net us a 20 year old RHD, then why would you pass that up? We'd be set for the next decade plus. 

 

Isn't Hamonic signed for the next two years? He signed a three year deal didn't he? 

 

[khay]

6 hours ago, -DLC- said:

Miller too.  Petey at times.  I recall a lot of this team isn't good enough stuff.

 

Here's something to think about in this dream some have that young studs are the way to go and over 30 is over the hill.

 

Top 8 point getters in the NHL right now? - average age is 29.5'ish.  4 of the top 8 are over 30.

 

Top 2 goal scorers?  33 and soon to be 31.  

 

Over 30 does NOT mean all washed up and not worth pursuing.  At all.  Especially in this day and age, with the training, fitness, recovery programs in place.

 

I'd say the young "studs" are just as much a gamble in that you don't really know how they'll fare over time and if they'll produce at a top level over a sustained period (either).

 

It's all a roll of the dice.  But chemistry matters a whole lot and this team is building some.  Start over and, well, who knows.

 

OV and Kreider? But OV is 36. 

 

If OV were 33, he would surely hit 1,000 goals. That's a number that no human being should be able to hit. 

 

I agree with the post though. Age isn't the reason why one should trade Miller. It's more about the direction of the franchise and whether you can win the cup with Miller as your best player getting paid 9+ mil.

 

If the answer is no, then you get the maximum return for his value and retool around younger core.

 

Even if the answer is yes, what if he wants 10 mil for 8 years? That could cripple any chance of winning a cup if somehow we are wrong and Miller isn't good enough to lead us to the cup or if he experiences age related decline after 3-4 years. 

 

Based on his comparable players, I think Miller's ask will begin at 9.5 mil on a long term deal (e.g., Mark Stone, who is also PPG and plays in all situations). 

 

There is a tough decision to be made this TDL.

 

[86Viking]

JT Miller is a very good player, and we should NOT trade him this season.

 

But, for all you HOMER JT Miller fans....IF JT does not sign an extension during the off season the writing is on the wall for him wanting to leave and you all have to get on board with that. Then, it is up to the GM to get the best return for JT as possible, either a trade in the off season or at the TDL. We can NOT let JT walk for FREE so we can maybe make the playoffs and win a round...poor asset management just like the Benning regime!

[SilentSam]

11 hours ago, Coconuts said:

The problem with making statements like these is the fact you don't actually know, you're guessing. Or assuming. Maybe he isn't, maybe he is, but don't pretend you know. 

 

Because Loui wasn't a disaster until he was either. We weren't roasted when that signing was made, hindsight is 20/20.

Others here are saying he’s washed up next year because he’s approaching 30 !?!

 

Why would anyone want to trade arguably besides Demko ,.  The best player on their team, one that has brought more grit to this club that we haven’t seen for almost 10 years.. and gives us a ppg?

 

For the fantasy of draft picks !  Lol that’s why.

 

Trade the lesser assets.. Bo and Brock included.     
 

The veteran leadership Miller brought to this club was never here before with any of our “leadership groups” after the Sedins.

not one play shines that bright.

 

Finally We have an offensive player to build a winning club around,  a leader and mentor that neither Horvat or Boeser seem to be,

.. and posters here want to move him for fantasy.    
 Might as well change the team  logo to a Dog chasing its tail.

 

 

[SilentSam]

11 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

Why would you give up something that your team needs and has been desperate to get? 

 

You mean like a top end RHD that this franchise has never had in it's entire existence?

 

Yes, Miller is a player we need. But he also gets us the largest return that no other roster player could get for us. In that return, Miller could net us a RHD, which we sorely need on our backend. 

 

Yes, Miller could give us a return in 3 years, but we'd still be without a top end RHD. 

 

Forwards are easier to replace than defenseman, no? So if Miller can net us a 20 year old RHD, then why would you pass that up? We'd be set for the next decade plus. 

 

Isn't Hamonic signed for the next two years? He signed a three year deal didn't he? 

 

Boeser and Miller money keeps Miller.

Money left over and Hamonic traded or going LTI will keep money for a good RHD, one that may come by trading Boeser.

 

Boeser 5.8 and Hamonic 3.0 = 8.8

 

Miller = 5.25

 

add 2.75 from Bb Th to Miller for 8m offer

 

6.1m remaining to search or sign an RHD in return of Trade.

other D men will come off roster next season.

the money will be there for a 7-8m RHD.

 

Perhaps Boeser can help move Klingberg out of Dallas.

 

 

Im not proposing this.  
  But I see moving Boeser or Horvat before Miller..  if it wasn’t for him these passed couple of seasons I would’ve watched less Hockey .

 

Miller keeps an intensity that neither Boeser or Horvat can or know how to tap into.

some say “emotional” ?!

Its a competitive edge that creates winners around you.

 

im tired of stick man choir boy hockey in this town..     

posters here would rather sacrifice the one heart that beats wildly to win every night in Miller.

 

that’s going back to mediocrity,  and being on the losing side of 1 goal games and crappy defensive hockey.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by SilentSam
7-8m

[73 Percent]

Just now, SilentSam said:

Boeser and Miller money keeps Miller.

Money left over and Hamonic traded or going LTI will keep money for a good RHD, one that may come by trading Boeser.

 

Boeser 5.8 and Hamonic 3.0 = 8.8

 

Miller = 5.25

 

add 2.75 from Bb Th to Miller for 8m offer

 

6.1m remaining to search or sign an RHD in return of Trade.

other D men will come off roster next season.

the money will be there for a 7-8 RHD.

 

Perhaps Boeser can help move Klingberg out of Dallas.

 

 

Im not proposing this.  
  But I see moving Boeser or Horvat before Miller..  if it wasn’t for him these passed couple of seasons I would’ve watched less Hockey .

 

Miller keeps an intensity that neither Boeser or Horvat can or know how to tap into.

some say “emotional” ?!

Its a competitive edge that creates winners around you.

 

im tired of stick man choir boy hockey in this town..     

posters here would rather sacrifice the one heart that beats wildly to win every night in Miller.

 

that’s going back to mediocrity,  and being on the losing side of 1 goal games and crappy defensive hockey.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I trade boes before the other 2 no doubt.

[aGENT]

15 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

Others here are saying he’s washed up next year because he’s approaching 30 !?!

Love to see these quotes of these "others" saying he's "washed up at 30." I'll wait here for you to find them.

 

You seem to have a reading comprehension issue.

 

The concern is having a mid-30's, declining, $8m+ anchor contract, right in the meat of the young core's prime. Not Miller next year or the year after at 30/31. Miller 4+years from now, on a 6-8 year, big $$$, retirement deal.

 

15 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

For the fantasy of draft picks !  Lol that’s why.

 

Nope, not about draft picks either. Key pieces I've seen suggested are all current players and near ready, high end prospects. But if you'd actually comprehend people's posts rather than arguing against straw man narratives, you wouldn't have much of an argument I suppose. 

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

Perhaps Boeser can help move Klingberg out of Dallas.

Oh sweet Gordie, now you want to sign not only Miller to an ill advised retirement deal that would cripple us in our young core's contention window, but you also want to give up some of our actual young core to acquire another player to give an ill advised retirement deal to cripple us further!

 

Wow... Lol

[SilentSam]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

Love to see these quotes of these "others" saying he's "washed up at 30." I'll wait here for you to find them.

 

You seem to have a reading comprehension issue.

 

The concern is having a mid-30's, declining, $8m+ anchor contract, right in the meat of the young core's prime. Not Miller next year or the year after at 30/31. Miller 4+years from now, on a 6-8 year, big $$$, retirement deal.

 

 

Nope, not about draft picks either. Key pieces I've seen suggested are all current players and near ready, high end prospects. But if you'd actually comprehend people's posts rather than arguing against straw man narratives, you wouldn't have much of an argument I suppose. 

“The concern is having a mid-30's, declining, $8m+ anchor contract, right in the meat of the young core's prime”

 

that’s basically saying he is washed up to us.

 

Well,.  We can both “suppose” aGent..

 

 

[SilentSam]

Just now, aGENT said:

Oh sweet Gordie, now you want to sign not only Miller to an ill advised retirement deal that would cripple us in our young core's contention window, but you also want to give up some of our actual young core to acquire another player to give an ill advised retirement deal to cripple us further!

 

Wow... Lol

“young core's contention window,”

 

More fantasy thoughts like the declining one,.

 

 

[aGENT]

Just now, SilentSam said:

“The concern is having a mid-30's, declining, $8m+ anchor contract, right in the meat of the young core's prime”

 

that’s basically saying he is washed up to us.

 

Well,.  We can both “suppose” aGent..

 

 

Mid 30's =\= "30". There's a vast difference between 30 and 31 year old Miller and 34+ Miller.

 

And no, it's not, it's saying he's a declining asset, that would no longer be living up to his $8m+ cap. I'm sure he could still play hockey (should be stay healthy and choose to). But not likely at an $8m+ level.

 

"Suppose" =\= straw man either, Sam...

[Warhippy]

Miller:

 

Our best asset for trades and maxed return.

 

Expiring next year on a very friendly contract

 

Almost 29

 

Will command $8+ million in his next contract without question.

 

My question, and it's important.  A team like ours with a long, decades long history of watching assets if this nature walk away for nothing, can it afford to run that same risk with Miller in this instance?

 

With where this team is and where it still needs to travel to be where it's a contender, can we run the risk of not trading him?

 

Simple question.

 

My option would be to offer him a high dollar value short term contract, 1-2 years extension if we intend to keep him and just trade him at some point regardless.

 

If he WANTS to be here, he'll have to take a shorter term deal or one with a longer term lower cap.

 

This is his retirement deal coming up.  Can we afford it?  Can we risk losing him for nothing?

 

If both those answers are no....

Edited January 23, 2022 by Warhippy

[JM_]

1 minute ago, SilentSam said:

“young core's contention window,”

 

More fantasy thoughts like the declining one,.

 

 

the biggest issue I see Sam is that we can't extend Miller now. Its a pure unknown. Even if he's leaning to stay, who knows what he wants July 1? maybe he changes his mind and wants to be a UFA and write his own ticket. We just don't know.

 

So at best, we have him for 1 more year. Which is nice. But is that the right thing for building a contending team going forward?

 

A lot of teams have moved good players and still improved overall. 

[SilentSam]

4 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Oh sweet Gordie, now you want to sign not only Miller to an ill advised retirement deal that would cripple us in our young core's contention window, but you also want to give up some of our actual young core to acquire another player to give an ill advised retirement deal to cripple us further!

 

Wow... Lol

And I’ve said if it happens that a term deal, where he is totally tradeable after 3 seasons.

if we aren’t in cup contention by then, he will not want to be here after 3 years..  it’s his opt out with money to go to a contender, and ours .