[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[Nucker 67]

Wasn't it recently reported that the core will be Pettersson, Hughes, Demko and Horvat?  Miller not included, or Boeser.

 

Major changes coming? Several teams could use Miller for next year's playoff run. I could see him in a Bruins, Rangers, Kings or Flyers jersey. 

 

PHI's #5 would be nice.

 

 

[AC Readership]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

And that's the trouble with trying to get better while moving forward when a team should clearly be rebuilding/retooling.  We will almost certainly take a step back by trading Miller. He's a 99 point number one center, on a great contract. 

Sakic had a pretty good team and decided it wasn't good enough.  He traded away ROR and Duchene to retool around Mackinnon.  The Avs took a couple steps back to leap ahead (later) to where they are now.  Is Colorado a great team without those trades and a step back? 

Maybe we need to do similar and trade Miller and Bo?   

 

1 hour ago, NucknAsia said:

Miller, Bo, Boeser, and Meyers. Stock the hell up on 20-21 year olds who can play and have upside plus picks.

Get a good pick(s) this year, who knows maybe get lucky and land Bedard, plus other players from the picks, by the time Petey, Quinn, and Podz are Bo's age, you're where Colorado is with MacKinnon etc...27 years old....and likely a potential cup contender and your BEST players are only 26/27....

 

Exactly the right move but we like to be a middling team. 

Need to sell high on the high value non core players  to get some more 1sts for the next 3 drafts/lower picks/prospects. Clear cap out and then weaponize it for picks & prospects.

 

Have a fire sale at the 23 deadline to bottom out and tank for the Bedard sweepstakes. If that doesn't workout there are some really good players in next year's draft.

 

I honestly don't think JR takes the job of HO without full control for management.

 

Bottom line the team needs more high talent game changers and then can start filling in the roster with support & depth.

[tas]

55 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Wasn't it recently reported that the core will be Pettersson, Hughes, Demko and Horvat?

 not by anyone who has a clue. 

[Nucker 67]

If Petey and Bo are part of the core moving forward, then Miller could be dealt. Sounds like the Rangers were offering Chytil, Lundkvist and a 1st for Miller at the TDL. They might circle back. Problem is, NYR don't have a 1st this year, as they traded that to WPG for Copp.

 

But they have a 2nd (#62)

 

to NYR:  Miller

to VAN:  Chytil, Kravtsov, Lundkvist, 2nd

 

 

[Fanuck]

8 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

to NYR:  Miller

to VAN:  Chytil, Kravtsov, Lundkvist, 2nd

Not sure I'd go for that package - at least not before exhausting any other options.  It looks like a bit of a 'quantity over quality' scenario.

I'm thinking a team like LA could better that package if we were looking at something like:

to LA:    Miller/Rathbone

to Van:  Clarke/Turcotte

[Herberts Vasiljevs]

15 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

If Petey and Bo are part of the core moving forward, then Miller could be dealt. Sounds like the Rangers were offering Chytil, Lundkvist and a 1st for Miller at the TDL. They might circle back. Problem is, NYR don't have a 1st this year, as they traded that to WPG for Copp.

 

But they have a 2nd (#62)

 

to NYR:  Miller

to VAN:  Chytil, Kravtsov, Lundkvist, 2nd

 

 

I could realistically see this happening. It's relatively fair too. Do I wish, for example, that Lundkvist was a little bigger? Sure. But the value in this trade is definitely there. 

[NucknAsia]

36 minutes ago, AC Readership said:

 

Need to sell high on the high value non core players  to get some more 1sts for the next 3 drafts/lower picks/prospects. Clear cap out and then weaponize it for picks & prospects.

 

Have a fire sale at the 23 deadline to bottom out and tank for the Bedard sweepstakes. If that doesn't workout there are some really good players in next year's draft.

 

I honestly don't think JR takes the job of HO without full control for management.

 

Bottom line the team needs more high talent game changers and then can start filling in the roster with support & depth.

I don't think you get in the Bedard sweepstakes without accepting moving those players in this offseason. Else we middle again, barely make or barely miss the playoffs.

It's not about tanking, its about a strategic and deliberate quick rebuild....you accept a year or 2 of not making the playoffs, but know that in 2-3 years you will be making it again and will never look back.

 

I think JR has basically said this by saying his core is Petey, Quinn and Demko. I will be curious to see if they (and ownership) have the courage to do what's needed. Else all they will be doing is kicking the can down the road for another 10 years.

[Fanuck]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Or, and more likely, if Miller wants to go for max dollars (as a UFA) he will sign with a bottom feeder to get the biggest dollars, much like Hamilton did.

Miller isn't a D (so AP) so he's not going to have the top teams really pursuing him as more than a rental.  It's either sign for less with a top team or go for the big dollar from a crap team.  

To me your scenario isn't that likely Alf.  At this stage in his career, with his competitiveness level, I don't see him taking the money and wasting the remaining years of his career on a bottom feeding team being a non-relevant player.  Way more likely in my view is that he gets traded to a team that's close already and needs him to complete their roster and who intend to re-sign him.  A team that has an abundance of picks in the minors who will not likely contribute to the window that is opening for them now, and/or who are buried under guys that aren't going anywhere anytime soon.  That's why the more I think about it the more I see LA as being a pretty good fit.  They're on the rise, if Doughty wasn't injured it's arguable they could've beaten the Coil and with Brown retiring they've got a gaping hole (and cap-space) in the forward ranks.   One could argue they've got Byfield ready to step in, but is he that ready?  He's certainly not at the Miller level that's for sure, and they've got several RHD prospects that are stuck behind Doughty, Roy, Durzi, Spence, Walker, ect....

[Alflives]

10 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

To me your scenario isn't that likely Alf.  At this stage in his career, with his competitiveness level, I don't see him taking the money and wasting the remaining years of his career on a bottom feeding team being a non-relevant player.  Way more likely in my view is that he gets traded to a team that's close already and needs him to complete their roster and who intend to re-sign him.  A team that has an abundance of picks in the minors who will not likely contribute to the window that is opening for them now, and/or who are buried under guys that aren't going anywhere anytime soon.  That's why the more I think about it the more I see LA as being a pretty good fit.  They're on the rise, if Doughty wasn't injured it's arguable they could've beaten the Coil and with Brown retiring they've got a gaping hole (and cap-space) in the forward ranks.   One could argue they've got Byfield ready to step in, but is he that ready?  He's certainly not at the Miller level that's for sure, and they've got several RHD prospects that are stuck behind Doughty, Roy, Durzi, Spence, Walker, ect....

If Miller isn't about making the biggest contract possible (as a UFA) then he just might take the offer JR makes, and stays with us.  If JR offers Miller 50 million, does Miller take that?  If he's about being on a team that is building to win then why not?  

[AC Readership]

26 minutes ago, NucknAsia said:

I don't think you get in the Bedard sweepstakes without accepting moving those players in this offseason. Else we middle again, barely make or barely miss the playoffs.

It's not about tanking, its about a strategic and deliberate quick rebuild....you accept a year or 2 of not making the playoffs, but know that in 2-3 years you will be making it again and will never look back.

 

I think JR has basically said this by saying his core is Petey, Quinn and Demko. I will be curious to see if they (and ownership) have the courage to do what's needed. Else all they will be doing is kicking the can down the road for another 10 years.

I see your points, I just don't see how if there's a quick rebuild that they don't bottom out this season and/or next.

 

They could be in the Bedard Sweepstakes & major sellers at the trade deadline next season if they start off slow and there are some injuries even without accepting moving some of these players.

[Gawdzukes]

6 hours ago, Rackdawg said:

U nailed it. mll...we have no f$@king clue as to what the other 30 teams managements thinking .

Thank you. I have to laugh at these people. Teams try to get better all the time. We have no clue what they will do to achieve that.

[Fanuck]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

If Miller isn't about making the biggest contract possible (as a UFA) then he just might take the offer JR makes, and stays with us.

I'm not ruling this possibility out myself.  I don't think it's likely, but I'm not saying it couldn't happen.  If he re-signs here then two things have probably happened and a third thing will occur after that.  First, Rutherford has decided that the years you get value from his contract will be worth suffering through the years where there will be inevitable decline (despite a certain number of people here trying to convince us all otherwise - there WILL be decline in performance during Miller's next contract at some point).  Second, Miller has decided that playing in Canada, with the same team he's been with for the past 3 seasons will be a good place to raise his family and continue (perhaps finish) his career despite taking a lower value then he could've earned through UFA.  Third, at least one (if not two) of BoHo, Boeser or Garland are not here much longer as there would be zero cap-flexibility - something JR has emphasized since day one.   

[NucknAsia]

7 minutes ago, AC Readership said:

I see your points, I just don't see how if there's a quick rebuild that they don't bottom out this season and/or next.

 

They could be in the Bedard Sweepstakes & major sellers at the trade deadline next season if they start off slow and there are some injuries even without accepting moving some of these players.

If we have Miller and Bo in the lineup, I can't see us not being a team that's not in the wildcard race. No chance we're having a season like we did under green imho. So you have to decide what's your strategy, and get it in place in the offseason.

 

If you want to build for 2-3 years out you know what the right course is. It's as I described

If you want to play the same game benning did, make the playoffs and see what happens but not have a contender ever, keep tinkering at the margins...and end up mired in mediocrity

[Gawdzukes]

14 minutes ago, NucknAsia said:

 

If you want to play the same game benning did, make the playoffs and see what happens but not have a contender ever, keep tinkering at the margins...and end up mired in mediocrity

With an outside chance to win a round or two with a hot goalie.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Gawdzukes

[higgyfan]

4 hours ago, Alflives said:

And that's the trouble with trying to get better while moving forward when a team should clearly be rebuilding/retooling.  We will almost certainly take a step back by trading Miller. He's a 99 point number one center, on a great contract. 

Sakic had a pretty good team and decided it wasn't good enough.  He traded away ROR and Duchene to retool around Mackinnon.  The Avs took a couple steps back to leap ahead (later) to where they are now.  Is Colorado a great team without those trades and a step back? 

Maybe we need to do similar and trade Miller and Bo?   

You need to hold your horses and wait 'till we see what happens over the offseason, Alf.  Much like Sakik, JR has stated 

that the Canucks have some great pieces, but he doesn't think the team is good enough.  Trading ROR and Duchene

is similar to the Canucks trading Miller and Boeser.  That is something that could very well happen in the offseason.

This team does not need a tear down rebuild, but a retool makes a lot of sense.  I can't imagine that the owner has

no idea what JR is planning.

 

As far as the team taking a step back...who knows?  What is a step back for this team anyways?  It's not like they

made the playoffs this year.  Maybe they can make the playoffs next season, if they get quality returns on assets

and manage the UFA market effectively.  Nobody is expecting them to be contenders, no matter what happens.

[aGENT]

8 hours ago, JM_ said:

not but overall that's probably a slight improvement 

When you look at the two teams in the finals...can you honestly tell me that a "slight improvement" is going to cut it?

[aGENT]

7 hours ago, NucknAsia said:

I'm curious, and not being facetious, truly curious since I don't know much about Marino. He's become a bit of the "player to target" on these boards,  as though he is a but of a savior....I have read pitts has soured on him a bit, and are actively trying to move him because of that. I am asking, how good is he, because perhaps we as fans are getting a bit ahead of ourselves because he's a RD, and over estimating his worth?

 

I am asking as I am curious if any have watched him and have a good look into his skill level?

 

Plays a lot like a young Tanev. While that's not a terribly "exciting" player, we've already seen how good that can look beside Hughes.

 

PIT is rumoured to be shopping him, largely so they can afford to extend Letang and move Marino for some potentially needed F depth.. 

[Coconuts]

6 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Where do you want to start?

 

This year?  Ok

 

2022:

Rakell for a 2nd rounder, Reese, Simon and Aston-reese

Lindholm (retention) and Curran for Moore, Vaakanainen, 1st and two 2nds

Manson for Helleson and a 2nd

 

2021:

Hakanpaa and a 6th for H Fleury

Ben Hutton for a 5th

Volkov for Morand and a 7th

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/trades/ducks

 

Look back, almost every year since they started being a non competitor back in 2017/2018 they've switched out non performing players, added youth and picks without hesitation.  They recognized failing seasons and capitalized on them.  All while hitting on some pretty important picks of their own since about 2017 when they started sliding in to irrelevancy.  When you compare that to vancouver in the same time; it's kind of apparent how one team is continually seeking future success vs success now

Anaheim's consistently made moves that have them looking to the future, they've got some good young pieces on their team still but have clearly embraced their rebuild. The sad thing is they've been a top team more recently than us and they're still better positioned than we are. We've got some top end young talent but we lack the prospect depth Anaheim has (and continues to) accrued. They've even got a similar caliber goaltender despite the rumours. 

 

For whatever reason this organization doesn't sell very often, and it's hurt us. Prior to Motte I think the last time we really sold was Burrows and Hansen? And before that Bieksa and Kesler? And we all know the Kesler story, he wanted out. We've been spinning our wheels and holding onto players we should be getting value for and it's frustrating.

 

6 hours ago, stawns said:

and the Canucks can retain 50% to make him even more attractive and increase the return

Yup, and if these next few seasons are building block seasons (and they likely are) we can afford to eat 2.6M for a single season. 

[grandmaster]

482 pages of opinions. They haven’t even started the contract talks yet!
 

[mll]

9 hours ago, Alflives said:

And that's the trouble with trying to get better while moving forward when a team should clearly be rebuilding/retooling.  We will almost certainly take a step back by trading Miller. He's a 99 point number one center, on a great contract. 

Sakic had a pretty good team and decided it wasn't good enough.  He traded away ROR and Duchene to retool around Mackinnon.  The Avs took a couple steps back to leap ahead (later) to where they are now.  Is Colorado a great team without those trades and a step back? 

Maybe we need to do similar and trade Miller and Bo?   

They took an immediate step forward after trading Duchene going from last to a playoff team.  It's been upwards ever since that trade.  

 

Duchene was traded after a season where they finished last with 48pts - 21pts lower than the next worse team.  Sakic was pretty much considered one of the worse GMs in the league before that Duchene trade.  Bednar was also being questioned as coach after such a poor season.

 

Sakic had tried to remain competitive by adding veterans and that plan failed.  Landeskog and Duchene were put on the trade block then.  Duchene was traded in season and they made the playoffs that year after finishing last the season before.  They had changed approach.  Sakic explained that if they were going to lose anyway they might as well lose with young players developing.  Handing the team over to the youth had them take a quicker step forward.  Moving Duchene put MacKinnon at C1 and he broke out that season.  

 

Behind the scenes they moved out quite a few scouts and remodelled the department.  They also relied more on analytics to build their team.