[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[Angry Goose]

1 minute ago, wai_lai416 said:

even if huberdeau doesn't reach 100+ points this season.. he will go for a 1st + prospect for sure at the TDL.. the guy have been well over a ppg for the last 4 years.. even a declining giroux got more than that.. if he re-signs they get a great player.. unless u think he's all of a sudden going to go from a ppg game to a 50-60 point guy out of no where. Weegar is a RHD and a legit top 4 defenseman.. RHD that every team would want.. again unless they are injured or disappear off the face of the earth.. they are pretty much guaranteed to net u a 1st each + more if they are to be traded and not re-signed.

we will see. 

[stawns]

23 minutes ago, Angry Goose said:

Tkachuk at his age and upside with an extension in place is IMO at the very high end as far as premium assets go.

 

CGY got two expiring contracts, a prospect and a first. Depending on what happens with the soon to be UFAs I think will matter with how the trade is evaluated but as it stands, CGY got far from a guaranteed haul for MT.  

 

Contextually it seems like a depressed market (for sellers). The past few big trades shows a reluctance by GMs to give up a ton of high end futures.

 

As the saying goes though, all it takes is one GM to change that but as it stands, Im not banking on JTM fetching a massive haul.  And there is risk hanging onto him in the hopes of a big trade. But I understand from mgmts perspective that they need to get value

back as well.  So for example if there is any merit to the following rumour, I would be ecstatic  if the Canucks could pry Newhook OR Byram from the avs (unlike the newhook + byram + 1st a lot of people said would make them CONSIDER a trade, which seems crazy in hindsight)

Oh, I think the time for a massive haul passed at the tdl.  Now, they have to be looking at something similar to Calgary, but less value........maybe a pending UFA and a young player with potential.

 

The two I've advocated for would be Girard and Newhook coming back.  They get a dynamic young dman back with a modestly high cap hit, but cost controlled for awhile and they get a young cman with potential.  They'd probably have to retain 50% on miller to make that happen.

 

The second is severson and mercer coming back.  Severson is a top 3 rhd, but is on an expiring contract and that's a risk.  However, his raise will be somewhat modest and he fits the team well.  Mercer is the insurance.......young, already a solid player and could slot into 3c right away.  I'd think they wouldn't retain salary on miller for this deal

 

 

[Jester13]

5 minutes ago, Angry Goose said:

gatekeeping trade talk-must be getting close to a 1000!

[wai_lai416]

Just now, Angry Goose said:

we will see. 

lol so if u think if they have a off season they are going to worth less than a 1st rounder minimum and prospects on top.. then isn't it more than reason to trade Miller now then? if he has an off season then he won't be worth as much.. i think too many people here are looking at the trades with a flame hating blinders on. Getting one of the top LW in the league if not the best the last 3-4+ seasons, a legit top 4 RHD.. a prospect and a 1st for a RFA that doesn't want to be there? that is a massive haul.. even if Weegar and Hub won't re-sign.. they'll end up with 3 1st and couple prospect.. 1st rounder not guaranteed anything.. but that's a massive kick start to their rebuild.. if hub and weegar leaves they are definitely rebuilding... they can probably go the rangers route mortgage off all their assets and have crazy amount of 1st rounders the next couple draft..

[Angry Goose]

Just now, stawns said:

Oh, I think the time for a massive haul passed at the tdl.  Now, they have to be looking at something similar to Calgary, but less value........maybe a pending UFA and a young player with potential.

 

The two I've advocated for would be Girard and Newhook coming back.  They get a dynamic young dman back with a modestly high cap hit, but cost controlled for awhile and they get a young cman with potential.  They'd probably have to retain 50% on miller to make that happen.

 

The second is severson and mercer coming back.  Severson is a top 3 rhd, but is on an expiring contract and that's a risk.  However, his raise will be somewhat modest and he fits the team well.  Mercer is the insurance.......young, already a solid player and could slot into 3c right away.  I'd think they wouldn't retain salary on miller for this deal

 

 

regarding Newhook/Girard for example, what if only 1/2 players you mention with each trade were available-  would you be ok with that?  At this point I think I would be. If the Canucks could extra on top of that-even better

[King Heffy]

2 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

lol so if u think if they have a off season they are going to worth less than a 1st rounder minimum and prospects on top.. then isn't it more than reason to trade Miller now then? if he has an off season then he won't be worth as much.. i think too many people here are looking at the trades with a flame hating blinders on. Getting one of the top LW in the league if not the best the last 3-4+ seasons, a legit top 4 RHD.. a prospect and a 1st for a RFA that doesn't want to be there? that is a massive haul.. even if Weegar and Hub won't re-sign.. they'll end up with 3 1st and couple prospect.. 1st rounder not guaranteed anything.. but that's a massive kick start to their rebuild.. if hub and weegar leaves they are definitely rebuilding... they can probably go the rangers route mortgage off all their assets and have crazy amount of 1st rounders the next couple draft..

Calgary's in danger of moving with their arena though, and their fans have gone 15 years without an NHL team.  A full rebuild might not be an option.

[EB43]

I would have drafted Kopitar over Miller.  To 1000!.. and beyond.

[Angry Goose]

3 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

 

[ilduce39]

Using the Tkachuk deal to evaluate Miller’s value is difficult.  
 

First, when Tkachuk became available there was an immediate bidding war as he’s viewed around the league as a unique asset.  He’s entering/is in his prime.  He obviously agreed before the trade to sign a max term deal with Florida.  
 

Second, the Weegar / Huberdeau return is legit but it matches the cap that Tkachuk signed for - and Florida would have been hard pressed to re-sign both after next year.   They now avoid that awkward “trade him or let him walk for free” mid-season moment on at least one of them.  From that angle this is a nice mid-long term move for Florida to keep their window open a lot longer. 
 

Pretty unique situation where Florida was likely to lose one of those guys anyways which made it make a lot more sense to just turn em into one younger guy in Tkachuk. 

[Warhippy]

16 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

We're starting to debate semantics, which means we're getting close to 1,000!

 

All we need is someone asking if weegar can play LHD or forward and what he'd cost the Canucks to get from Calgary and we'll be at 1000 by tomorrow morning 

[Angry Goose]

5 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

lol so if u think if they have a off season they are going to worth less than a 1st rounder minimum and prospects on top.. then isn't it more than reason to trade Miller now then? if he has an off season then he won't be worth as much.. i think too many people here are looking at the trades with a flame hating blinders on. Getting one of the top LW in the league if not the best the last 3-4+ seasons, a legit top 4 RHD.. a prospect and a 1st for a RFA that doesn't want to be there? that is a massive haul.. even if Weegar and Hub won't re-sign.. they'll end up with 3 1st and couple prospect.. 1st rounder not guaranteed anything.. but that's a massive kick start to their rebuild.. if hub and weegar leaves they are definitely rebuilding... they can probably go the rangers route mortgage off all their assets and have crazy amount of 1st rounders the next couple draft..

Again, nothing is for certain.  That’s all I have been advocating (for a bunch of reasons).

 

I can see a bunch of different outcomes some positive some negative.

 

Ive read commentary that the return CGY got from FLA was egregious.  Im not sold (yet).

[Coconuts]

Florida overpaid and that could impact the market, the trade doesn't as bad when you consider expiring contracts but they still overpaid in terms of value. This could be a norm going forward though, taking a loss to get what you want while navigating the cap.

 

Florida clearly felt it worth the cost, you don't get to keep everyone under the cap and as we've seen GM's aren't doing each other too many favors.

[Noble 6]

Looking at this trade, it's clear that we are closer to being in Florida's position rather than Calgary's when it comes to moving Miller. Miller is probably worth slightly less than Huberdeau (less elite skill and points, but he does play center and power-forward game, so tough to judge) and Weegar is an excellent piece to add as well, albeit on an expiring deal. 

 

A similar package that the Canucks could offer would be something like Miller, one of Garland or Hoglander (depending on the cap situation of the the other team), plus some future asset(s), including potentially our 2023 1st. That is a serious package, but there are a lot of things to consider in a trade this big:

• Who would the Canucks target in return?
• What teams would actually be open to making an aggressive trade like this?
• What teams could manipulate their cap space enough to make something like this happen? 
• What teams might Miller be willing to re-sign with? 

These are all significant factors and finding a deal that addresses all of them to our satisfaction is unlikely. There are some teams that have the cap space, but they would not be interested in Miller at all. Some teams may have the pieces that Canucks are looking for, but not the cap flexibility to make a deal of this magnitude. I think what we are realizing is that no team meets all of those criteria, which is why the trade hasn't happened yet. But other teams are making things happen and the clock is ticking. 

 

I think there are really only seven teams that might possibly match up with these conditions well enough to make a trade: The Devils, Islanders, Rangers, Hurricanes, Avalanche Leafs and Capitals. The Avalanche, Leafs and Capitals only have futures to offer and would likely only be interested in Miller rather than a larger package. The Hurricanes have Necas as an intriguing young player, but other than that we are looking purely at futures in return along with cap-balancing contracts from all of these teams. 

 

The Devils are an interesting possible partner. They don't have much cap space at the moment (8.7M, but re-signing Bratt and Wood will use up all of that room), but they have some contracts that can be included in this trade or moved out separately (Johnsson, Tatar, Severson). While their young defenseman in L. Hughes and Nemec are untouchable, an intriguing player there is Mercer. He's a 20 year old right-handed, sturdy center with speed to burn who put up over 40 points in his rookie year last year. He would be an excellent addition to our top-9 as either our 3C or a winger in the top-6. If we take back Severson as well then we address our RHD and simultaneously balance out the cap in the trade. Sharangovich is another young forward who could be an interesting fit with our forward group. This all hinges on whether the Devils actually want to be this aggressive in improving, which they may not be. Something like Miller + Hoglander + 1st 2023 (top-5 protected) for Mercer + Severson is the best I can come up with. I'm not sure if New Jersey would actually be interested in Miller that much, but after striking out on both Gaudreau and Tkachuk it's clear they want to do something big. 

 

The Rangers are also interesting since they have long been rumoured to be interested in Miller. Their cap situation is extremely rigid though, which means making a deal will be tough. We will definitely have to take back at least one contract. They do have some interesting young pieces though, including Lafreniere, Kakko, Schneider, Chytil, Kravtsov, etc. Our ideal targets would be Lafreniere or Schneider, but who knows if that can actually be done. Something like Miller + Hoglander + 2023 1st (top-3 protected) for Schneider + Goodrow is the best I can come up with there. I'm not convinced either team bites on that though. 

 

The Islanders are a dream big partner. Offering a massive package for Dobson didn't seem possible until now, but even then there's no guarantee that they actually accept it. They could very well choose to keep their young stud RHD. The real dream though is Barzal requesting a trade and listing Vancouver as one of his preferred destinations since he's from BC. A package similar to the one I outlined in the beginning would check a lot of boxes, but if the Islanders are looking for purely futures then something like Lekkerimakki + Garland/Hoglander + 1st 2023 (top-5 protected) + 2nd 2024 would be a lot to give up, but I think it would be worth it to get someone of Barzal's caliber. Keep in mind, this is all in a dream scenario. 

 

The bottom line is, the landscape for a Miller trade is pretty desolate right now. Teams do not have the flexibility to make these kind of moves this offseason and if Huberdeau is available at the deadline then it hurts a potential return for us at the deadline as well. Management has the benefit of the doubt until we see how this all ends. 

Edited July 24, 2022 by Horvat is a Boss

[Westcoastcanucks777]

2 hours ago, aGENT said:

Ditto. I so badly wanted to swap him and Virtanen when Bennett was asking for a trade out of Calgary and Virtanen still had some trade value. Would have even added a bit.

 

What if.... Sigh

Don’t worry it’s possible shotgun will be back pending verdict 

[spook007]

4 hours ago, gurn said:

Then league finds out and the team loses their next 5 first, and 2nd round draft picks for cap circumvention.

Plus a huge fine.

Exactly... hence that isn't going to happen.

[spook007]

3 hours ago, Warhippy said:

This is also good.  The thing is, if we're talking 6+ years it takes him to that 35+ area where GMs under the new rules get nervous.

 

Look what Malkin, future HoF first ballot got for 3 years after a fight by the Pens.

 

Nothing against Miller, but he's no Pavelski or Malkin.  A 4-5 year deal gives him every opportunity to control his destiny and prove he's not a one hit wonder.  Not a potential buyout or buried contract.

 

In 4-5 years at age 33-34 he can sign a 3-5 year deal that seems him play to retirement at a good clip to lad his pockets.

 

Again, that's where the age 33-34 contract comes in.  Skirts the 35+ buyout issues and ensures he earns that next contract while still banking $30+ million over 4 years 

 

If he performs he'll get another $7+ million contract for 3-4 years

 

If he doesn't he'll still get a $5.5+ million contract for what he can still do.

 

I'd hesitate to way more GMs are hesitating to trade for guys in his position because of that term/aav potential and the risks they bring 

I understand and agree... 

Regardless, of course, there comes a time, where our GM will say the same thing as you Warhippy... he may already have.

 

And I am quite sure the deal they are trying to make is around a 4-5 year deal possibly 7+M. (Maybe slightly longer at lower average)

 

Millers camp however will think its too risky, or at least wonder if there is a better deal on offer out there. I'm sure there would be other clubs licking their lips at a Miller for 4-5 years at 7-8M average, and they may include sunshine, bikinis, rum and coke, tax havens, and maybe a blow up doll or what ever...

 

The type of contract folks were thinking off here 8-9M for 7 years is not going to happen, for a possibly 1 season wonder. 

 

I love Millers attitude... there has been a lot of posters being frustrated with his attitude, but I don't mind a player, who wears his heart on his sleeve... as long as he doesn't take it out in the team mates or the locker room...  

 

But I like a lot others got stung by player name almost downing the tools here, and while I could live with an even severe reduced out put the last year or two, I hope we don't have to go through this kind of apathy again... 

 

So unless Miller comes in at above mentioned (similar to your suggestion or in that region), I don't see him playing here after his contract expires.

Which is a bit of a shame, as he is a bit of Ying to Peteys Yang...

 

And this is also, why I fear, Canucks has missed the train...  The return that was talked about prior to last TDL, are not going to happen... 

[spook007]

8 hours ago, Jester13 said:

We'll never know the full truth to the team division rumours, so although it's potentially all bs, it's possible that Miller's personality, when things weren't going so well, did in fact rub some guys the wrong way. It's not as simple as saying losing him will negatively affect the chemistry. Since we don't know, it's just as possible that it improves the chemistry. 

True...

[J-23]

If they wanted to move Miller they would’ve done it by now. He will be here opening night.

[stawns]

10 minutes ago, spook007 said:

I understand and agree... 

Regardless, of course, there comes a time, where our GM will say the same thing as you Warhippy... he may already have.

 

And I am quite sure the deal they are trying to make is around a 4-5 year deal possibly 7+M. (Maybe slightly longer at lower average)

 

Millers camp however will think its too risky, or at least wonder if there is a better deal on offer out there. I'm sure there would be other clubs licking their lips at a Miller for 4-5 years at 7-8M average, and they may include sunshine, bikinis, rum and coke, tax havens, and maybe a blow up doll or what ever...

 

The type of contract folks were thinking off here 8-9M for 7 years is not going to happen, for a possibly 1 season wonder. 

 

I love Millers attitude... there has been a lot of posters being frustrated with his attitude, but I don't mind a player, who wears his heart on his sleeve... as long as he doesn't take it out in the team mates or the locker room...  

 

But I like a lot others got stung by player name almost downing the tools here, and while I could live with an even severe reduced out put the last year or two, I hope we don't have to go through this kind of apathy again... 

 

So unless Miller comes in at above mentioned (similar to your suggestion or in that region), I don't see him playing here after his contract expires.

Which is a bit of a shame, as he is a bit of Ying to Peteys Yang...

 

And this is also, why I fear, Canucks has missed the train...  The return that was talked about prior to last TDL, are not going to happen... 

I still say he has every intention of leaving, short of a massive offer from Van

[Canucks Curse]

I do not really understand jersey

rumour was trying to get boudreau, tkachuk, debrincat but seem not interested in Miller now that those fish have landed elsewhere...
they trade for marino to play on the right when they have Hamilton and severson getting top 4 money and minutes on the right with that kid Shak who supposedly can play on the right...

 

What that team needs most outside of goaltending which they sort of addressed in non convincing fashion is a gritty top 6 veteran two way forward who gives an F, to complement miles woods

the last thing they need are more mcsofties like holtz, they have non gritty players in Hughes, hirschier, mercer, sherangovich, bratt, that top 6 screams soft....maybe they are going after kadri?

miller would be a perfect fit imo