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Right or wrong, can Horvat now lead this team?

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NHL97OneTimer

By NHL97OneTimer
in Canucks Talk

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Patel Bure Canucks Second-Line

Patel Bure

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/canucks-culture-problem-drama-leaders

 

This is being reported in the media who may have the inside scoop.  Perhaps it's not completely true, but it sure makes a whole lot of sense with what's going on right now.  We've ranted about GMs, Coaches, coaching systems and underperforming players, but what about culture?  When Tanev, Markstrom and Edler left I knew that would officially change the guard over.  I knew we'd miss their leadership but I would not have predicted that it would lead to such a gap that factions would take place.  It has me wondering if the Sedins can step in, but regardless, here's the question (with the assumption that the report is true):

 

Bo Horvat is the leader, but right or wrong, this article suggests he's lost the room almost completely.  Do the Canucks trade our Captain to provide more cohesion in the group or do they move those who sought to create the division in the room while leaving Horvat as a likely ineffective Captain moving forward?

 

Either way, there's no easy way forward.  Tough stuff, I don't want to see Horvat being moved and would rather see him succeed as Captain.  

It’s just the usual toxic and trollish Vancouver media trying to create a mountain out of a molehill.  I don’t doubt that there is some lockerroom friction, but this whole idea that the team has now “completely alienated Horvat outside of Pearson” is likely a ridiculous reach.   
 

In my opinion, both Horvat and Miller should be moved in independent deals for an elite prospect and that we completely tank this season and land someone like Wright or Geekie.  We then fire both Green and Benning at some point (at or before the end of the season).

 

If before July 1st 2022, the Canucks have.....

 

-two elite prospects from a Miller and Horvat deal.
-Either Wright or Geekie from the draft 

-Claude Julien or Bruce Budreau as coach

-A new GM

 

then I truly believe that a 2021 UFA will look at our team, analyze our prospect pool and core pieces, analyze our infrastructure, and see the Canucks as a viable opportunity from both a short term and long term perspective.

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Darius Canucks Star

Darius

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Posted (edited)

Geez, i remember the same talk around Trevor Linden starting in the 95 season and up till he was traded.  Too soft, doesnt lead, doesnt fight.

 

I think Bo is a decent 2nd line centre and probably a really good 3c (on a really good team).  It doesnt help that he is saddled with Pearson and a revolving door of wingers on the opposite wing.  

 

Bo is the type of player that will elevate his game in the playoffs, we have seen it on the occasions that the Canucks have actually made the playoffs. In 2015 I thought he outshone any of Calgary's young players, 18 year old included.  In the bubble he was a beast.

 

Anyhow, the following is a link to the Canuck usenet newsgroup - it was the first Canuck forum on usenet/internet, and existed way before this website.  Have a look at what fans were saying about Linden in the mid-late 90s, and see the parallels here.  Then ask yourself was the criticism warranted?  I think we are doing the same thing now.

 

(warning...there were no moderators back then so some of the language is foul ;-)

 

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.sports.hockey.nhl.vanc-canucks/c/W7JVKsUiHO8/m/2cV328bY4D4J

 

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.sports.hockey.nhl.vanc-canucks/c/r1a7ihYtfkA/m/AYaYJi53PRAJ

Edited by Darius
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garthsbutcher Canucks Rookie

garthsbutcher

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Outsiders said:

Horvat isn't in my good books right now. I've always liked the clutch factor with him showing up in big moments. 

 

With that being said, in my opinion he's always been to soft for my liking. 

 

After having Henrik as captain and how Horvat was groomed, I knew it was always going to be turn and skate away with Horvat. 

 

As soon as I saw Podzilla get decked by McNabb and Horvat saw and skated away he completely lost my respect. I might add OEL the furthest player on the ice came charging in and stuck up for Podz. 0 career fights. Thats someone that understands the meaning of being a leader. 

 

You don't turn away from a teammate period and especially not a rookie. 

 

Not sure how some of these players were raised but when the going gets tough you don't roll over and die. You double down and find a way. 

 

Horvat is more than capable of throwing a big hit or taking a fight to show he cares. Show some pride and show some heart. Call a players only meeting. 

 

That is my problem with Bo, is he seems to be content with losing and accepts it. Until he shows some emotion out there I will always question him

 

Again, good clutch player, but I don't think he's a true captain. 

 

He seems to be out there just for the paycheque 

 

 

EDIT - If the rift with Miller is true its really sad. Why would Horvat care if Miller is stepping up to take some pressure off. He's an assistant after all. These guys get there feelings hurt too easily. Maybe if Horvat called it like it is and commanded respect he'd get it. The reason guys gravitate towards Miller is he's emotional and shows he cares. Again, Horvat seems to accept losing.

Post of the year, Horvat not protecting a younger player was the last straw in terms of leadership or lack thereof

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wallstreetamigo Canucks All-Star

wallstreetamigo

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Posted

I’m not sure the fractures in the dressing room are as severe as the media is suggesting. 
 

I do think a new GM, a new coach, and a new captain might be necessary to change the culture of apathy on this team.

 

Horvat was a great captain until he got the C. Now he is indistinguishable from Green both in how he talks and how he plays most of the time. This year he has been lazy, disengaged, and has no sense of urgency. 
 

I am a fan of Horvat but it’s clear he is not the actual leader in the room anymore. If the rumours of him demanding Pearson get re-signed and played with him are true, then I hope he gets traded while his value is high. That pairing in the top 6 is easily the most ineffective offensively and overrated defensively I have seen in a long time. A half decent coach would demote Pearson, not Miller, Hoglander, Garland, EP, Boeser, Podkolzin instead every game. Pearson has been absolute dog $&!# this year yet never loses a minute of time. 

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Ballisticsports. Canucks Regular

Ballisticsports.

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, EddieVedder said:

Hilarious how all you fans have bought into this made up story by that clown sekeres.  

 

Maybe Sekeres saw my post on here before?:rolleyes:

I wasn't stating it was fact though and only suggesting as to why the team hadn't removed Benning and Green, because maybe what was going on right now was more of a player issue of boys not wanting to play together 

 

What if babies are saying don't put me on his line (then don't play if the coach does)?

That seemed to be plausible why so many players playing bad and that JB and TG still here

Maybe ownership was trying to see if they could get past this and realize a team isn't about yourself

Keep it in house, rather than expose and lessen trade value if they have to go that route

 

Aquaman did tweet not that long ago that he had confidence in JB and TG so even that suggests he knew the problem was bigger than them?

Sounds like they need a team counsellor and need to grow up  get their heads in the right frame of mind, work together, realize that it is ok to disagree and still respect someone and make playing fun again

 

If they don't work it out, if we start to see a player(s) moved before any management, we will know they couldn't

I would suspect he tries to make the moves in tandem and quickly like the ones in the summer, so not to lessen the trades

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Ghostsof1915 Canucks Hall-of-Famer

Ghostsof1915

Posted
Posted
49 minutes ago, allegend said:

I think the team really misses Brandon Sutter, both on the 

ice and in the dressing room. I think the Canucks were

4-8-1 in the 13 games he missed last season. We know

what the team's dismal record is so far this season.

Makes sense, he one of the few true centres on the team. The team needs someone to take the face-off load of Miller and Horvat. 

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DS4quality Canucks Third-Line

DS4quality

Posted
Posted
37 minutes ago, Darius said:

Geez, i remember the same talk around Trevor Linden starting in the 95 season and up till he was traded.  Too soft, doesnt lead, doesnt fight.

 

I think Bo is a decent 2nd line centre and probably a really good 3c (on a really good team).  It doesnt help that he is saddled with Pearson and a revolving door of wingers on the opposite wing.  

 

Bo is the type of player that will elevate his game in the playoffs, we have seen it on the occasions that the Canucks have actually made the playoffs. In 2015 I thought he outshone any of Calgary's young players, 18 year old included.  In the bubble he was a beast.

 

Anyhow, the following is a link to the Canuck usenet newsgroup - it was the first Canuck forum on usenet/internet, and existed way before this website.  Have a look at what fans were saying about Linden in the mid-late 90s, and see the parallels here.  Then ask yourself was the criticism warranted?  I think we are doing the same thing now.

 

(warning...there were no moderators back then so some of the language is foul ;-)

 

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.sports.hockey.nhl.vanc-canucks/c/W7JVKsUiHO8/m/2cV328bY4D4J

 

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.sports.hockey.nhl.vanc-canucks/c/r1a7ihYtfkA/m/AYaYJi53PRAJ

I think we see things in a similar lens,  maybe it's because we've seen it before and paid attention.

 

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GB5 Canucks Star

GB5

Posted
Posted
39 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Bo is not the problem here, he is a great leader. Trade Miller while his value is high. Fans turning on Horvat after he has given us 5+ years of great hockey is weak. 

If anything this kind of negstive media coverage will motivate Bo to not want to stay in Vancouver.

 

Bo is the leader of this team and the Canucks top centre. He is needed here.

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JustABandwagoner Canucks Third-Line

JustABandwagoner

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Curmudgeon said:

Bo could fetch a rather substantial return from anybody looking for a strong second line centre. On a good team he would be awesome because he wouldn't be expected to lead, and the one thing about leadership that most people fail to grasp is that leadership requires followership. If nobody follows, then the leader isn't. If his teammates have tuned him out, he's done. Hand the keys to OEL and be done with it.

I wonder if FLA would be interested in Horvat. I would consider Anton Lundell. 

 

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/360145/anton-lundell

Edited by DontMessMe
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Me_ Canucks Franchise Player

Me_

Posted
Posted

Right or wrong, can Horvat now lead this team…

 

First of all, the question has nothing to be right or wrong about. 
 

Second, Horvat has been leading this team since 2019. 
 

Can he NOW lead this team, why yes he can.

 

Can he CONTINUE to lead this team, well, in a Miller tone; I don’t know.

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