[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks

[NHL97OneTimer]

15 hours ago, Coconuts said:

I wouldn't, but they could extend him before it got around to qualifying offer territory 

Thanks....I wasn't sure if they could do this or not (if Brock would do it).

[NHL97OneTimer]

16 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

Surround him with a legitimate team and coach, and i think he soars. 

 

This organization from top to bottom would be hard to work for. It’s a mess. If the fans are frustrated, can you imagine being a player??

 

Surround Bo with a good team, with good systems, and he will flourish. I truly believe that. 

 

Coaching for sure.  Better players....to a point.  We know that this team is better on paper and historically.  They are underperforming and a big part of leadership's job is to help pull the team out of this slump (is it a slump at this point?).  

 

So, saying the captain will be better if those around him are better is a bit of an unfortunate statement about our captain.  

 

I love Bo and want him to thrive, but this is the ultimate test of a captain and this is where he's needed most.

[Coconuts]

4 minutes ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

Thanks....I wasn't sure if they could do this or not (if Brock would do it).

No worries

 

My understanding is that the qualifying offer is what they've got make in order to retain his RFA rights, but if they re-sign him before it gets to that point the qualifying offer doesn't really matter all that much

 

But I could be wrong 

[Screw]

We need more Horvat not less.  Of course there is interest in this workhorse player.   Canucks would be insane to trade this guy.

[CaptKirk888]

Imo they should hold off on trading anyone. Despite the record we have some really good talent here and when they gel (or coaching/management changes) watch out.

[appleboy]

3 minutes ago, Screw said:

We need more Horvat not less.  Of course there is interest in this workhorse player.   Canucks would be insane to trade this guy.

Are you prepared to let him walk in 2024. Do you think this club will be competitive enough to make him want to resign?

[rekker]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

There's one player left who was here before JB........how is that not a complete rebuild of the roster?

It's a rebuild, retool, revamp. It's not working. I've been vocal in that I am ok with the skillset. I still love the OEL Garland trade. But I can't blame JB for BB and EP taking steps back. I've been vocal for JB re-hiring Green aka Coach Ghandi. Mostly vocal on the physically weak lineup. All that turnover and this is as weak a Canucks lineup I've ever seen. No push. A decade later and Marchand embarrassed us again. Low point for me and JB has to be held accountable for it. If not now, year end or when a viable candidate presents himself. 

[Provost]

24 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

No worries

 

My understanding is that the qualifying offer is what they've got make in order to retain his RFA rights, but if they re-sign him before it gets to that point the qualifying offer doesn't really matter all that much

 

But I could be wrong 

He could sign for less but really has no motivation to do so.

He becomes an automatic UFA if they don’t qualify him and can pick his landing spot.  He can also just go to arbitration and get deals which takes him to UFA.

Why would he sign for less.

[Screw]

12 minutes ago, appleboy said:

Are you prepared to let him walk in 2024. Do you think this club will be competitive enough to make him want to resign?

I think they will be able to resign him.  Yes I think the team will not be the train wreck it is right now.

[Canuck Luck]

delete

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Canuck Luck

[Dazzle]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

and that's why theyve never tanked

That's not true at all, if you're talking about the Avs. There's been plenty of bad seasons. The Avalanche fluked out on some draft picks too. Bednar vs Green... both were rookie coaches, but one of them is viewed quite poorly.

 

42 Seasons

• An asterisk (*) indicates a playoff appearance

Season	Lg	Team	GP	W	L	T	OL	PTS	PTS%	SRS	SOS	Finish	Playoffs	Coaches	Division	Conference
2021-22	NHL	Colorado Avalanche	18	11	6		1	23	.639	0.94	0.00	4th of 8		J. Bednar (11-6-1)	Central	Western
2020-21	NHL	Colorado Avalanche*	56	39	13		4	82	.732	1.00	-0.14	1st of 8	Lost NHL Second Round	J. Bednar (39-13-4)	West
2019-20	NHL	Colorado Avalanche*	70	42	20		8	92	.657	0.64	-0.02	2nd of 7	Lost NHL Second Round	J. Bednar (42-20-8)	Central	Western
2018-19	NHL	Colorado Avalanche*	82	38	30		14	90	.549	0.17	-0.01	5th of 7	Lost NHL Second Round	J. Bednar (38-30-14)	Central	Western
2017-18	NHL	Colorado Avalanche*	82	43	30		9	95	.579	0.28	0.04	4th of 7	Lost NHL First Round	J. Bednar (43-30-9)	Central	Western
2016-17	NHL	Colorado Avalanche	82	22	56		4	48	.293	-1.32	0.05	7th of 7		J. Bednar (22-56-4)	Central	Western
2015-16	NHL	Colorado Avalanche	82	39	39		4	82	.500	-0.26	0.03	6th of 7		P. Roy (39-39-4)	Central	Western
2014-15	NHL	Colorado Avalanche	82	39	31		12	90	.549	-0.04	0.06	7th of 7		P. Roy (39-31-12)	Central	Western
2013-14	NHL	Colorado Avalanche*	82	52	22		8	112	.683	0.40	0.04	1st of 7	Lost NHL First Round	P. Roy (52-22-8)	Central	Western
2012-13	NHL	Colorado Avalanche	48	16	25		7	39	.406	-0.73	0.02	5th of 5		J. Sacco (16-25-7)	Northwest	Western
2011-12	NHL	Colorado Avalanche	82	41	35		6	88	.537	-0.13	0.01	3rd of 5		J. Sacco (41-35-6)	Northwest	Western
2010-11	NHL	Colorado Avalanche	82	30	44		8	68	.415	-0.70	0.05	4th of 5		J. Sacco (30-44-8)	Northwest	Western

 

 

[5nothincanucksohno]

6 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

I think you have the right idea but I would say there are some extra/unnecessary names in that lineup (core).

Agreed re: core, can't trade everyone though and need some role players. I think the guys left in could provide good stability, provided the team can acquie some additional "core" impact players.

[MeanSeanBean]

Who's going to take face-offs if we trade Horvat?

[kenhodgejr]

Horvat could fetch us a good right shot defense man. Make Myers as part of the package and a 3/4th right shot center coming back

[mll]

6 hours ago, Provost said:

He could sign for less but really has no motivation to do so.

He becomes an automatic UFA if they don’t qualify him and can pick his landing spot.  He can also just go to arbitration and get deals which takes him to UFA.

Why would he sign for less.

He actually would still have 1 year left to UFA.  UFA is earliest between age 27 and 7 pro-years.  He turns 25 this season and has 5 pro-seasons (it's minimum 40 games) so 2 seasons left.

 

The team can avoid the qualifying offer by filing for team elected arbitration.  Gives them then time to continue to try and negotiate a deal till the hearing.  The award if the arbitration goes through can't be less than 85% of his last season -  so 6.375M.

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by mll

[Provost]

35 minutes ago, mll said:

He actually would still have 1 year left to UFA.  UFA is earliest between age 27 and 7 pro-years.  He turns 25 this season and has 5 pro-seasons (it's minimum 40 games) so 2 seasons left.

 

The team can avoid the qualifying offer by filing for team elected arbitration.  Gives them then time to continue to try and negotiate a deal till the hearing.  The award if the arbitration goes through can't be less than 85% of his last season -  so 6.375M.

 

Yes… but he can just repeat the process for one more year.  That is literally why I typed out “deals” instead of singular “deal”.

 

He is not obliged to sign any offers or long term contracts.  As my post said, he certainly doesn’t have any motivation to sign for less than his qualifying offer.7

 

If the team takes him to arbitration he gets to decide whether it is a 1 or 2 year term.  The 2 year term walks him perfectly to UFA.  That would be exceedingly dumb for the team to do.

 

Thanks for the unnecessary explanation…

Edited November 30, 2021 by Provost

[shiznak]

11 hours ago, SilentSam said:

He dosent,  if rarely,  sticks up for teammates,.   It’s starts to change at a slow pace ,  but I put that on bringing a tenacious Miller, Garland, and even OEL has that moxy.

 

if it’s not Horvat,.  It’s Boeser bringing us an Alex Tuch type power forward..

personally I love watching Trenin play on Nashville..  but this season he has embedded himself with Nashville..

becoming a Neely type forward.

 

 

 

[Coconuts]

37 minutes ago, shiznak said:

 

 

 

He's been more noticeable in scrums lately imo while continuing to be the guy we lean on the hardest for faceoff duty. His offensive game is better than he's shown, and the same can be said of other guys we've got. 

 

He's shown more signs of life there with a goal and an assist in his last four games. 

 

The biggest issue with moving Horvat out imo is that you've got to replace him, and we don't have anyone on this roster capable of taking on that role. Hell, we don't have a prospect in our system who can step into that role. Miller's been playing a bit of center, but I still see him as more of a winger, and I think he's less likely than Horvat to stick around long term. Going out and finding a center to replace Horvat would likely cost the same as it'd cost to retain him or more. And we've have to duke it out with every other team trying to land free agents.

 

I'd try and re-sign him sooner than later, but if we can't come to terms he's got to be shipped out next season. Miller too if he hasn't already been shipped out. We can't afford to lose top assets for nothing, not when losing them would hurt our playoff chances and potentially signal a mini rebuild depending on where we're at. 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Coconuts

[N4ZZY]

17 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

He's been more noticeable in scrums lately imo while continuing to be the guy we lean on the hardest for faceoff duty. His offensive game is better than he's shown, and the same can be said of other guys we've got. 

 

He's shown more signs of life there with a goal and an assist in his last four games. 

 

The biggest issue with moving Horvat out imo is that you've got to replace him, and we don't have anyone on this roster capable of taking on that role. Hell, we don't have a prospect in our system who can step into that role. Miller's been playing a bit of center, but I still see him as more of a winger, and I think he's less likely than Horvat to stick around long term. Going out and finding a center to replace Horvat would likely cost the same as it'd cost to retain him or more. And we've have to duke it out with every other team trying to land free agents.

 

I'd try and re-sign him sooner than later, but if we can't come to terms he's got to be shipped out next season. Miller too if he hasn't already been shipped out. We can't afford to lose top assets for nothing, not when losing them would hurt our playoff chances and potentially signal a mini rebuild depending on where we're at. 

Bo's been playing a little better lately, so here's hoping the team turns a corner offensively at least, and the players that were expected to score goals and lead offensively will start doing just that. 

 

I love Bo and love that he's our captain. I hope the organization doesn't do the stupid thing and trade him. 

 

Boeser on the other hand. Ugh, could get ugly with his QO, and especially if ownership moves slower than a snail with relieving Benning and Weisbrod and finding their replacements ASAP. 

 

It's true that we don't have anyone to replace Bo. So, if he's traded, there needs to be someone of his equal coming back here. 

 

With that being said, I still say Miller is the one to go. For all the talk about his points per game, he's kind of disappeared over the last few games. Combine that with the fact that he's going to be close to 30 by the time his current deal with the Canucks is up, and I don't really see him resigning here for his last contract. I think he's going to move on. If the organization even senses that, or knows that by talking to him, then they need to find a trading partner and get maximum, and I mean, absolute maximum return for JT. I say, a 1st rounder coming back, and a young RHD as well for a guy who can be the emotional leader, put up points, and pretty much do everything you want in a forward. If that's not worth a promising prospect and a 1st round pick, I'm not sure what is. 

 

I see Miller being shipped out by this year's trade deadline honestly. Even if the team starts playing better, I do not think they can go on a once in a generation type of run that St. Louis did. This season's lost already, even 23 games into the new year. Too much to hope for. We also need the other teams in our division to start going on long long losing slides, I guess anything's possible - but not likely. If anything, those teams are probably going to catch fire in December and January which will bury the Canucks even more. 

 

This season's a wash. Time to just watch the games without expectation that the club will go on this immaculate run to get into the postseason. 

 

The farther they are in the standings, the more likely change will occur. 

 

[Coconuts]

4 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

Bo's been playing a little better lately, so here's hoping the team turns a corner offensively at least, and the players that were expected to score goals and lead offensively will start doing just that. 

 

I love Bo and love that he's our captain. I hope the organization doesn't do the stupid thing and trade him. 

 

Boeser on the other hand. Ugh, could get ugly with his QO, and especially if ownership moves slower than a snail with relieving Benning and Weisbrod and finding their replacements ASAP. 

 

It's true that we don't have anyone to replace Bo. So, if he's traded, there needs to be someone of his equal coming back here. 

 

With that being said, I still say Miller is the one to go. For all the talk about his points per game, he's kind of disappeared over the last few games. Combine that with the fact that he's going to be close to 30 by the time his current deal with the Canucks is up, and I don't really see him resigning here for his last contract. I think he's going to move on. If the organization even senses that, or knows that by talking to him, then they need to find a trading partner and get maximum, and I mean, absolute maximum return for JT. I say, a 1st rounder coming back, and a young RHD as well for a guy who can be the emotional leader, put up points, and pretty much do everything you want in a forward. If that's not worth a promising prospect and a 1st round pick, I'm not sure what is. 

 

I see Miller being shipped out by this year's trade deadline honestly. Even if the team starts playing better, I do not think they can go on a once in a generation type of run that St. Louis did. This season's lost already, even 23 games into the new year. Too much to hope for. We also need the other teams in our division to start going on long long losing slides, I guess anything's possible - but not likely. If anything, those teams are probably going to catch fire in December and January which will bury the Canucks even more. 

 

This season's a wash. Time to just watch the games without expectation that the club will go on this immaculate run to get into the postseason. 

 

The farther they are in the standings, the more likely change will occur. 

 

I'd definitely prefer to keep Bo, and I agree we should be looking to move Miller. Maybe Miller and Boeser, management would do well to gauge what sort of salary/term expectations Boeser has going forward. 

 

Centers are trickier to replace than wingers, though I still believe Boeser can bounce back. Replacing coaching and management staff would go a long way towards beginning to piece things out. 

 

Not sure I'd even want to move Bo in a hockey trade for another center, sometimes you're better off with the devil you know. But it depends on the offer. 

 

I agree with you on Miller, I'm just not sure where I'd peg his value. I admittedly haven't noticed him as much the last few games. But yeah, we need value for him. If we're going to be regrouping and possibly missing the playoffs next season as well we'll need all the assets we can get to accelerate that process. I expect he'll be moved before the deadline, we've got like.. what.. a 5% chance of making it? When was the last time a team went on a tear of the sort required to get back into it from where we're at? We aren't build like that Blues team, and our coaching staff are worse. We're in an even deeper hole than they were if I remember correctly. 

 

Season is toast, we should absolutely be looking to the future.