[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks

[Canuck Luck]

Only an idiot would trade horvat when this team already sucks down the middle. Short sighted and uninformed.

[canuck73_3]

No

[Me_]

On 12/1/2021 at 7:50 PM, D-Money said:

I wouldn't trade Bo until next year, when it's a sure thing that he won't re-sign. I'd move Miller, Motte, and Halak this year, and try again with a new coach next year. Things may improve, and Bo may want to stay. 

Miller is our top scorer, Motte is a relentless forward, and Halak is the least of the Canucks’ problems.

 

Sideway dealing if not at a loss.

 

I disagree.

 

New coach first. 

[D-Money]

1 minute ago, Me_ said:

Miller is our top scorer, Motte is a relentless forward, and Halak is the least of the Canucks’ problems.

 

Sideway dealing if not at a loss.

 

I disagree.

 

New coach first. 

But we're missing the playoffs. Motte and Halak are UFAs. The former has significant injury history, and the latter is turning 37 in May. We should probably not be re-signing them, and cut our losses for picks/prospects.

 

Miller is someone who I think we could get a king's ransom for. He's also getting close to 30, and probably not someone we can re-sign next year. Might as well maximize his trade value, and look to building for the future.

 

I swear, it seems people don't realize how shallow our prospect pool is right now. Sure, we have lots of young players on the team. But we have very little coming up for support, injury fill-ins, or trade chips (when we actually start winning again).

[appleboy]

On 12/1/2021 at 7:26 PM, Canuck Luck said:

Only an idiot would trade horvat when this team already sucks down the middle. Short sighted and uninformed.

If Horvat is willing to retire a Canuck then you keep him. What if he wants a fresh start? This guy is durable so I would gladly sign him long term. 

 

You need to be sure. 

[DeNiro]

18 minutes ago, D-Money said:

But we're missing the playoffs. Motte and Halak are UFAs. The former has significant injury history, and the latter is turning 37 in May. We should probably not be re-signing them, and cut our losses for picks/prospects.

 

Miller is someone who I think we could get a king's ransom for. He's also getting close to 30, and probably not someone we can re-sign next year. Might as well maximize his trade value, and look to building for the future.

 

I swear, it seems people don't realize how shallow our prospect pool is right now. Sure, we have lots of young players on the team. But we have very little coming up for support, injury fill-ins, or trade chips (when we actually start winning again).

Just like Tanev had an injury history?

 

Motte is only 26. We need to be re-signing him not trading him for a draft pick.

 

I’d rather give 2.5 mil to him than to Dickinson. Motte has way more value to the team.

[D-Money]

4 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Just like Tanev had an injury history?

 

Motte is only 26. We need to be re-signing him not trading him for a draft pick.

 

I’d rather give 2.5 mil to him than to Dickinson. Motte has way more value to the team.

He’s missed about half our games since the start of the 2019-20 season. Given his style of play, and his injuries so far, I don’t think he’ll age well at all.

 

That said, if we get a 2nd rounder for him, and he’s available in free agency, I’m not against circling back to him, depending on the term. But at this point we need to stock the cupboards…

[Me_]

11 hours ago, D-Money said:

But we're missing the playoffs. Motte and Halak are UFAs. The former has significant injury history, and the latter is turning 37 in May. We should probably not be re-signing them, and cut our losses for picks/prospects.

 

Miller is someone who I think we could get a king's ransom for. He's also getting close to 30, and probably not someone we can re-sign next year. Might as well maximize his trade value, and look to building for the future.

 

I swear, it seems people don't realize how shallow our prospect pool is right now. Sure, we have lots of young players on the team. But we have very little coming up for support, injury fill-ins, or trade chips (when we actually start winning again).

And how do you think getting to the playoffs works? By selling all your best assets and perpetually rebuilding?

 

You know that players are humans with emotions and create attachments to other humans? If you keep selling half the team out, those relationships which manifest themselves as “chemistry”, and which are more important now than ever since there are more players on the moves today than at any other time in the history of the league; how will such chemistry develop? How will the team develop an identity?

 

Miller and Motte are the motors of this teams. 
 

Get yourself a nice Mercedes. Love the car with all your might, and then sell the engine. See how far you get with your beloved Mercedes.

 

Edited December 4, 2021 by Me_

[DeNiro]

52 minutes ago, D-Money said:

He’s missed about half our games since the start of the 2019-20 season. Given his style of play, and his injuries so far, I don’t think he’ll age well at all.

 

That said, if we get a 2nd rounder for him, and he’s available in free agency, I’m not against circling back to him, depending on the term. But at this point we need to stock the cupboards…

People said the same thing about Tanev and now look where we’re at. Tanev is playing some of the best hockey of his career and meanwhile our pk and defensive game is a mess.

 

Motte is the same age as Horvat. Thinking his career is anywhere close to being done is silly. We’ve seen how much we struggle without him in the lineup. He’s the only legit energy bottom 6 pker we have. Letting him go just means we have to overpay another player like Dickinson in free agency.

 

Not enough importance is being put on really good bottom 6 players. We honestly should be thinking about building our bottom 6 around Motte not trading him for a messily 2nd rounder. Replacing him will cost that 2nd rounder or 2-3 mil in cap space for a player who might not even be as good.

 

Re-sign Motte, trade Pearson and Miller.

[canuck73_3]

10 hours ago, Me_ said:

And how do you think getting to the playoffs works? By selling all your best assets and perpetually rebuilding?

 

You know that players are humans with emotions and create attachments to other humans? If you keep selling half the team out, those relationships which manifest themselves as “chemistry”, and which are more important now than ever since there are more players on the moves today than at any other time in the history of the league; how will such chemistry develop? How will the team develop an identity?

 

Miller and Motte are the motors of this teams. 
 

Get yourself a nice Mercedes. Love the car with all your might, and then see the engine. See how far you get with your beloved Mercedes.

 

Yeah, my Mercedes works absolutely lovely with the engine. 

[Noseforthenet]

It's gonna be a no from me. We can't win faceoffs. Bo is pretty much the only one who can do that right now. None of the core pieces can or should really be traded before firing Travis Green, to see if it changes anything.

[Junkyard Dog]

10 hours ago, Me_ said:

And how do you think getting to the playoffs works? By selling all your best assets and perpetually rebuilding?

 

You know that players are humans with emotions and create attachments to other humans? If you keep selling half the team out, those relationships which manifest themselves as “chemistry”, and which are more important now than ever since there are more players on the moves today than at any other time in the history of the league; how will such chemistry develop? How will the team develop an identity?

 

Miller and Motte are the motors of this teams. 
 

Get yourself a nice Mercedes. Love the car with all your might, and then see the engine. See how far you get with your beloved Mercedes.

 

If we try a new coach and still fail still then the likelihood of us re-signing our big UFAs is pretty nil. Miller and Horvat likely won't stay on a losing team. Especially when they'd be top free agents with a chance to go to a winning team.

 

To lose them for nothing would be pretty catastrophic.

 

Emotions and chemistry are important but losing doesn't exactly bring about the best of emotions. Losing usually means the chemistry you're trying to build isn't working either. Losing stands out more than anything and hockey is a business, lets not forget that.

 

These next two drafts are pretty big too. So if we're gonna suck regardless than that needs to be taken into consideration.

 

A new coach first though. We should definitely exercise all options before considering trading expiring assets. We're maxed out with the cap for a while so we have to have success with the group we have.

[Coconuts]

11 hours ago, D-Money said:

But we're missing the playoffs. Motte and Halak are UFAs. The former has significant injury history, and the latter is turning 37 in May. We should probably not be re-signing them, and cut our losses for picks/prospects.

 

Miller is someone who I think we could get a king's ransom for. He's also getting close to 30, and probably not someone we can re-sign next year. Might as well maximize his trade value, and look to building for the future.

 

I swear, it seems people don't realize how shallow our prospect pool is right now. Sure, we have lots of young players on the team. But we have very little coming up for support, injury fill-ins, or trade chips (when we actually start winning again).

This is the biggest reason why I think we've got to take a hard look at moving Miller. Management, current or incoming, needs to weigh who they see being a part of this clubs future.

 

Miller's our leading scorer, he's a driver, but that's exactly why he'd bring in a big haul. We haven't been winning with Miller, and if we aren't winning next season we'll either have to take less than we'd get now in a trade or let him walk for nothing.

 

Miller will never be more valuable for us than he is right now, given that extra year on a very manageable contract. And yeah, our cupboards are pretty empty now that our blue chip guys have all graduated.

 

18 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

If we try a new coach and still fail still then the likelihood of us re-signing our big UFAs is pretty nil. Miller and Horvat likely won't stay on a losing team. Especially when they'd be top free agents with a chance to go to a winning team.

 

To lose them for nothing would be pretty catastrophic.

 

Emotions and chemistry are important but losing doesn't exactly bring about the best of emotions. Losing usually means the chemistry you're trying to build isn't working either. Losing stands out more than anything and hockey is a business, lets not forget that.

 

These next two drafts are pretty big too. So if we're gonna suck regardless than that needs to be taken into consideration.

 

A new coach first though. We should definitely exercise all options before considering trading expiring assets. We're maxed out with the cap for a while so we have to have success with the group we have.

You're right, this organization absolutely can't afford to lose premium assets like Horvat or Miller for nothing. And if they're out of the race, which we are, they absolutely should be looking to sell and restock the cupboards a bit. Teams do it every year, but it's rare that we've been sellers. 

 

I'd try a new coach first, but realistically we should be sellers this season. 

[N4ZZY]

2 hours ago, Coconuts said:

This is the biggest reason why I think we've got to take a hard look at moving Miller. Management, current or incoming, needs to weigh who they see being a part of this clubs future.

 

Miller's our leading scorer, he's a driver, but that's exactly why he'd bring in a big haul. We haven't been winning with Miller, and if we aren't winning next season we'll either have to take less than we'd get now in a trade or let him walk for nothing.

 

Miller will never be more valuable for us than he is right now, given that extra year on a very manageable contract. And yeah, our cupboards are pretty empty now that our blue chip guys have all graduated.

 

You're right, this organization absolutely can't afford to lose premium assets like Horvat or Miller for nothing. And if they're out of the race, which we are, they absolutely should be looking to sell and restock the cupboards a bit. Teams do it every year, but it's rare that we've been sellers. 

 

I'd try a new coach first, but realistically we should be sellers this season. 

We should be sellers this season, but we shouldn’t be selling everyone on the roster. 

 

Players I’d move: Miller and possibly Boeser.

[N4ZZY]

2 hours ago, Coconuts said:

I'd try a new coach first

You know with this two game winning streak, I think Green’s got a little bit of a runway. I think this 6 game homestand will be his last stand. If it goes poorly, then I don’t think he survives. I can see a split 3-3 homestand? Which does nothing for the team. We don’t move forward, and we aren’t moving backwards, we’re exactly at the same spot as before the homestand. Does that warrant a firing? IF the team goes 1-5, then I think he’s done. Some pretty good teams coming through town during this homestand. It will be telling. 

 

 

[morrissex95]

Alright, so I'll bite. 

 

This team cannot trade Horvat. He is our captain, he was the first player picked in our rebuild. He's definitely a solid second line center, so when Pettersson enters his prime he'll be supplemented well. I don't see how trading from a position of weakness, center, in order to restock the cupboards again for 2-3 years down the road makes any sense. Could the team use a shakeup? Yes. Miller, Boeser, and Pearson are the only three viable forwards that could feasibly be traded. There's a lot of teams looking for wingers or looking to make a shakeup, but if I'm Vancouver's GM I'm looking at Kevin Fiala. If I'm dangling Pearson, I'm looking at Jake DeBrusk. Finally, for JT Miller I'd ship him off to the Rangers for a cornucopia for picks and prospects.

 

Either way, if there's an option to make a shakeup, I fire the Head Coach first and replace him with someone in-house for the remainder of the season. After that, we'll bring in a new manager and new coach and we'll have a better team. Klimovich and Woo might be ready to make it next year and our younger players will be a year older. 

[N4ZZY]

39 minutes ago, morrissex95 said:

Alright, so I'll bite. 

 

This team cannot trade Horvat. He is our captain, he was the first player picked in our rebuild. He's definitely a solid second line center, so when Pettersson enters his prime he'll be supplemented well. I don't see how trading from a position of weakness, center, in order to restock the cupboards again for 2-3 years down the road makes any sense. Could the team use a shakeup? Yes. Miller, Boeser, and Pearson are the only three viable forwards that could feasibly be traded. There's a lot of teams looking for wingers or looking to make a shakeup, but if I'm Vancouver's GM I'm looking at Kevin Fiala. If I'm dangling Pearson, I'm looking at Jake DeBrusk. Finally, for JT Miller I'd ship him off to the Rangers for a cornucopia for picks and prospects.

 

Either way, if there's an option to make a shakeup, I fire the Head Coach first and replace him with someone in-house for the remainder of the season. After that, we'll bring in a new manager and new coach and we'll have a better team. Klimovich and Woo might be ready to make it next year and our younger players will be a year older. 

You lost me when you mentioned that Pearson is one of three viable forwards that could feasibly be traded. 

 

 

[appleboy]

Teams need to have a cap structure. they need to know what they are willing to pay for each position. When you pay lower end players too much you hurt your ability to sign those up your lineup.

 

Poolman , Dickinson and Pearson.  Myers and OEL

[Coconuts]

9 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

We should be sellers this season, but we shouldn’t be selling everyone on the roster. 

 

Players I’d move: Miller and possibly Boeser.

Yeah, I wouldn't be looking at a teardown. 

 

I'd be looking to move Miller, possibly Boeser, and pending UFA's like Halak and Chiasson. 

 

I'd prefer to retain Motte, but that depends on what his ask is going to be going forward and what's being offered. 

 

9 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

You know with this two game winning streak, I think Green’s got a little bit of a runway. I think this 6 game homestand will be his last stand. If it goes poorly, then I don’t think he survives. I can see a split 3-3 homestand? Which does nothing for the team. We don’t move forward, and we aren’t moving backwards, we’re exactly at the same spot as before the homestand. Does that warrant a firing? IF the team goes 1-5, then I think he’s done. Some pretty good teams coming through town during this homestand. It will be telling. 

 

 

I think you're probably right, for whatever reason he's got more leeway than he should have. If we crash and burn and he's still here I won't be shocked though, it's not as if management's made great decisions since training camp. 

[SilentSam]

If Boudreau continues to lean on Lamikko to cover key opposing Center men..  and keeps answering to his task,.  I wonder if Horvat becomes a trade piece at the Draft.

Lamikko has been playing well and his last 2 assignments McDavid, and Ryan OReily were top notch.

Edited January 27, 2022 by SilentSam