[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks

[Mike Vanderhoek]

Obviously the Canucks will have interested parties inquiring about Bo Horvat. He has been a clutch goal scorer and is the team's Captain. You may be hearing an uptick in teams inquiring about several Canucks as the teams around the League know that Vancouver is actively exploring a change at the GM and coach position, could catch the team off guard in a desperation move. 

 

The team has a very decent core, if you end up trading off anyone right now it will be for pennies on the dollar.

[SilentSam]

3 minutes ago, Darius said:

not sure what you mean here Sam....you thinking that a new GM would be a bad thing coz he would scrap everything and start over?

I think this team is on the cusp of something really great..  but it’s one or two players from it.

we sorely miss protection physicality on Defence,  and a mean power forward on Offence.

 

If new Management comes in, this team will change far past those key points that need to be addressed..  First Impressions are a must with Management.

 

One of our present players might change this in a trade.

i personally like Millers style / leadership qualities…

but one of Boeser or Horvat might bring the return for a player to fill in the pot holes here.

[Patel Bure]

15 hours ago, hammertime said:

I don't think Bo is a guy you trade.

I would normally agree with this (Miller as well), but do you feel confident that both players will re-sign here on July 1st 2023?  
 

Also, given our current cap restraints, do you expect this team to make it past the first round over these next few years even with a new coach?  (Let alone qualify for the playoffs).   I’m not so sure.

[stawns]

4 minutes ago, Ohthehumanity said:

I don't know man. Like someone else said in this thread, Bo is a UFA in just over a year, and I don't see him wanting to stick around for yet another rebuild. If there is a RH young up and coming D man available for him, then I think you jump on it. Bo's value will be worth more to a team now, then next year being a pending UFA. Trouble is, those types of D are hard to pry away.

They're not going to rebuild.  They might make a coaching change and couple of strategic trades, but they're not rebuilding.  Many many teams go through this same phase as they get better and better.  

[justathought]

Honestly, I'd ask Bo. The guys going to be a great for a long time. He has heart and ability. He's a good roll model for any rookies coming into the league. I'd try to keep him, but let the decision be his.

 

I'd let Pettersson and Boeser know that they have to bring their game back to be traded.

I'd trade Miller.

Edited November 29, 2021 by justathought

[MeanSeanBean]

6 minutes ago, Westcoastcanucks777 said:

All seriousness guys..was it kinda weird to think about how Bo doesn’t PK ?…shouldn’t our main guys be a PK guy unless he’s a big offensive player? 

They were talking about this on the radio a couple days ago. Bo should have been groomed earlier in his career to pk. The management instead spent sizeable amounts of cap on Sutter and Beagle so Bo never really learned that skill. It's not necessarily to late, bit it would be much harder for him to learn now.

[Darius]

1 minute ago, SilentSam said:

I think this team is on the cusp of something really great..  but it’s one or two players from it.

we sorely miss protection physicality on Defence,  and a mean power forward on Offence.

 

If new Management comes in, this team will change far past those key points that need to be addressed..  First Impressions are a must with Management.

 

One of our present players might change this in a trade.

i personally like Millers style / leadership qualities…

but one of Boeser or Horvat might bring the return for a player to fill in the pot holes here.

ok fair enough.  We have had precedent for this in the past.  Linden gets traded for Bertuzzi + and changed the course of the team for years to come.  I guess trading one of the older core guys might have a similar effect.

 

I guess my perspective is we are in this hole after 8 years, team looks worst than it did when Benning took over, and its almost been a decade.  Im not sure if I want him around anymore making decisions that will affect the team years down the road...coz im really disappointed with the present state of the team. 

[Me_]

4 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

Obviously the Canucks will have interested parties inquiring about Bo Horvat. He has been a clutch goal scorer and is the team's Captain. You may be hearing an uptick in teams inquiring about several Canucks as the teams around the League know that Vancouver is actively exploring a change at the GM and coach position, could catch the team off guard in a desperation move. 

 

The team has a very decent core, if you end up trading off anyone right now it will be for pennies on the dollar.

Naw man. Vancouver isn’t Buffalo. It’s not the old Oilers. It’s not as drastic. 
 

If you’re gonna shake it to the core, it may fall to a core player.

 

If it’s Horvat or Miller, it is an admittedly hard choice. 
 

If Horvat is traded and Miller is given the captaincy, does he have an entante with the team that he stays beyond his contract?

 

If Horvat stays, and Miller is traded, how does it affect the rest of the team? If the players aren’t buying that the Captain sells… 

 

Not saying this is the case as I have no connection to the room. 
 

But if it’s a rift between Horvat and Miller, it’s a hard choice. 
 

I am however, wondering hard as to what is happening with Pettersson. Is it a delayed freshman-year syndrome? Is it a Covid related thing? Is it an utter disinterest as arrogantly displayed after Markstrom and Tanev weren’t re-signed?

Something happened last year and it’s still here. Gotta clean it up.

 

[SilentSam]

1 minute ago, Darius said:

ok fair enough.  We have had precedent for this in the past.  Linden gets traded for Bertuzzi + and changed the course of the team for years to come.  I guess trading one of the older core guys might have a similar effect.

 

I guess my perspective is we are in this hole after 8 years, team looks worst than it did when Benning took over, and its almost been a decade.  Im not sure if I want him around anymore making decisions that will affect the team years down the road...coz im really disappointed with the present state of the team. 

We have not had a true power forward since Bertuzzi ..  a game changing player.

That speaks volumes,.  If we look around at the teams that are succeeding, there is at least one of that type on every team.

[NMHockey]

31 minutes ago, mll said:

Doubt it.  They don't have the cap space + Guerin mocks the idea that he would target players because they are local.  

They will have a lot more cap space after this season and they can trade Fiala right now to make some. Guerin has..

 

Signed Alex Goligoski

(born in Grand Rapids, Minnesota)

 

Traded for Nick Bjugstad

(born in Minneapolis, Minnesota)

 

Claimed Rem Pitlick 

(born in Plymouth, Minnesota)

 

Signed Jon Lizotte

(born in Grand Forks, North Dakota which is 3 hours outside the state of Minnesota)

 

Drafted Jack Peart in Round 2 in 2021

(born in Grand Rapids, Minnesota)

 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by ZH96

[JM_]

31 minutes ago, ZH96 said:

No but his 14 points in 23 games, electric speed, grit, and versatility do!

well, you're pretty high on this guy. not sure he's got "grit" but I'd be fine with him on our bottom 6, but not at the cost of Horvat. 

[rekker]

1 hour ago, ZH96 said:

Sorry meant to say Kerfoot was stuck playing behind MacKinnon and Soderberg in Colorado. Even there in two seasons both were 40+ point years. What do you mean other years average? Kerfoot is a borderline Team Canada depth forward, a tenacious leader, a faceoff slayer, and has had similar shutdown matchups his entire career the way Bo has. We have zero high end D and C depth in our system so tell me what’s wrong with a 24 year old LHD (we need LD) who can also easily play the right side, has size, aggression, skating ability, and also a hometown center with speed, grit, and who’s currently out scoring Bo (point totals mean nothing until a forward is out scoring your captain wether he’s on an offensive East team or not. He plays 3rd line minutes there). And lastly tell me what’s wrong with getting another Center in the deal who was the captain of his QMJHL team and plays a similar style to Horvat, is only 20 years old with room to grow into

his frame, and has played well with Podkolzin on his line in the WJCs..? Not to mention the 1st round pick in the deal which can be used to nab a blue chip D or C.

Sorry man, just not seeing the Kerfoot love. I see him as a number three center and we won't agree on this. 

[Dazzle]

1 hour ago, Provost said:

Still blaming others for us being terrible.  Benning has had 8 seasons and we are worse than when we started and have a worse prospect pool.

Benning has managed to reverse mortgage the team's future while still being at the bottom of the league and that is fairly difficult to do.  We are in 28th spot with no prospects as good as Horvat in the pipeline.

NHL GMs and execs certainly disagree with you about Gillis.  The thousands of years of pro hockey knowledge clearly doesn't stack up against your musings as a random internet dude... 

https://www.nhl.com/canucks/news/canucks-gillis-named-general-manager-of-the-year/c-566844

 

I am glad you are using the term "reverse mortgage", but you aren't using it properly.

 

Reverse mortgage is when you basically pawn off a solid asset, like a residential property because you have nothing liquid on hand. That's not true in Benning's case right now. He has plenty of assets in reality. Gillis on the other hand...

 

What Gillis did with the team is a much more accurate example of what a reverse mortgage is, for your information.

 

I also think it's laughable that you reference Gillis being nominated for General Manager of the year.

 

Benning got similar praise too from GMs.

 

I'm thinking these awards mean nothing at all. Benning and Gillis have made plenty of mistakes which have contributed to their downfalls.

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Dazzle

[Provost]

2 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

I am glad you are using the term "reverse mortgage", but you aren't using it properly.

 

Reverse mortgage is when you basically pawn off a solid asset, like a residential property because you have nothing liquid on hand. That's not true in Benning's case right now. He has plenty of assets in reality. Gillis on the other hand...

 

What Gillis did with the team is a much more accurate example of what a reverse mortgage is, for your information.

Ummm... ya, Benning sold off solid future assets like a bunch of high picks and young prospects for "cash in hand" players to help now.

I think you actually need to go look up what a reverse mortgage is as you seem to be under some serious misapprehension...

It is taking your equity (future value when you eventually sell your house) for help now (money in your bank).

Trading away a bunch of futures for roster players to win now is literally the exact metaphor for what Benning has done. The difference between what Gillis did (actually get cash in hand in terms of wins) and what Benning has done (sell off equity for bad investments which resulted in him selling off more equity to pay off "the debts" to move bad contracts he signed)

For your information....

[Me_]

12 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

I am glad you are using the term "reverse mortgage", but you aren't using it properly.

 

Reverse mortgage is when you basically pawn off a solid asset, like a residential property because you have nothing liquid on hand. That's not true in Benning's case right now. He has plenty of assets in reality. Gillis on the other hand...

 

What Gillis did with the team is a much more accurate example of what a reverse mortgage is, for your information.

 

I also think it's laughable that you reference Gillis being nominated for General Manager of the year.

 

Benning got similar praise too from GMs.

 

I'm thinking these awards mean nothing at all. Benning and Gillis have made plenty of mistakes which have contributed to their downfalls.

 

Especially when the awards are not convenient for the support of your opinion…

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Me_

[stawns]

28 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

I think this team is on the cusp of something really great..  but it’s one or two players from it.

we sorely miss protection physicality on Defence,  and a mean power forward on Offence.

 

If new Management comes in, this team will change far past those key points that need to be addressed..  First Impressions are a must with Management.

 

One of our present players might change this in a trade.

i personally like Millers style / leadership qualities…

but one of Boeser or Horvat might bring the return for a player to fill in the pot holes here.

I do as well and many of the teams at or near the top went through this phase at some point as well.  They have enough good assets now that they can tinker and get the right personnel in place to push past this spot

[Dazzle]

4 minutes ago, Provost said:

Ummm... ya, Benning sold off solid future assets like a bunch of high picks and young prospects for "cash in hand" players to help now.

I think you actually need to go look up what a reverse mortgage is as you seem to be under some serious misapprehension...

It is taking your equity (future value when you eventually sell your house) for help now (money in your bank).

Trading away a bunch of futures for roster players to win now is literally the exact metaphor for what Benning has done. The difference between what Gillis did (actually get cash in hand in terms of wins) and what Benning has done (sell off equity for bad investments which resulted in him selling off more equity to pay off "the debts" to move bad contracts he signed)

For your information....

Not exactly. You still can live in the house that you reverse mortgaged. What you're evidently confusing is selling off assets versus the concept of borrowing against your own property.

 

The bank (or whoever the creditor is) has a strong hold on the mortgagee. They'll basically never lose money on the property.

 

None of this described Benning's situation. Lmfao.

 

Benning has assets - picks, players (Miller, and virtually every drafted player he has picked).

 

The only thing Gillis had were draft picks. He squandered his only asset (Schneider) and only got a draft pick out of it.

 

So umm, you might want to revisit your understanding of reverse mortgage before you actually do it, for your information.

[stawns]

9 minutes ago, Provost said:

Ummm... ya, Benning sold off solid future assets like a bunch of high picks and young prospects for "cash in hand" players to help now.

I think you actually need to go look up what a reverse mortgage is as you seem to be under some serious misapprehension...

It is taking your equity (future value when you eventually sell your house) for help now (money in your bank).

Trading away a bunch of futures for roster players to win now is literally the exact metaphor for what Benning has done. The difference between what Gillis did (actually get cash in hand in terms of wins) and what Benning has done (sell off equity for bad investments which resulted in him selling off more equity to pay off "the debts" to move bad contracts he signed)

For your information....

That's the phase they're in, they need "now" assets, not future assets.  He made smart moves in that regard and he's got assets in their prime that he can use to fill other holes.  Things aren't nearly as dire as the ledge sitters think they are.

 

They are in a growing pains phase and it should have been expected to come at some point.

 

[Dazzle]

3 minutes ago, stawns said:

That's the phase they're in, they need "now" assets, not future assets.  He made smart moves in that regard and he's got assets in their prime that he can use to fill other holes.  Things aren't nearly as dire as the ledge sitters think they are.

 

They are in a growing pains phase and it should have been expected to come at some point.

 

Imagine someone confusing the concept of reverse mortgage because it sounds good, but not really understanding what is considered an asset.

 

Then imagine him bragging about him working some six figure job doing union contracts.

 

Yikes.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Dazzle

[Provost]

1 minute ago, Dazzle said:

Not exactly. You still can live in the house that you reverse mortgaged. What you're evidently confusing is selling off assets versus the concept of borrowing against your own property.

 

The bank (or whoever the creditor is) has a strong hold on the mortgagee. They'll basically never lose money on the property.

 

None of this described Benning's situation. Lmfao.

 

Benning has assets - picks, players (Miller, and virtually every drafted player he has picked).

 

The only thing Gillis had were draft picks. He squandered his only asset (Schneider) and only got a draft pick out of it.

 

So umm, you might want to revisit your understanding of reverse mortgage before you actually do it, for your information.

You are literally going against your own point.

Gillis got to live in his house.. by you know having a successful team and had plenty of assets.  Benning inherited most of them.

Benning is being evicted because he lost all the equity and has nothing to show for it. 

You keep pretending Benning didn't spend a ton of draft picks for win now help just like Gillis did.  Such transparent nonsense.  Go back to whining about how Green is the only problem with the team and that we will become contenders once he is gone.