[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at San Jose Sharks | Dec. 16, 2021

[hammertime]

1 hour ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Some one. Motte is probably the most overrated player in modern Canucks history. 

I mean his 4 goals in the playoffs was pretty alright. I like the energy he brings. I also think its great that he is the ambassador for mental health taking the reigns from Bieksa  as well as respected enough to be one of our 2 NHLPA reps along with Bo. I feel like he is a real glue guy when it comes to our team and culture. I wouldn't go as far as to consider him a core piece. But I do consider him a great asset to our core and a contributor to our team identity. Much in the same way that Ryan Johnson, Brad Richardson were never core pieces but were a big part of the team while they were here with the respect of the boys in the room for the thankless work they did. 

Edited December 18, 2021 by hammertime

[MattJVD]

50 minutes ago, hammertime said:

I mean his 4 goals in the playoffs was pretty alright. I like the energy he brings. I also think its great that he is the ambassador for mental health taking the reigns from Bieksa  as well as respected enough to be one of our 2 NHLPA reps along with Bo. I feel like he is a real glue guy when it comes to our team and culture. I wouldn't go as far as to consider him a core piece. But I do consider him a great asset to our core and a contributor to our team identity. Much in the same way that Ryan Johnson, Brad Richardson were never core pieces but were a big part of the team while they were here with the respect of the boys in the room for the thankless work they did. 

Great PKer too, valuable role player.

[24K PureCool]

4 hours ago, hammertime said:

Kinda seems like there are players who would prefer not to put themselves and their families at risk and wait to continue the season when it is safe to do so.

 

"The players have to play; they don't get to make final decisions on certain things." 

 

I'm sorry not sorry Jim Rutherford the players should have the final say on if they are going to play or not. 

Pretty sure that decision is way above Jim's pay grade.

[Zazzini]

2 hours ago, reyezone said:

The vaccines don’t work

but natural immunity does

Thanks for keeping the virus going. Stupid &^@#ing comment. 

[4petesake]

9 minutes ago, 24K PureCool said:

Pretty sure that decision is way above Jim's pay grade.

FirstJim made the mistake of not listening to the room about Covid safety until JT spoke up. I doubt SecondJim makes the same mistake.

The decision itself is above his pay grade but the responsibility of taking the club’s concerns to the league lands squarely in his wheelhouse.

 

 

[24K PureCool]

1 minute ago, 4petesake said:

FirstJim made the mistake of not listening to the room about Covid safety until JT spoke up. I doubt SecondJim makes the same mistake.

The decision itself is above his pay grade but the responsibility of taking the club’s concerns to the league lands squarely in his wheelhouse.

 

 

Sure but chances are you aren't gonna here about JR bringing it up to the league. Just don't bring out the pitch forks if the games have to be played. 

[Angry Goose]

Win streaks are nice n’all but what does Jim Renning have planned

 

 

[Angry Goose]

Also annihilate the Leafs. Go canucks

[4petesake]

2 minutes ago, 24K PureCool said:

Sure but chances are you aren't gonna here about JR bringing it up to the league. Just don't bring out the pitch forks if the games have to be played. 

Agreed. I think it’s something the players and management will talk about and come to some agreement. Personally I think the league wants to shut down only as a last resort. Donny an Dahli said the league was worried about this because what if they shut down and numbers don’t improve? No way they can justify starting  back up in that case. IMO they will only shut down if there are more teams that can’t ice a lineup, or if guys who are already in Covid protocol are having more than mild symptoms.

[StanleyCupOneDay]

2 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

I really like him. He plays the bottom 6 role perfectly 

Like Jamie Lee Rattray on Team Canada. They bring energy and can flip a game with an offensive zone shift. Sometimes score important goals too. Valuable players.

[N4ZZY]

2 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

When you're dead you don't have to worry about a lot of things working....

Sorry. When you're dead, you don't have to worry about anything working.

 

you're dead. 

 

nothing works.

 

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, hammertime said:

I mean his 4 goals in the playoffs was pretty alright. I like the energy he brings. I also think its great that he is the ambassador for mental health taking the reigns from Bieksa  as well as respected enough to be one of our 2 NHLPA reps along with Bo. I feel like he is a real glue guy when it comes to our team and culture. I wouldn't go as far as to consider him a core piece. But I do consider him a great asset to our core and a contributor to our team identity. Much in the same way that Ryan Johnson, Brad Richardson were never core pieces but were a big part of the team while they were here with the respect of the boys in the room for the thankless work they did. 

Motte was one of three players who weren't overwhelmed by Vegas.   He actually could and did play against them, why he also got extra minutes some games (Green at least noticed that).  He led the playoffs in takeaways too...over guys like Stone.   Myers (and he wasn't 100%) and Demko were the others.   Edler was ok IF he could catch them, and infront of our net.    To me Motte is an elite fourth liner, like Hartman and Dickinson, and Sutter - you need those guys to win series and hockey games.   Guys that start most of their shifts in the D zone and end them in the o-zone are invaluable.  

[Boudrias]

44 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Motte was one of three players who weren't overwhelmed by Vegas.   He actually could and did play against them, why he also got extra minutes some games (Green at least noticed that).  He led the playoffs in takeaways too...over guys like Stone.   Myers (and he wasn't 100%) and Demko were the others.   Edler was ok IF he could catch them, and infront of our net.    To me Motte is an elite fourth liner, like Hartman and Dickinson, and Sutter - you need those guys to win series and hockey games.   Guys that start most of their shifts in the D zone and end them in the o-zone are invaluable.  

I have been wondering if Motte has a injury he is nursing. His TOI is running around 10 minutes. 

[IBatch]

On 12/17/2021 at 9:06 AM, Mustard Tiger said:

Motte plays a high paced game. Now under BB our entire team minus chiasson plays that game, Thus exposing motte as the 1m dollar guy he is. Nothing wrong with that though

I find we like to overvalue players in terms of on ice production vs wage. Dickinson is a good example. 2 and a half mill doesn't get you 20 goals and 40+ points anymore.
Same for poolman, 2.5M isn't going to get you this noticeable picture perfect dman. For a total of 7.9% of the cap i'd say the trio of dickinson / motte / poolman gives you quality depth and they are paid accordingly 

Wow what an intelligent, reasonable post.   JB says " we think Dickinson has untapped offense"   paraphrasing - well how much does he really have!  Is he the next Marchand?  Of course not.   What he is, is what he is - a multi positional bottom six player, who adds grit, hustle and effort to a team.   Watched him play Vegas, who should have beat Dallas but couldn't (Demko effect?), played another hot goalie who....i think was just waived as an aside.

 

I did notice Dickinson though.   One of the Dallas players who didn't wilt like both Tyler Toffoli, Pearson, Horvat, EP, QHs (except for 6 minutes one game) ...well pretty much our entire lineup.    Dallas wasn't the better team in that series really but won anyways.  Demko was actually given props because he was still in their heads lol.   Dickinson is a playoff type from what i've seen.   And Dallas will miss him.    At his pay grade he's the least of our worries.   Poolman isn't Tanev 2.0 so glad that's not floating around anymore - and why the heck would he be!    When we sign a new guy, the CDC loves the new toy, but doesn't seem to do their due diligence and look at the new toy enough.  Last summer i was absolutely stoked about Garland.   Kids a freaking treat watch video on him in the AHL and from ARI.   Their fans couldn't care less about losing OEL, probably the best Lidstrom comp since Lidstrom retired - sorry Heiskanen.   They were absolutely livid about losing Garland though.    Why i wasn't worried about adding him one bit - plus his story is about as close to Martin St. Louis as i've seen since well Martin St. Louis.   Watching him play live was my biggest thrill all year.   Best player on the ice despite Miller's power goal.    Can turn on a dime.   And heck want Green playing him on the first PP unit !  He should be.   Like Ronning and Burrows with some Martin St.Louis Theo Fluery all rolled up into one.    His play inspires ...   Best bang for the buck the team has right now.    Sure hope EP and BB take notice.  

[CanucksJay]

10 hours ago, Coconuts said:

Schmidt didn't walk for nothing, he was acquired for a third and then traded for a third. It's a wash. He also wanted out and was using his NTC to block trades he didn't want before eventually waiving it for Winnipeg. 

 

Markstrom was allowed to walk because the team chose Demko. The only way to have gotten something for him would have been to have traded him before the deadline, UFA rights have minimal value. They were chasing the playoffs for better or worse, moving Markstrom and Tanev would have been an admission of giving up and the weren't willing to do that. Demko hadn't shown what he had in the bubble at that point and they were actually stumbling down the stretch after Marky got hurt. If not for math and a canceled regular season we probably wouldn't have made it at all.

 

They went out an acquired Toffoli to replace an injured Boeser instead. Not even talking to Toffoli as a UFA was admittedly strange though. 

Yup thats exactly it. 

The idea of players not playing at their best due to roster decisions is asinine. 

Taffoli was a trade deadline acquisition where canucks were missing boeser but was trying to make a push to make the playoffs. 

In hindsight yes we should have signed him over JV in the offseason. 

Tanev was replaced by Schmidt where ppl were thrilled becuase it had looked like an upgrade on paper. It looked like a flop last year but I do wonder watching his success this year in Winnipeg whether BB would have gotten better performance from him and the team last year and made ppl forget about Tanev? Up until then, ppl were complaining that Tanev was an injury prone one dimensional player whondoesnt deserve a long term contract. It makes sense that Schmidt saw how he was being deployed bybTG and wanted to gtfo. Also weird to see Tanev healthy playing for a different coach and better strategy. Another black mark on TG? 

Markstrom was also not traded because we were trying to make the playoffs. Demko didnt emerge until Vegas series so it's quite stupid to say we should have gotten something for Markstrom which would have meant to sell before playoffs. 

In hindsight, i am Happy to have kept Demko at his age and contract over Markstrom. 

Yes maybe we could have gotten a late pick for Markstrom's rights but we're really splitting hairs

 

Anyway, the notion of these 3 players leaving being the reason for an unhappy locker room which then resulted in giving up on the season last year and this year is laughable.

If that's the case, none of these guys should be playing pro hockey. 

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by CanucksJay

[IBatch]

48 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Yup thats exactly it. 

The idea of players not playing at their best due to roster decisions is asinine. 

Taffoli was a trade deadline acquisition where canucks were missing boeser but was trying to make a push to make the playoffs. 

In hindsight yes we should have signed him over JV in the offseason. 

Tanev was replaced by Schmidt where ppl were thrilled becuase it had looked like an upgrade on paper. It looked like a flop last year but I do wonder watching his success this year in Winnipeg whether BB would have gotten better performance from him and the team last year and made ppl forget about Tanev? Up until then, ppl were complaining that Tanev was an injury prone one dimensional player whondoesnt deserve a long term contract. It makes sense that Schmidt saw how he was being deployed bybTG and wanted to gtfo. Also weird to see Tanev healthy playing for a different coach and better strategy. Another black mark on TG? 

Markstrom was also not traded because we were trying to make the playoffs. Demko didnt emerge until Vegas series so it's quite stupid to say we should have gotten something for Markstrom which would have meant to sell before playoffs. 

In hindsight, i am Happy to have kept Demko at his age and contract over Markstrom. 

Yes maybe we could have gotten a late pick for Markstrom's rights but we're really splitting hairs

 

Anyway, the notion of these 3 players leaving being the reason for an unhappy locker room which then resulted in giving up on the season last year and this year is laughable.

If that's the case, none of these guys should be playing pro hockey. 

 

 

 

Wow don't be too sane.   

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Boudrias said:

I have been wondering if Motte has a injury he is nursing. His TOI is running around 10 minutes. 

On a good team that's about where his minutes should be.  8 out of the last 9 games we've won.    Maybe that's part of it too? 

[13231]

14 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

So what happened this year then? 

Was the damage already done? 

Only thing to do was replace JB and TG before season started or season was lost? Where were you during training camp then? 

Nothing to do with coaching strategies or deployment right? 

 

If the NHL doesnt call off the game tomorrow, will the guys turn on JR and Smyl too? They'll just stop trying? 

 

Anybody can see it wasnt effort that was the issue. It was systems and coaching but sure, keep insisting that wasnt the case... 

BB didnt need to change anything. Problem was solved when we fired Benning... 

 

Let's have BB revert back to green's lines and have petterson playing with Dickinson and Dowling or whoever

Let's park Podz on the bench in the 3rd

Lets park Chiasson as net front on pp1 and have the unit pass it around the entire time. 

Let's go back into passive box on the pk with our grinders. 

Let's play that high event hockey strategy and stay in zone defence in a shell and wait for a turnover and then transition by dump and chase. 

 

Damn this is hilarious. Yeah it wasn't coaching.... 

 

Man nothing makes me cringe harder than those people who say "GreEn iS a gOod CoAcH" and @canuck73_3 insisting that he was is just plain delusion at this point. It's shocking that there are still people out there defending Green's preposterous coaching. I don't know how anyone can objectively refute any of the points you made here. And this doesn't even cover all of Green's incompetence. 

[canuck73_3]

3 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

Yup thats exactly it. 

The idea of players not playing at their best due to roster decisions is asinine. 

Taffoli was a trade deadline acquisition where canucks were missing boeser but was trying to make a push to make the playoffs. 

In hindsight yes we should have signed him over JV in the offseason. 

Tanev was replaced by Schmidt where ppl were thrilled becuase it had looked like an upgrade on paper. It looked like a flop last year but I do wonder watching his success this year in Winnipeg whether BB would have gotten better performance from him and the team last year and made ppl forget about Tanev? Up until then, ppl were complaining that Tanev was an injury prone one dimensional player whondoesnt deserve a long term contract. It makes sense that Schmidt saw how he was being deployed bybTG and wanted to gtfo. Also weird to see Tanev healthy playing for a different coach and better strategy. Another black mark on TG? 

Markstrom was also not traded because we were trying to make the playoffs. Demko didnt emerge until Vegas series so it's quite stupid to say we should have gotten something for Markstrom which would have meant to sell before playoffs. 

In hindsight, i am Happy to have kept Demko at his age and contract over Markstrom. 

Yes maybe we could have gotten a late pick for Markstrom's rights but we're really splitting hairs

 

Anyway, the notion of these 3 players leaving being the reason for an unhappy locker room which then resulted in giving up on the season last year and this year is laughable.

If that's the case, none of these guys should be playing pro hockey. 

 

 

 

These are pro hockey players that want to win a cup, it is delusional to think roster moves don’t affect team morale. 

[canuck73_3]

6 hours ago, 13231 said:

Man nothing makes me cringe harder than those people who say "GreEn iS a gOod CoAcH" and @canuck73_3 insisting that he was is just plain delusion at this point. It's shocking that there are still people out there defending Green's preposterous coaching. I don't know how anyone can objectively refute any of the points you made here. And this doesn't even cover all of Green's incompetence. 

Just because he was no longer a fit here doesn’t make him an awful coach, which is all I have said he is a good coach you don’t get a job in the NHL as a head coach by not being a good coach. To say otherwise is truly delusional. Is he a great coach? Absolutely not, he is a good coach who was not and may never have been a good fit with the rosters we had though. 

Edited December 18, 2021 by canuck73_3