[Report] Canucks hire Rachel Doerrie in an analytics role

[Dazzle]

6 hours ago, Jester13 said:

When other female candidates were being (still are?) considered for these high up positions, no one questioned any of the names. Why? Because they all have much more impressive resumes than the 25yo with contentious tweets that read like they are, well, from a 25yo who publicly blasted the team she just got hired for. 

 

Anyhoogan, meh, I'm going golfing. Byyeeeee

This is exactly it. People can spin this and say it's a win for women. Sure, she is a woman, but is she really the best candidate? Genuinely? I just don't believe it. I am sure there are lots of women who are math geeks out there.

[Dazzle]

6 hours ago, spook007 said:

 

Provost, please kindly tell me, if my post was in any way misogynistic?

I'm struggling to follow this new wave of watching, what you say, and to whom you say it...

The reason folks say they don't care if its a woman or not, is because it is unusual to see a female in this position in an NHL team. 
Can't see anything sexiest what so ever in that... 

 

If any of the female fans on the these pages think my post was in any way degrading towards females, please enlighten me...

 

There are some many great fans here on CDC and I'd hate to think I was in any way degrading towards any of them. 

Provost's definition of misogynistic covers anyone who doesn't share HIS viewpoint (misguided) of what it means to be equal. I'm afraid that he's calling people out preemptively, just in case he gets called misogynistic for questioning a person's qualifications (notice, I said person, not gender).

 

I just don't think this was a great hire, in all honesty, but what do I know? I would've liked to see a woman, particular one who has been involved in hockey at a high level, whose credentials speak louder than their tweets.

 

I honestly think if we hired Jfresh (a man), I think I wouldn't have liked the hire either.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Dazzle

[DrJockitch]

59 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

This is exactly it. People can spin this and say it's a win for women. Sure, she is a woman, but is she really the best candidate? Genuinely? I just don't believe it. I am sure there are lots of women who are math geeks out there.

She has a heck of a CV for a 25 year old hired to a low/mid level hockey ops position.
Apparently had interest from a number of teams. 
Out of curiosity what do you think is lacking from her cv, testicles?

I think I will trust a hockey lifer with multiple Stanley cups as qualified to hire who he thinks is appropriate. 

[spook007]

49 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

I think a lot of the problem has been that correct innocuous statements like “I just want us to hire the most qualified” have become dog whistles like “all lives matter.”  They are used to do enforce a structure that is prejudiced. 
When there has been historical bias those who have been held down won’t have an appropriate resume or experience because the system is designed for them not to get it. Ultimately it does take someone to be bold and hire people from different backgrounds to break the impasse. 
All that being said, Rachel has the resume and is more than qualified for the low/mid level hockey ops job she has been hired for. 
Hope she is brilliant and brings a lot to the Canucks. 

Cheers. 
I hope so too, just like I hope every single one of the new management team and front office staff can help Canucks achieve the goal of being a successful hockey club. 
 

 

[Dazzle]

18 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

She has a heck of a CV for a 25 year old hired to a low/mid level hockey ops position.
Apparently had interest from a number of teams. 
Out of curiosity what do you think is lacking from her cv, testicles?

I think I will trust a hockey lifer with multiple Stanley cups as qualified to hire who he thinks is appropriate. 

For me, it was never about body features, and the problem with you bringing this is it antagonizes the discussion. Does age have to be a factor in hiring a qualified candidate? Did she have to be under 30 years old? Was that a requirement?

 

All I was wondering (and I'm free to wonder) is if there was someone better than her (experience wise).

But you're right. She is a very outspoken woman who has been involved in hockey at some point or another. I will reserve my judgement in the meantime until she actually prove herself. I don't wish ill on her at all. She is now employed by the Canucks, and I hope she and the Canucks can develop a good relationship with each other, which can then usher in more women for hockey, as well as other sports.

 

But apparently questioning qualifications is somehow sexist. I'll make this very clear: I am all for hiring women. We need way more diversity than just the so-called typical 'white male'. Maybe some Asians, hey? or African-Canadians?

 

I think in MLB, an Asian lady was hired as GM.

 

https://time.com/5943601/kim-ng-first-female-gm-miami-marlins/

 

Some people will fondly remember the 1960s as a civil rights movement. What is lost in that fond memory was that white women were at the forefront of these movements, but black women were pretty much left out from any of the benefits that white women had. Today, we have seemingly shifted the conversation from YAY, not a white male to YAY, a white woman. Similarly, the benefits are being 'trickled down'.

 

The progression is going in the right direction, but we still see a severe lack of diversity for non-white people. I really couldn't care less who gets hired, so long as they're qualified, and are given a chance to showcase themselves. If Doerrie can do this, I will be happy.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Dazzle

[spook007]

1 hour ago, Dazzle said:

Provost's definition of misogynistic covers anyone who doesn't share HIS viewpoint (misguided) of what it means to be equal. I'm afraid that he's calling people out preemptively, just in case he gets called misogynistic for questioning a person's qualifications (notice, I said person, not gender).

 

I just don't think this was a great hire, in all honesty, but what do I know? I would've liked to see a woman, particular one who has been involved in hockey at a high level, whose credentials speak louder than their tweets.

 

I honestly think if we hired Jfresh (a man), I think I wouldn't have liked the hire either.

Cheers Dazzle
I don't get too involved into her CV or what she can/can not... 

I leave that to the far smarter people than me... 

I just want the persons in any position that can help us to the promised land. If its a she, a he or a fish it totally irrelevant to me. 
 

[Goal:thecup]

It is extremely difficult for non-white-non-males (??) not to dominate professional hockey and pro hockey management when entry to the league for players comes from predominantly white boys who grow into coaches, etc, and when almost all existing positions in management are filled by white males.

 

Rachel has achieved a step up into this system, I am sure she is very qualified and vetted by JR & Co, and she's got a sense of humour (most important) and I hope we hear more of it.

 

It is not so much this particular hire that is important imo, as working towards more opportunities for everyone equally. 

[MikeyD]

On 1/20/2022 at 3:35 PM, 24K PureCool said:

Damn quite a career for a 25 year old. 

Must mean all of those places got rid of her quick! Problematic!!! Jk

[Tom Sestito]

@DazzleYou legitimately spent like a decade acting as if Jim Benning was a competent man no one can take you seriously lol

[Dazzle]

1 minute ago, Tom Sestito said:

@DazzleYou legitimately spent like a decade acting as if Jim Benning was a competent man no one can take you seriously lol

?

[N4ZZY]

So when does Rachel start? 

 

[AV.]

7 hours ago, Tom Sestito said:

@DazzleYou legitimately spent like a decade acting as if Jim Benning was a competent man no one can take you seriously lol

What's the most telling thing about the comments made from him and his pals is how painfully unaware of how sexist they're being when they say things like "well, I'd hire Botterill, so this doesn't have anything to do with gender".  It's the gendered equivalent of "I can't be racist; I have friends from __ race"

But here's the kicker:  By their own terrible standards and prerequisites, Rachel Doerrie is actually more qualified for her role than Jennifer Botterill (currently) is for any role, seeing as Doerrie has worked in a similar position in the past and has worked for multiple hockey organizations, whereas Jennifer Botterill has not yet worked with any organizations in any hockey ops roles.  So, really, this has never been about qualifications or "best fit" for these bitter bros, and has a lot to do with Doerrie personally, seeing as she previously criticized this team, and in particular, one individual that thankfully isn't working with the team any more.  They can't stand to see somebody (a woman, at that) who criticized the team be hired for a job, and they despise it so much, they've gone to the lengths of creating false narratives that she's some sort of unprofessional person on social media, when in reality, the hockey world has had nothing but great things to say about her.  Talk about sad, fragile men 

They can try to hide behind blanket statements stating that they hope Doerrie does well, but if they genuinely felt that way, they wouldn't feel the need to caution this hire like they have.

[Angry Goose]

On 1/24/2022 at 6:46 AM, AV. said:

What's the most telling thing about the comments made from him and his pals is how painfully unaware of how sexist they're being when they say things like "well, I'd hire Botterill, so this doesn't have anything to do with gender".  It's the gendered equivalent of "I can't be racist; I have friends from __ race"

But here's the kicker:  By their own terrible standards and prerequisites, Rachel Doerrie is actually more qualified for her role than Jennifer Botterill (currently) is for any role, seeing as Doerrie has worked in a similar position in the past and has worked for multiple hockey organizations, whereas Jennifer Botterill has not yet worked with any organizations in any hockey ops roles.  So, really, this has never been about qualifications or "best fit" for these bitter bros, and has a lot to do with Doerrie personally, seeing as she previously criticized this team, and in particular, one individual that thankfully isn't working with the team any more.  They can't stand to see somebody (a woman, at that) who criticized the team be hired for a job, and they despise it so much, they've gone to the lengths of creating false narratives that she's some sort of unprofessional person on social media, when in reality, the hockey world has had nothing but great things to say about her.  Talk about sad, fragile men 

They can try to hide behind blanket statements stating that they hope Doerrie does well, but if they genuinely felt that way, they wouldn't feel the need to caution this hire like they have.

You know, people can find the tone/language of RD’s particular messaging distasteful without it being “sexist”.  

 

Further, someone can be completely fine with the general point of the criticism, but again find certain tone/language of that criticism distasteful separate from the criticism itself.  

 

Also, you can still support someone but take issue with past behaviour.  Supporting someone doesnt have to go unqualified for it to be supportive.

 

Implying such concerns constitute intentionally  “creating false narratives” is a leap in reasoning, unless youre a mind reader of course.  

 

Hopefully this clears up some unfair accusations going on in this forum.

 

 

[AV.]

32 minutes ago, Angry Goose said:

You know, people can find the tone/language of RD’s particular messaging distasteful without it being “sexist”.  

 

Further, someone can be completely fine with the general point of the criticism, but again find certain tone/language of that criticism distasteful separate from the criticism itself.  

 

Also, you can still support someone but take issue with past behaviour.  Supporting someone doesnt have to go unqualified for it to be supportive.

 

Implying such concerns constitute intentionally  “creating false narratives” is a leap in reasoning, unless youre a mind reader of course.  

 

Hopefully this clears up some unfair accusations going on in this forum.

 

 

Sure, but understand that "people" in this context are a very small minority upset by something that really doesn't exist.

Evidently, if there were truly inherent behavioural or personality issues, I'm sure most of the hockey world would have raised this/taken notice.  More importantly, many teams trying to hire her would have viewed this as a red-flag.

One person doesn't have multiple offers from NHL teams and thousands of positive, well wishes and co-signs if they're truly a bad hire.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, AV. said:

Sure, but understand that "people" in this context are a very small minority upset by something that really doesn't exist.

Evidently, if there were truly inherent behavioural or personality issues, I'm sure most of the hockey world would have raised this/taken notice.  More importantly, many teams trying to hire her would have viewed this as a red-flag.

One person doesn't have multiple offers from NHL teams and thousands of positive, well wishes and co-signs if they're truly a bad hire.

Luckily she won't be the Canucks PR person.  I'm fine with her being a mid-level analyst, but we need to hire someone much more qualified to lead our analytics department.  

 

As I've mentioned before, we're competing against teams that have people with PhDs and a decade or two of experience in high level research.  Someone mentioned that we still have Aidan Fox and I'm not really familiar with his qualifications but I'm all ears if someone knows what they are. 

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

12 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

Luckily she won't be the Canucks PR person.  I'm fine with her being a mid-level analyst, but we need to hire someone much more qualified to lead our analytics department.  

 

As I've mentioned before, we're competing against teams that have people with PhDs and a decade or two of experience in high level research.  Someone mentioned that we still have Aidan Fox and I'm not really familiar with his qualifications but I'm all ears if someone knows what they are. 

The Canucks have Aidan Fox, Ryan Biech, and Miles Hoaken, in their analytics department, and now Rachel Doerrie.

 

Fox has been with the team for roughly the past six seasons IIRC. He was promoted to senior analyst in 2019. He has a Bachelor of Commerce degree from McGill.

 

Biech most people are familiar with from his time at CanucksArmy and The Athletic. Before that, he worked in retail management, customer service, workforce data analysis, and communications/social media for Telus. I don’t believe he has any formal higher education. Biech has been with the Canucks since 2019 as “video analyst, hockey analytics.”

 

Hoaken is a recent hire. He has a Bachelor’s degree from Queen’s in commerce/business. Did a couple internships with the Canucks in their analytics department. Was an assistant coach and the director of analytics for Queen’s University. Founded an analytics department at his high school. Did social media for the Don Mills Flyers (AAA). He’s really young (21-ish, I think) but obviously has been working pretty hard to get where he is.

 

So, yeah, definitely no PhDs in Vancouver’s analytics department. Or even anyone with any really advanced training in mathematics/statistics.

Rachel Doerrie quite arguably has the most impressive CV, and on paper, would look like a possible department head (at least eventually, and with the current staff).
 

But Aidan Fox has seniority, the “senior analyst” title, and from all accounts, the team is very happy with his work. I’ve only really heard good things about the staff.
 

I do, however, think that they could use another egghead or two, with some impressive letters behind their names, as well as a much larger staff in general, if the Canucks really want to build a department that’s cutting edge, developing in-house proprietary analytics, and advancing knowledge in the field, rather than just “keeping up” with data analytics in the NHL.

Edited January 27, 2022 by SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME
Typo/autocorrect

[-DLC-]

 

[-Vintage Canuck-]

Inside the Mind of Rachel Doerrie:

 

At first glance into her home office, one wouldn't suspect that a National Hockey League team just hired 25-year-old Rachel Doerrie. A game-worn Bastian Schweinsteiger jersey from his Major League Soccer All-Star game hangs on the wall behind her. The game ball that Jozy Altidore scored Toronto FC's 2017 championship-winning goal is on the opposite side of the room. She is even donning a Soccer Canada track jacket.

 

Although soccer is a heavy influence in the Toronto native's roots, Rachel's background in hockey and her ability to synthesize a deep understanding of the game with data-driven analysis is what made her a highly coveted hire.  

 

When Jim Rutherford set out to rebuild the Vancouver Canucks' front office, he targeted highly intelligent and hardworking people with diverse backgrounds in how they made their way into hockey. Rachel's path to the Canucks is an impressive one.

 

She was a Video Coach for the Sudbury Wolves in the OHL and for Hockey Canada, a writer for The Athletic, an Analyst for the New Jersey Devils hockey operations department, and recently completed her master's of science in sport science and analytics at York University. She wrote her thesis while serving as the Director of Advanced Performance for York's varsity hockey teams and working as a Senior Analyst for the Bank of Montreal. She joins the Canucks and their growing analytics department.

 

She recently joined me to chat about how soccer fandom has influenced her hockey philosophy, the role of analytics in player development, and her advocacy of mental health.  

 

Interview edited for clarity and length. 

 

What sparked your passion for analytics and hockey?

 

I was really good at math as a child, and I used to be an elite gymnast. So, hockey and soccer were my escapes from that.

 

I am German, so soccer is very big in my family, but hockey was just kind of something that I would watch as a break and was always a source of fun, whether it was playing mini sticks and such. Then once gymnastics stopped, I really dove in, and I said, "Okay, I'm going to combine math and hockey."

 

The year I graduated grade 12, the Corsi wars happened on Twitter, and I saw a niche that I could fill. I thought, "There are too many people that are too extreme on one side and too many people that are too extreme on the opposite. I need to be the middle person. I need to be part of the solution to this."

So that's what got me into analytics, I identified a niche or a void that existed, and that, to a degree, I think still exists. 

 

That void you talk about and being the voice of middle ground, how have you learned to communicate your findings to different stakeholders?

 

One of the essential things you need to do right off the hop is to ask the person that you're going to be communicating to what they're looking for ultimately. Because you need to understand what will be helpful for them in their decision-making process. I can do all the work that I want, but if it's not going to be useful, we're wasting everybody's time. I think that's the number one thing in terms of being a good communicator. 

 

I just finished working at the bank of Montreal before taking this job in analytics, and it's a lot harder to explain banking analytics to the stakeholders and shareholders than it is to explain hockey analytics to a coach or a GM. So, working at the bank and all of the minutiae that needed to be communicated with an absolute obsession with accuracy really helped me because there is no other option. You have to communicate that information, it's way too important.

 

How do you view analytics as part of the decision-making process?

 

Basically, how I look at it is analytics are a tool. So, if you're making a salad, if you only have lettuce and nothing else, that's not a salad, that's lettuce. But if you just drink the dressing, you're insane. You need to have the right mix of everything. You need to have lettuce. You need to have dressing. You need to have garnish. 

 

All of that stuff is what you use to build a team. Your lettuce can be your scouting. Your analytics can be your salad dressing. You have mental performance etc. Everything has a place. You just need the right amount of everything, or your salad is awful in the same way that if you don't have the right amount of everything for a hockey team, the same principle is there.

 

So how is Jim Rutherford's salad looking?

 

I think it looks very promising. As an organization, we're really trending in the right direction with the staff we're building, and I'm just thrilled to be a small part of it.

Alphonso Davies had part of his origin story here in Vancouver. As a giant Bayern Munich fan, how happy are you that he is on your side of the pitch?

To me, Davies is, if not the best left-back in the world, one of them. I'm thrilled that Vancouver got to see him play as a young player. I wouldn't want to be playing against him, so I'm happy I don't have to deal with that because Bayern is not selling!

 

Bayern's motto is Mia San Mia, and as a fan, could you explain what that means? Do you see any similarities in what the Canucks are trying to build from your meetings with Jim Rutherford?

 

I actually have that tattooed. Mia San Mia, as a direct translation, is "We Are We." But as a German proverb, Mia San Mia is, "We are who we are." Essentially, this is who we are. We're proud of it. We work together. We are together, and everything is done together. Whether we win together or we lose together, we are together. It's something that my grandfather identified with. It's something I identify with. 

 

I think they're a model organization when it comes to how they do things in the front office, and obviously, there's no salary cap, but you don't achieve that level of success by accident. That's one of the things when I say that Jim convinced me to be a part of the Canucks. I look at the culture built at Bayern, and I see a lot of that here. 

 

My first few days with the Canucks were nothing but collaborative. It's been nothing but we are in this together. You could absolutely start to apply it with what we have going on here. It really does feel like everyone goes, "It doesn't matter what we're doing, we're doing it together." At the end of the day, you might not say Mia San Mia, but you'd say we're all Canucks at this point.

 

Soccer has been at the forefront in sports analytics with expected goals and Soccernomics. How important is it for you to keep up with other sports and industries to see how they leverage analytics to gain a competitive advantage?

 

Extremely. I'm a big believer in cross-sport tactics and analytics. I have done a lot of work in soccer, and I've applied a lot of those lessons and experiences to my hockey stuff at York University.

 

I think there are many opportunities there, mainly because soccer and hockey are similar in that they're flow games. It's not like football or baseball where it's stop and go, stop and go. So, I think a lot can be borrowed from soccer into how we do things. I wonder how we could use something like expected assists in soccer or build-up play. I wonder how player and puck tracking data can be applied in hockey. I have an idea; I just can't say it. 

 

Getting into your time at York University, what made you want to go back to school and what was your thesis about?

 

I decided I wanted to go to the best sports science school in the country because I was going to do a master's of science to study analytics and talent identification, drafting. There's also not many people with master's in analytics degrees, and I thought that could be a separator for me. I value education very highly, so anytime you can further your education, you should.

 

Talking about drafting and analytics, the teams setting themselves up for sustained success do an excellent job at managing draft pick capital, mining value, and creating a wealth of assets out of it. Analytics is an obvious tool to enhance the drafting and scouting process. Thanks to your time at York, do you have a unique perspective on how analytics fit into player development once the prospect comes into the system?

 

I was head in charge of the development of athletes on ice at York. Let's say we're working with a forward on scoring chances and different ways to create them. I'll go on the ice with them, and I'll have drills catered to that specific player's style of play. But because I've tracked a ton of events, it's very easy for me to go, "Okay, you're scoring chances were X in September, and now we've done two months of work, and they've improved by X amount since." 

 

Because I have the data, I can see if they are getting better. And if they're not, it's much easier to quantify the process. That way, you can see if you need to change things. I'm a big believer that if you're trying to develop a certain skill set within a player, there are absolutely things available that you can use to track that.

 

You were a big advocate for mental health during your time with the Devils. How has that experience shaped how you approach your career?

 

Starting that game in New Jersey (Mental Health Awareness Night) meant a lot to me because we're sitting there and talking about how important mental health is, and we're not doing anything about it. And to me, you cannot, as an organization, host the Hockey Talks game if you do not also empower your employees to go and get help when they need it. 

 

It's less about what you're doing performatively and more about what you're doing within the organization. I'm very confident that Vancouver has its employees' mental health as a priority. 

 

Aside from the hockey, what are you most looking forward to about coming to Vancouver?

 

My childhood best friend lives in Vancouver, and we have not lived in the same city for 15 years now. So, to me, outside of hockey, outside of the Canucks, which is obviously the most exciting part of this, it's the chance to reconnect with some important relationships in my life. 

 

I think from a Vancouver perspective. I'm a big skier, so Whistler is very attractive to me. I'm also going to have to get to a couple of White Caps games, especially when Toronto's in town. 

 

https://www.nhl.com/canucks/news/vancouver-canucks-rachel-doerrie/c-330478610

[tas]

On 1/29/2022 at 6:57 PM, -DLC- said:

 

leafs colours ... nice touch ...

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, tas said:

leafs colours ... nice touch ...

 

Ingredients: 5 straight first round losses or 1 playoff round win in the last 20 years 

 

Add a loss to a zamboni driver to up the bitterness to taste.