[PGT] Edmonton Oilers at Vancouver Canucks | Jan. 25, 2022

[VanCan2023]

1 minute ago, Darius said:

I don’t think he’s missed a game with Calgary. If he has its very few.  I think Greens teams sat back and were far too passive.  If you are a shot blocking shutdown d man who Plays in such a context I bet the chances of injury are higher…  not to mention the teams Tanev played on here were down right bad during some years… chasing the play more often than not was prob hard on his body lol 

 

would have been interesting to see him play under Bruce 

Van has never had a noris defenceman. 

However we have won presidency trophies. 

Don't get me wrong I'd never turn down a norris calibre dman on the club, but it's not necessary or essential to win. 

I don't care who our new flavor of the month management is, but they better recognize we will be exposed and embarrassed in Rd 1 "if they make the playoffs" without a much more aligned and quite frankly component defence core. 

Its not a popular thing, but moving JT to the right team now may give us one or two of those FUTURE dmen that get you to the cup. 

 

[Coconuts]

9 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

The culture of the organization under Benning was horrible. Players reflected that, looking back now. Change was inevitable and was necessary, to clear that culture, and implement a new one under JR, which is unfolding before our eyes. 

 

I’ll be more intrigued to hear and see what conversations take place with the players, to inspire them that this current management team will do everything in their power to make this club the club it needs to be to be a contending organization from top to bottom. 

 

With that being said. I wonder who else JR is going to bring in to work with Allvin, and Emilie? 

 

It was definitely time for change, but once could argue it wasn't just under Benning. Our coaching staff over the years have contributed to that as well. Though to his credit, I do think Desjardins tried his best with what were admittedly mediocre Canucks rosters. Green got stale, and likely wasn't anything special to begin with. 

 

Hard to say, what we see over the next couple months could take us in a lot of different directions. But cleaning out management was certainly a good start. 

 

Wouldn't be surprised to see one or two of the runners up for the GM's be brought in as AGM's. Surely it'd be higher up than what some of them are currently doing. If they want to be GM someday being an AGM ain't a bad way to climb the ladder. 

 

1 minute ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Weird thing is, in his last season as a Canuck, he also didn’t miss a single game.  Granted part of that might be that the season was shortened (69 games only).

Wasn't he hurt in the last game he played that season or am I remembering things wrong? But yes, technically that's the only season he didn't miss a game. 

[Darius]

1 minute ago, Coconuts said:

And I'm glad to hear that, if he'd had that sort of good fortune in Vancouver he'd probably still be a Canuck. 

 

But he had a rough go of it with injuries here, hence the concerns about his durability. I certainly wouldn't have guessed he'd be this healthy going forward. 

You make a fair and honest point.  I’m looking at Tanev in retrospect.  When he went to UFA his durability was questionable.  It’s easy for me to say now… it could have been the system that caused a lot of injuries for him.  At the time I wasn’t sure.

 

i think my biggest gripe in all of this is the org allowed three players that were pillars of the team for years, and were developed  by the team, basically walk for nothing.  The salt in the wound is that two went to a big rival where they are key contributors.

 

 would a gm with better foresight have been able to get something for these players sometime sooner in their contract lifecycle?
 

This is where we bring in a guy like Miller into the conversation. Do we risk having him walk too… ( I think I know your answer..) 

[N4ZZY]

4 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

It was definitely time for change, but once could argue it wasn't just under Benning. Our coaching staff over the years have contributed to that as well. Though to his credit, I do think Desjardins tried his best with what were admittedly mediocre Canucks rosters. Green got stale, and likely wasn't anything special to begin with. 

 

Hard to say, what we see over the next couple months could take us in a lot of different directions. But cleaning out management was certainly a good start. 

 

Wouldn't be surprised to see one or two of the runners up for the GM's be brought in as AGM's. Surely it'd be higher up than what some of them are currently doing. If they want to be GM someday being an AGM ain't a bad way to climb the ladder. 

 

Wasn't he hurt in the last game he played that season or am I remembering things wrong? But yes, technically that's the only season he didn't miss a game. 

Well, some of those runner ups to be GM of the Canucks are currently AGM’s with their current club. Why would they make a lateral move? 

 

[Coconuts]

19 minutes ago, Darius said:

You make a fair and honest point.  I’m looking at Tanev in retrospect.  When he went to UFA his durability was questionable.  It’s easy for me to say now… it could have been the system that caused a lot of injuries for him.  At the time I wasn’t sure.

 

i think my biggest gripe in all of this is the org allowed three players that were pillars of the team for years, and were developed  by the team, basically walk for nothing.  The salt in the wound is that two went to a big rival where they are key contributors.

 

 would a gm with better foresight have been able to get something for these players sometime sooner in their contract lifecycle?
 

This is where we bring in a guy like Miller into the conversation. Do we risk having him walk too… ( I think I know your answer..) 

Yeah, at the time I definitely had concerns about his durability. It was also a longer contract than I'd have liked. I honestly figured he'd continued to miss time in Calgary and that it'd be more of the same.

 

This isn't to say I don't respect him as a player, or that I didn't enjoy having him here. We were better with him in the line up, same deal we had with Salo. But even Salo managed six seasons of 60+ games as a Canuck, with three of those seasons being 70 or more. 

 

As for the not getting assets for them, I get that. But on the flip side, do you flip those assets while you're in the playoff race? That's where we're at now. Except we're further out than we were then if I'm not mistaken. This is the argument I've seen folks use regarding Miller, doesn't hold a lot of weight with me. Benning was hellbent on getting us to playoffs, but none of them teams he assembled resembled a contender. Even now, with the roster we currently have, his best team, we were probably just a team in the mix at the beginning of the season. To make the playoffs, not contend. 

 

I'd move Miller, I'm not going to wade it right now because it's late but I've been on the trade Miller train for months now. Wouldn't hesitate at all. I'm fully on board with trading Miller despite the feathers it ruffles. I do not believe in this roster as currently structured, it's got holes and several question marks. I'd build around the young core, move Miller and you've still got plenty of good pieces to build around. I don't see any reason why we couldn't be competitive next season without him, it's not as if a Miller trade would be our only move between now and the beginning of next season. I'm tired of teams that scratch and claw to try and just barely make it in, I'm willing to be patient for a while if management is willing to take a more patient approach to team building, it's not as if we've had a ton of success these last eight years anyway. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by Coconuts

[Coconuts]

16 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

Well, some of those runner ups to be GM of the Canucks are currently AGM’s with their current club. Why would they make a lateral move? 

 

Depends on what's offered I suppose? Mellanby resigned from the Habs, could see him maybe coming on board. 

[spook007]

2 hours ago, DefCon1 said:

Too bad thats the only ones. He got everything wrong from OEL, to Myers to Dickenson and Pearson. Thats after giving up our 9th overall to trade away Ericksson, Roussel, Beagle. We still have Hamonic who has only played a handful of games this season. Good lord, at least Benning got fired before making more dumb signings and trades.

Disagree... the 9th pick also gave us Garland, which was probably worth the 9th alone. 

Now if JR start selling off and go full rebuild, yes then the 9th might have been better to keep, but doesn't sound like thats the plan... 

 

Pearson has been a fair and plays to his price tag.

Hamonic was very good last year... can't blame Benning for him being out first with the Covid crap and then injured

Vanek was another good purchase

OEL has been ok together with Myers

Dorsett was fine

Schenn was fine

Vrabata was fine until he threw his toys out the pram second season

Baertschi ok'ish first 2 contracts 

 

Agree there were a lot of duds as well...

 

 

[iinatcc]

29 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Disagree... the 9th pick also gave us Garland, which was probably worth the 9th alone. 

 

In a contending team yes. It's not exactly the kind of deal you do going from bottom feeder to playoff hopeful. Especially when the Miller trade served a similar purpose 

 

But let's say that deal is fine there's still OEL's contract and the other 2nd round (I think) pick on top of Garland for a 9th. OEL is fine now but, unless he defies common expectations, it's a contract that is not going to age well. 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by iinatcc

[spook007]

1 minute ago, iinatcc said:

In a contending team yes. It's not exactly the kind of deal you do going from bottom feeder to playoff hopeful. Especially when the Miller trade served a similar purpose 

 

But let's say that deal is fine there's still OEL's contract and the other 2nd round (I think) pick on top of Garland for a 9th. OEL is fine now but, unless he defies common expectations, it's a contract that is not going to age well. 

Fair assessment, but let wait with the lynch men until we see if it becomes as much of a problem as so predicts...

TBH I think most of us saw a decent team starting the season, and definitely didn't see the total collapse that happened...

[iinatcc]

1 minute ago, spook007 said:

Fair assessment, but let wait with the lynch men until we see if it becomes as much of a problem as so predicts...

TBH I think most of us saw a decent team starting the season, and definitely didn't see the total collapse that happened...

True but this is probably also a case of Benning not factoring in all the possibilities and was hoping for the best case scenario with his moves. I guess his nuclear option if you will 

 

I think ultimately though especially with seeing the new hires Rutherford is doing in the management front, Benning was trying to run a professional Hockey organization like a mom and pop shop. I'm glad for the recent hires since it makes the Canucks a world class organization again and not the "aw shucks" management style prior 

[spook007]

Just now, iinatcc said:

True but this is probably also a case of Benning not factoring in all the possibilities and was hoping for the best case scenario with his moves. I guess his nuclear option if you will 

 

I think ultimately though especially with seeing the new hires Rutherford is doing in the management front, Benning was trying to run a professional Hockey organization like a mom and pop shop. I'm glad for the recent hires since it makes the Canucks a world class organization again and not the "aw shucks" management style prior 

I agree on that without knowing to much about the reason for this.

Linden was never replaced, and even though I think Linden was just a figure head, Benning could have been done with somebody else to support him... 

It looked more and more like Benning was on a throne, without interest in other voices... But not sure if that was the case.

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

No it was the first goal on Martin. There is a reason he hasn’t been in the nhl in a few years. He’s played great but he is what he is.

The last two starts he did enough to win a game - both times.    All you can ask from your goalie ... first star both games in a loss says something too.   Demko let soft ones in a few times coming off Aqua/Melnyk imposed break too...doubt he'd have won the game either.    Halak maybe lol.  

[grandmaster]

6 hours ago, D-Money said:

Yeah, that backcheck was weak sauce. I thought Dickinson was a good acquisition in the offseason, but he sure hasn't played like it.

 

Funniest thing was Myers dumping it in to change during 3-on-3. Seriously?

Yes that play by Myers also made me yell at my TV. You NEVER voluntarily give up possession of the puck like that during 3 on 3! 

[Phat Fingers]

The stick clutching and second guessing are all over some players who prior to this year were very much natural or gifted talents.  
 

Petey, he showed the early flash with the first goal.  He stole the puck and then he drove the play to the high danger area and scored.  
 

When was the last time he did that, something that he did consistently prior to this season, drive the play.  There may be issues with missing camp that he never got over early, maybe a lack of off ice training, or he is just not confident this season for reasons no one knows but him and those around him.  
 

For what ever reasons, Petey is not sulking, but hopefully Bruce can un coach any hesitations out of his game, getting him back to the player he is more than capable being, a guy playing as hard as Miller and Motte, the pass in OT was a gaffe and not smart… he looked gassed and he needs to be the guy who wants the puck when the game is on the line, instead of seeking to give it to someone else.  
 

to paraphrase, the replacements, Gene Hackman… to Keeuno Reeves… best movie to watch for best cheerleader squad of all time…. 

 

Anyways Koss, the goalie for Edmonton, who played a hard game, as good as they have for months, looks like getting on the road has done them good.  
 

They had their top line up, we did not, with our 3rd string goalie and they needed 50 shots, the refs and OT to win.  
 

So can we stop the panic and foaming at the mouth for trades, Rutherford just hired his GM and don’t think things aren’t in the works.  This team is a bubble team that could still go either way, sometimes, a deal to move a veteran can benefit the team today, and tomorrow, vs just tomorrow.  
 

The players are there, we have some key depth in key ways in key positions that contenders want to acquire at ridiculous prices at the TDL, so let Rutherford Used players and New Players and factor discount seconds that never quite made it to the NHL make you a deal you cannot refuse to your fans, your hype and hopes, at the TDL.  
 

We have depth, in some ways too much and I like Martin, he let in a soft goal, a technical error, that is a coaching fix… good thing we have Clark.  So just let your mind go with more ice time in Abbey Silvos and Mikey, 1.5 less in cap paid out and returns, draft picks and or prospects and a cap dump goalie in return maybe.. for Halak.  
 

 Martin has one rare ability, to take away the bottom of the net better than most over goalies I have seen play.  
 

Both goals were high, the second one, that was not on Martin, the first was and is a coaching fix… 

 

Koss played well.  The Canucks weren’t a match for the Oilers, but consider who was missing from each roster and that Martin could be the next Markstrom if Clark can fix his game in areas that can be coached.  That and with Demko, having a guy that can steal games as a backup, which I think Martin can be, then role the dice at Gentleman Jim Rutherford’s Used Players and see if you win a free goalie!  
 

for those slagging Mikey, what has this team done to develop him?  Added he is a smaller player in that position.   The guy that savaged the Canucks in the finals, he was also the better goalie in the series, mentally and physically, was smaller too.  
 

what you don’t think of is wingspan and Mikey has a really good wingspan and is nearly as flexible as Martin.  like other players in the organization, he isn’t playing with the confidence he has prior to this year.  But he is not alone and currently went from 3rd in team depth to a 4th while having to give way and share ice time with the 5 th player at that position… that’s rough.  
 

Playing time and watch the interviews in Abbey, clearly Martin is aware that Vancouver has a long history of Goalie bashing and controversy, since we can’t slack Halak and would be mental to down Demko, Martin is stirred, not shaken and so we go after the 4th string goalie with vitriol… wow, that’s just sad.  

As for dealing Motte, sign him!  IDK, but he is a gem… 

 

Miller, what fortitude would this roster without Miller at the current time in our forwards.  I think I would sign Miller and move one of the younger depth guys for a larger return or a player for player swap to re balance or address the roster by position, or for two guys that could benefit from a change of scenery.  
 

Keep. Myers,  Schenn, lose Poolman, keep Burroughs and bring up from the farm from here on out if we move a right handed D man.  This could be off-season.  
 

Left side, leave it.  Don’t trade away the left side but add too it.  But too much of the same thing is not good for all the time.  So we have some smaller stature big game guys, Gallagher 2.0’s.  Garland is the best, Hogs is the next, so we have a decent left side with Miller Garland and Podz or Hogz.  
 

So we got out played and out muscled by a team desperately trying save their season and it was with their roster vs our depleted roster.  
 

It can live with the point.  This team has lots of dark horse bubble left in it, so a neither sell for the future, nor sell the future for today TDL… 

 

Popcorn for me on the CDC..

 

 

A loss, so bad, but a point which isn’t good nor bad, and we saw so depth players maybe make roster players expendable.. yeah team depth… 

or the sky is falling, trade the roster and burn the building down and rebuild the entire thing… sorry… hyperbolic statements are just my way of trying to relate…

 

Phats..
 

 

 

[Chris12345]

8 hours ago, cowboy644 said:

OEL has fallen to the useless catagory.There are a bucket load of D you can get that only play D for a shyte load less than 8 shmill

Not to worry his contract ends soon.

[spook007]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

The last two starts he did enough to win a game - both times.    All you can ask from your goalie ... first star both games in a loss says something too.   Demko let soft ones in a few times coming off Aqua/Melnyk imposed break too...doubt he'd have won the game either.    Halak maybe lol.  

Marky let in a soft one just about every game... Martin is least of this team worries... 

47 saves... and a lot of close calls... Martin was fine.

[Hairy Kneel]

8 hours ago, fanfor42 said:

Was at the game and Hunt was our worst player.  His pathetic gaffe to allow his man to just walk around him and score in the 3rd turned a 2 to 0 lead into a 2 to 1 lead and turned the whole game around.  Get rid of this guy now. He is a really lousy defenseman who has a resume of playing for teams for a while and then getting bounced.

See ya AHL Hunt.  Don't need any more lousy D here.

 

 

Puilot all over again. 

I hope Walker persuades Coach B. 

[73 Percent]

5 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

Puilot all over again. 

I hope Walker persuades Coach B. 

Why aren't we playing burroughs

[spook007]

6 hours ago, DefCon1 said:

Cmon bro, he was our best Dman and fans wanted him gone due to him being injury prone but the last season we had him, he was healthy all season playing with Hughes. Another dumb decision by Benning to not sign him. Now we have Mr. part time Hamonic who plays 5 games per season.

Injury prone AND AGE....

The same complaining there is about OEL in every PGT, when we lose....

We were a far better team with Tanev, as he complimented Hughes perfectly. 

 

Would like the crystal ball folks seems to expect Benning to have regarding OJ and Hamonic... It's injuries and some crap Covid issues... I sucks, but its not something that can be foreseen, just like Tanev staying healthy...

[spook007]

6 hours ago, canuck73_3 said:

He has not missed a game as a Flame. 

This is probably the biggest surprise regarding Tanev.... Nobody expected that.