Anyone else finding it hard to get excited for next year?

[Westcoasting]

I can’t see anything but being better next year. After the last half dozen years I never had a moment where I thought they could be a good team and working their way up. But it’s also been a 47 year hope for me as well

[Canuckfanforlife82]

4 hours ago, DSVII said:

It's really hard to enjoy how well he's playing this year considering that effort is going into another season with no playoffs, which was expressly what the gamble of taking him on was supposed to bring.

 

It's even harder to enjoy it considering we have to pray that his level of play does not significantly decline for the next 5 full seasons after this. Which neatly spans over the prime of this core. 

 

The reason why we're in this mess is because there has been zero thought put into the long term salary cap implications of constructing this team. If anything we need to focus on this more.

 

I'd say a solid two thirds of the league has a better prospect pool than us right now, because we've been the one consistently trading away our 1sts and 2nds for one and done runs. 

 

Agreed on all points.

[Eddie]

Yeah i'm struggling to see light at the end of the tunnel for next year right now. 

 

I think there's one of either two scenarios happen: 

 

1.  Very few changes are made, maybe a sideways move or two.  Maybe a player or two out for picks and a new C tier FA signed.  but largely the same team returns and were either equally bad - or more than likely a fringe playoff team without the Green start debacle and a year of key new players playing together. Miller is probably signed to a Zib like contract (8.5x8) and Boeser probably signs as 6.5 - 7. Both contracts that will likely condemn the Canucks to long term mediocrity.  

 

2. A larger retool is undertaken and we are equally bad. Miller goes, Garland goes.  Younger players and picks come in.  Our scoring woes continue and we don't really get much better anywhere else immediately. Tho maybe a bit faster and more fun to watch at times.  

 

Only thing i could see that would make a larger difference if you want to be Cpt Positive ( lets be honest the last 10 years have crushed that out of most of us ) Then we would need some pretty large points of improbable luck for next season to really turn around with our prospects : 

 

- Woo develops into a legit #2 physical RHD - Not trending that well thus far in another injury hampered season but promise is still there. Poolman Traded

- Rathbone develops into a #2 LHD giving us a dangerous, fast offensive Left side.  Top 5 in scoring in a injury shortened AHL season. 

- Karlson is a 2 way scoring threat on the 3rd line - Dickinson traded - Broke Petey's SHL record but at 4( i think) years older. 

- Mikey or Spencer Martin prove a reliable cost controlled starter. 

 

Gives us younger faster, more skilled support players and ~5-6M ( given other spare parts traded or not resigned) to upgrade upfront too. That's the only hope for me. In a team that had succesfully stockpiled picks instead of Linden Vey and Sven Bearcheese during their rebuild would have a much better chance of this happening at this phase of the build

 

All those prospects are trending reasonably well, so not completely outside the realm of possibility but knowing our luck they all bust hard or are traded for some Pittsburgh plugs.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Eddie

[Canucks_fo_life]

LOL look at our record with Bruce Boudreau, how can you not be excited for next year? If they stay healthy they'll win this division hands down. 

[Iron Man]

Not a chance. First offseason with new management? I'm excited to see what we do.

[Vinny in Vancouver]

9 hours ago, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

Maybe it’s just me but is anyone else finding it hard to get excited for next year? I look at our depth and the lack of prospects in the system. I keep hearing they may want to retain Boeser and keep Miller and it doesn’t sound like a lot of change might happen. I am also worried about the bad contracts we have on this team and how they might limit their ability to make changes. If we are seeing that some of these contracts as bad then what do other teams think of them and why would they want them? They really handcuff what the organization can do. It’s mostly the depth in the system that bothers me. It’s crazy to look at Tampa and Colorado who are already great teams but they can always go their system and get more. Anyways, is there anyone else with the same thoughts. I am hopeful with the new management and I am so happy Benning isn’t here anymore.

Fwiw, imho, Tampa and Colorado (and any other teams with superstars) are the wrong comparables if you want hope. I would look at the Flames. If they can do it with the players they have in just a few years, we should be able to do so as well. Heck, other than their coach, the biggest difference makers on their team from 2 years ago are 2 ex-Canucks in Tanev and Markstrom which they got through cap space. 

[Kevin Biestra]

17 minutes ago, Vinny in Vancouver said:

Fwiw, imho, Tampa and Colorado (and any other teams with superstars) are the wrong comparables if you want hope. I would look at the Flames. If they can do it with the players they have in just a few years, we should be able to do so as well. Heck, other than their coach, the biggest difference makers on their team from 2 years ago are 2 ex-Canucks in Tanev and Markstrom which they got through cap space. 

 

That's fair but we have yet to see if Calgary is capable of playoff success.  Of the last 15 Cup champions you could only make a case that four (Boston, LAx2 and St. Louis) didn't have superstar cores.

 

And even that's if you don't count Bergeron / Chara / Thomas / Marchand or Kopitar / Quick.  If you do count those you're down to 1/15 in St. Louis and they still had Selke winner O'Reilly and touched by the hand of god for one season Binnington.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Josepho said:

Can you please name them?

 

Keep in mind the term is far more egregious than the AAV at this point.

Erik Karlsson, Brent Burns, Marc-Edouard Vlasic just to name three Sharks. 

 

I don't care how many minutes Seth Jones eats up, they're not good minutes and that's not a good contract. 

 

Drew Doughty has 5 years left at 11 mil.  He's on par with OEL when it comes to their play, so I'd rather have OEL at 7 mil/year. 

 

Shae Weber is 36 with 4 years left at 7.5 mil 

 

I'd rather have OEL at 7 mil then Ryan McDonaugh at 6.75 mil.  Ivan Provorov is making the same amount and again I'll take OEL. 

Hampus Lindholm has 8 years at 6.5.  I'd rather have OEL once again for an extra 500k.  I'd prefer Jeff Petry over OEL from last year, but OEL has outplayed him and Petry is 34 and has three years left at 6.25.  

Rasmus Ristolainen has 5 years left at 5.1 mil.  No idea what Philly was thinking there. Rasmus isn't even half the d-man that OEL is.  

 

There's 10 d-man who I wouldn't trade OEL straight up for. 

 

[Guest]

Btw we are in the middle of the worst stretch that we've had under Bruce Boudreau and we have just been eliminated from the playoffs.  I got the Canuck blues at the moment as well, but it's important to keep things in perspective.  We have played much better under BB and hopefully it will continue into next season.  

 

I really think that we can shed one of our high priced forwards and not skip too much of a beat next year.  I believe in the new management and I'm excited for the process. 

[filthycanuck]

3 hours ago, Vinny in Vancouver said:

Fwiw, imho, Tampa and Colorado (and any other teams with superstars) are the wrong comparables if you want hope. I would look at the Flames. If they can do it with the players they have in just a few years, we should be able to do so as well. Heck, other than their coach, the biggest difference makers on their team from 2 years ago are 2 ex-Canucks in Tanev and Markstrom which they got through cap space. 

Well some of their Stockton graduates are playing a big part in their success right now (Dube, Mangiappane, Kylington, Anderson). Canucks are gonna need to fix whatever the hell is going on with their farm team. They've hardly churned out any talent the last 8 years

Edited April 5, 2022 by filthycanuck

[Russ]

If its same roster then not excited. 

 

But I don't think Jim and Allvin will come back with the same roster if they can avoid it.  Hopefully be meaningful changes.

[IBatch]

9 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

I think the gun has been jumped a bit on Pettersson to be honest and did from the start.  He could well establish himself as one...but to date I would say he's halfway between an actual star that has a potential shot at an Art Ross Trophy (or even top five in NHL scoring for one season) and at the other end someone like Petr Klima who is a highly skilled wizard that still hovers around 65 points.

 

 

Yes or Kovalev.    Superstars are guys that are regularly at the top of their position, perrenial first and second team all-stars.   One offs don't count either.   The HHOF is actually full of blue chip stars that weren't ever really superstars. It's awfully hard to get any hardware in this league too. 

 

Right now that's a pretty short list.   McDavid, Draisatl, Mckinnon - maybe Makar because looks like he's getting another Norris nomination or close too it ... Hedman, Vasilevsky, Kucherov (when he plays).... Ovi of course ... Mathews.   Markstrom is getting closer but still needs probably one more year (would be 3 out of 4 - at that point he deserves that recognition) .... Kane maybe still in CHI...

 

On average there isn't many around at one time - and that's how it's supposed to be.   To be super - that's another level above regular blue chip stars like Stamkos.   It's pretty hard to separate from the pack.   Josi and Carlson are likely one off examples with the Norris.   

 

EP looked to have the chops his rookie season.   Maybe he still has, he's certainly young enough.    QHs is for sure a top 5 offensive D in this league now.   All around game has a ways to go yet but it's getting there.     Huberdeau and Barkov are making a case for themselves too. 

 

[Kevin Biestra]

11 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Yes or Kovalev.    Superstars are guys that are regularly at the top of their position, perrenial first and second team all-stars.   One offs don't count either.   The HHOF is actually full of blue chip stars that weren't ever really superstars. It's awfully hard to get any hardware in this league too. 

 

Right now that's a pretty short list.   McDavid, Draisatl, Mckinnon - maybe Makar because looks like he's getting another Norris nomination or close too it ... Hedman, Vasilevsky, Kucherov (when he plays).... Ovi of course ... Mathews.   Markstrom is getting closer but still needs probably one more year (would be 3 out of 4 - at that point he deserves that recognition) .... Kane maybe still in CHI...

 

On average there isn't many around at one time - and that's how it's supposed to be.   To be super - that's another level above regular blue chip stars like Stamkos.   It's pretty hard to separate from the pack.   Josi and Carlson are likely one off examples with the Norris.   

 

EP looked to have the chops his rookie season.   Maybe he still has, he's certainly young enough.    QHs is for sure a top 5 offensive D in this league now.   All around game has a ways to go yet but it's getting there.     Huberdeau and Barkov are making a case for themselves too. 

 

 

I'd say Stamkos was a legit superstar 10 years ago.  Led the league in goals twice, top 3 in voting at C for at the end of the season for 4 years in a row.

 

Crazy that even perennial post-season All Stars can fail to make the HOF.  Four years in a row for Rick Martin (1st team twice) and still on the outside looking in...died ten years ago or so, so he never will get to see it if it happens.  Just lacked longevity and career numbers...kind of a Neely / Bure type career.

 

Kind of a similar deal for Charlie Simmer or Kevin Stevens too I guess.  Heh, Kevin Stevens was a post-season All-Star 3x but gets almost literally no credit.  They just go on Lemieux's resume.

Edited April 5, 2022 by Kevin Biestra

[smithers joe]

imo, we need 2 top 4 rd men, at least 3 faster, tougher wingers for next year. it will take some surgery to make it happen.

if the new group can make this happen, i'll be happy but i'll follow this team into my grave.

[Bure_of_94]

17 hours ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

The decisions that will be made during the off-season will determine my excitement for next year. This is going to be the biggest summer for the Canucks in a while.

Same here. I have this sick feeling like we’ll get a B-level prospect or a 3rd rd pick that maybe becomes higher(conditionally) on Boeser re-signing with a team lower than his qualifying offer before he becomes a UFA due to not being qualified @7.5.

[Dazzle]

18 hours ago, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

Maybe it’s just me but is anyone else finding it hard to get excited for next year? I look at our depth and the lack of prospects in the system. I keep hearing they may want to retain Boeser and keep Miller and it doesn’t sound like a lot of change might happen. I am also worried about the bad contracts we have on this team and how they might limit their ability to make changes. If we are seeing that some of these contracts as bad then what do other teams think of them and why would they want them? They really handcuff what the organization can do. It’s mostly the depth in the system that bothers me. It’s crazy to look at Tampa and Colorado who are already great teams but they can always go their system and get more. Anyways, is there anyone else with the same thoughts. I am hopeful with the new management and I am so happy Benning isn’t here anymore.

LOL...

 

If you want to know why depth is so bad, especially when absurdly trying to compare Tampa and Colorado, it's because they drafted their players. Guess who didn't draft well? Gillis.
 

Seems like it's pulling teeth for some people to admit that Gillis screwed the pooch hard, and it's still costing the Canucks. People say 8+ years have passed - it's really not that simple. When you get caught trying to continue a cycle that shouldn't have been continued, then we lose opportunity to maximize our assets.

 

As for new management, they will have to sell high on Miller for them to actually be good. As of now, there is no way to say that new management is much better. All they've done so far is trade Motte, and hiring Boudreau. That's it.

 

Boudreau is an absolutely good hiring, and I never want to hear how Green was supposedly "handcuffed" from coaching his rosters. He sucked, and is also the reason why we got into a hole that we couldn't recover from.

[combover]

Master of pathetic excuses Jb and “that’s a good team over there” Green are GONE  those reasons are enough to be excited. 
fingers crossed we don’t add any 30+ years olds on handcuffing contracts for the next 6 years.

Or toss away any developing youth and  grit to keep ufa trash. 

 

We shall see what this large management group is actually capable of in the coming months. 

 

 

[Josepho]

8 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

Erik Karlsson, Brent Burns, Marc-Edouard Vlasic just to name three Sharks. 

 

I don't care how many minutes Seth Jones eats up, they're not good minutes and that's not a good contract. 

 

Drew Doughty has 5 years left at 11 mil.  He's on par with OEL when it comes to their play, so I'd rather have OEL at 7 mil/year. 

 

Shae Weber is 36 with 4 years left at 7.5 mil 

 

I'd rather have OEL at 7 mil then Ryan McDonaugh at 6.75 mil.  Ivan Provorov is making the same amount and again I'll take OEL. 

Hampus Lindholm has 8 years at 6.5.  I'd rather have OEL once again for an extra 500k.  I'd prefer Jeff Petry over OEL from last year, but OEL has outplayed him and Petry is 34 and has three years left at 6.25.  

Rasmus Ristolainen has 5 years left at 5.1 mil.  No idea what Philly was thinking there. Rasmus isn't even half the d-man that OEL is.  

 

There's 10 d-man who I wouldn't trade OEL straight up for. 

 

Hmmm. You actually brought up some interesting contracts that I forgot about, but this is reasonable. I would disagree on the following players:

 

Karlsson is at the very least comparable, he's a better player but makes more money. Both expire in the same year, so pick your poison. 

 

Vlasic and Burns both end earlier, and those later years are where OEL's contract is going to sink the team. This is similar to why I thought an Player Name/Lucic swap was a terrible idea, even if Lucic was a better player -- people are underestimating how bad that extra year is. Look at what the Canucks had to do to get out of that extra year of Beagle/Player Name/Roussel. Look at what Toronto had to do to get out of that final year of Marleau, or what NYR had to do to get out of that final year of Staal.

 

Doughty is the same thing as Karlsson. Your opinion is reasonable, I don't have a particular strong opinion myself here. 

 

I would still rather take Weber due to the term, but I don't know if this one should count anyways seeing as Weber will probably never play a game in the NHL again.

 

McDonagh's also ends earlier, which is enough to swing it in his favour.

 

Provorov is younger and his contract ends earlier -- this isn't even close. I would probably actually trade assets for Provorov if he came up in a trade, I wouldn't for any of these other guys.

 

Petry also ends way earlier. 

 

Lindholm and Ristolainen I definitely agree with you on. Doughty and Karlsson you can flip a coin, and the rest I definitely disagree with you about. And this is coming in OEL's personal best season in years -- if he regresses back to the form he was in in his later Arizona years, this could get ugly extremely quickly. 

 

I was absolutely appalled when we took on that contract and I still am appalled today.

Edited April 5, 2022 by Josepho

[DSVII]

2 hours ago, Dazzle said:

LOL...

 

If you want to know why depth is so bad, especially when absurdly trying to compare Tampa and Colorado, it's because they drafted their players. Guess who didn't draft well? Gillis.
 

Seems like it's pulling teeth for some people to admit that Gillis screwed the pooch hard, and it's still costing the Canucks. People say 8+ years have passed - it's really not that simple. When you get caught trying to continue a cycle that shouldn't have been continued, then we lose opportunity to maximize our assets.

 

As for new management, they will have to sell high on Miller for them to actually be good. As of now, there is no way to say that new management is much better. All they've done so far is trade Motte, and hiring Boudreau. That's it.

 

Boudreau is an absolutely good hiring, and I never want to hear how Green was supposedly "handcuffed" from coaching his rosters. He sucked, and is also the reason why we got into a hole that we couldn't recover from.

If a GM can't replenish a prospect pool or construct a team with depth in 8 years, they don't deserve that position. 

 

The depth is so bad because Benning was impatient and traded away his prospects for help now, like Forsling, McCann. Both are playing in top 2 and top 6 roles in their orgs respectively, had Benning just stayed still, we would be better off. 

 

Gillis did screw the pooch hard, but he left Benning in a better position for a rebuild than what Benning left this current group. He set up the Utica Farm team that didn't exist before, even Prospect Pool and Salary cap wise it was better. At least when Gillis was gone Horvat and Markstrom were in the system, there was cap flexibility and tradeable contracts (that Benning chose not to move). 

 

This team is in purgatory/mediocrity, and can't easily shift to a rebuild or retool as well because of just how tight we are against the cap with immoveable contracts. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by DSVII

[grandmaster]

I’ll be excited if they keep Miller and if he can keep up his beast mode. I’m done if they trade him. This team will be utter garbage if Miller is gone.