Cu Cu Cu Country Club Cleanup [Proposal]

[IBatch]

10 hours ago, hammertime said:

You're painting Brock as a guy that goes into the corner to make a play? 

I gotta say I enjoy reading a lot of your posts and I appreciate your presence on CDC as one of the better posters adding often very good commentary that I come here to read. But on this particular subject playoff performer Brock I think I'll just agree to disagree. 

 

We see a very different player. When I'm staring down the barrel of 7.5m QO or alternatively lock him up long term to save a league min contract. Neither of those options are nearly as attractive as 5.9 cap space and a 2nd.

Nope i'm just saying maybe we should give him another chance.   I enjoy your posts too..  I've also suggested Brock and Myers are the guys we need to find partners for - but they won't bring us anything but cap relief and then gamble on UFAs ...  Think it has to start with Miller.   NYR might have beat TB if they had him instead of Schnieder.   If that's not a workable deal then trading Myers comes with a lot of risk at least as far as playoffs go next season.     I sometimes get my hackles up a little over Brock because we've also seen what he can do - and yes  part of that is he can be good along the boards - 12th best in the league two seasons ago for a forward (as in getting the puck back) ... best on our team actually.   He took a massive hit i think from Soucy in MIN to make a play and new it was coming...he's not a delicate flower either. 

[UFCanuck]

Rutherford won back to back cups with Kessel as a 2nd liner.

 

Snipers are good to have around in tight games.

 

Boudreau has coached the top Sniper of a generation. Lets give him a year with Boeser and he should shine.

 

With Brock's father passing(rip duke) and a full 5 months to recover from that. He will come back with a fire to play for Duke. Like Burrows had when Luc Bourdon(rip) passed away. 

[hammertime]

52 minutes ago, UFCanuck said:

Rutherford won back to back cups with Kessel as a 2nd liner.

 

Snipers are good to have around in tight games.

 

Boudreau has coached the top Sniper of a generation. Lets give him a year with Boeser and he should shine.

 

With Brock's father passing(rip duke) and a full 5 months to recover from that. He will come back with a fire to play for Duke. Like Burrows had when Luc Bourdon(rip) passed away. 

And if he isn't back with fire in his belly because I've never seen that from him. And weve signed him long term at 6.5 ish? What then....... Do we really instead throw 7.5 at him so we can flush a season playing peekaboo with Brock. At some point the experiment is yielding diminishing returns. Weve already passed that point. 

 

I usually don't put Brock in my proposals he just disappears off my roster because it just becomes another Brock do we really need him thread. But in this case with this being a country club thread Brock is by definition a leader in our room who plays passive casual slow pillowy soft hockey. 

 

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by hammertime

[Nucker 67]

Y'know, when I think country club softies who vacay in the summers on the beach, rather than working on their craft and coming to camp ready - the first person I think of is Pettersson.  Yet, he's part of the new core.  

[Goal:thecup]

We cannot afford "Country Club" players.

For example, Brock's QO is way over-priced, and his new contract should be less than 6.0.

Even perhaps less than Garland's; it will probably have to go to arbitration.

 

Covid kicked the props out from under agents and their over-paid clients.

According to spotrac.com (www.spotrac.com/nhl/contracts), contracts signed in 2021 show the vice tightening due to the continuing low cap and escrow.

 

No new contracts have an AAV over Ovi's 9.5.

Hamilton, Makar, and Kaprisov are at 9.0.

Heiskanen 8.45

B Tkachuk 8.2

Q Hughes 7.85

Svechnikov 7.75

Laine 7.5

EP 7.35

Landeskog 7.0

 

We have to play hardball with players and their agents.

There are going to be a lot of players re-signing for less than some might think.

 

It might be easier to hold on to Miller for example if he comes in somewhere around EP's deal (probably with more than 3 yr term).

Also, we may not get as much in trade, or have to add more than we think, when trying to move players out.

 

We are going to lose some of our fan-favorite players for sure (imo).

And I do not think we are going to get the huge returns in trades speculated herein.

 

There will also be good players not signed and other teams trying to unload good players.

We only want determined players who understand the need to keep their salary demands down and who go all in for the team.

 

 

 

[Nucker 67]

Don't want to be soft?

 

Trade Pettersson, Hoglander, Garland and the friendly giant, Myers.

 

Build around:

 

Miller

Horvat

Boeser

Podkolzin

Lockwood

Klimovich*

Hughes (even though he's more beauty than beast, he's too special to trade)

Dermott

Schenn (invaluable leadership and grit)

Demko

 

 

 

 

 

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, hammertime said:

And if he isn't back with fire in his belly because I've never seen that from him. And weve signed him long term at 6.5 ish? What then....... Do we really instead throw 7.5 at him so we can flush a season playing peekaboo with Brock. At some point the experiment is yielding diminishing returns. Weve already passed that point. 

 

I usually don't put Brock in my proposals he just disappears off my roster because it just becomes another Brock do we really need him thread. But in this case with this being a country club thread Brock is by definition a leader in our room who plays passive casual slow pillowy soft hockey. 

 

 

Allvin/JR made it clear they don't have a problem with Brocks QO...and that they still had him under club control for another year anyways (after this QO offer).   Feel they won't sell low on him, and let him sink or swim as far as whatever sort of deal he gets the following year.    Also said he hasn't earned even a medium term deal ... 2-3 years.    So he's got to decide if he wants to take us for the one year deal, or sign a bit more guaranteed money and prove it's justified.     I'm sure we could get a bag of pucks for him and his cap space back.   I'm not crippled with the idea he's the next Brett Hull or Cam Neely trade.    But i don't think he's worth writing off quite yet either.   

Edited June 13, 2022 by IBatch

[HKSR]

18 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

We need mean marshmallows 

Look... I get it... but Jake Virtanen is not the key here.

[hammertime]

12 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

Don't want to be soft?

 

Trade Pettersson, Hoglander, Garland and the friendly giant, Myers.

 

Build around:

 

Miller

Horvat

Boeser

Podkolzin

Lockwood

Klimovich*

Hughes (even though he's more beauty than beast, he's too special to trade)

Dermott

Schenn (invaluable leadership and grit)

Demko

 

 

 

 

 

I think we have a different definition of soft. 

 

Garland and Pete both battle hard. Pete's up near the top of the league in takeaways sure maybe he's light but when the game gets heavy he doesn't shy away from it. Garland gets under guys skin he and Pete are 4th and 6th in the league respectively in terms of penalties drawn vs penalties taken. That to me is a big indicator that they are involved they aren't passive they have the game chasing them.

 

Hoglander is kinda the "we have Connor Garland at home" version.  Need different ingredients to make a sandwich. 

I don't have a problem with Myers he's not the problem trading him just makes things worse. He's got 2 years left we should be planning for that.  

 

We don't have to ice a goon squad but we do need a complete buy into wolf pack mentality. 

[DownUndaCanuck]

I wonder if this "country club" remark is really looking at Boeser, Myers, Poolman and Dickinson. Big contracts and players not living up to them. For me personally I'd rather we hold on to Brock - he's coming off a tough year with his dad but has previously been a consistent 25-33 goal (pace) scoring forward with size. He's got a lot of potential and would be silly to give up on him just because of his QO - also don't forget what sort of impact trading away Petey's friend will have on him. For Myers, his 6M price tag looks stupid but he's our top right handed defenceman who can play PK and PP so who do we have in our organization to fill that role? We're already a top RD down, let's not make it 2.

 

That being said, if JR wants to go all JB-style and trade/re-shuffle our entire team, if he's moving Brock and Myers out he's got to find us 2 top-4 right handed shutdown defencemen who can kill penalties in the same off-season, and there's not really many in the UFA. 

 

A Boeser-for-Marino straight up deal is certainly on the cards but I worry Marino is going to struggle defensively - he's not the biggest, strongest defenceman out there and that's who we need to play with Hughes, not another skinny puck mover. 

 

You just know there's potential for Myers + Boeser for Marino + Kapanen but we'll have to retain cap there because Pittsburgh are right up against it and we basically get two players with arguably less quality back.

 

Honestly I'd rather sit tight on Boeser and Myers and get rid of Poolman and Dickinson for sure. Wouldn't pay more than a 4th to get rid of their cap though. If Poolman's asking price is too much to take off our hands then we may as well see what he can bring to the table with a proper off-season once he's healthy, but I wouldn't give Dickinson another shot - he was dreadful defensively, dreadful at center and only had success on Bo's wing which is an easy job.

[-DLC-]

I love that these two (Kypreos, Shannon) are labeling our team negatively. Nothing happening in Toronto these days? Suddenly no one's talking about the Leafs.

[Alflives]

28 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

I love that these two (Kypreos, Shannon) are labeling our team negatively. Nothing happening in Toronto these days? Suddenly no one's talking about the LOSER Leafs.

Fixed it for you. 

[Baratheon]

45 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

I love that these two (Kypreos, Shannon) are labeling our team negatively. Nothing happening in Toronto these days? Suddenly no one's talking about the Leafs.

Be proud of them!  They noticed a team aside from the Leafs for once!

 

My understanding was that they were saying Rutherford is the one who feels the room is like a country club or whatever.  This thread gave me a bit of a chuckle because people latched on to the country club comments.  Rutherford has made it plain as day in interviews that he wants to keep Brock.  People are just picking and choosing the things they want to pay attention to when it comes to JR.

[Baratheon]

7 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I wonder if this "country club" remark is really looking at Boeser, Myers, Poolman and Dickinson. Big contracts and players not living up to them. For me personally I'd rather we hold on to Brock - he's coming off a tough year with his dad but has previously been a consistent 25-33 goal (pace) scoring forward with size. He's got a lot of potential and would be silly to give up on him just because of his QO - also don't forget what sort of impact trading away Petey's friend will have on him. For Myers, his 6M price tag looks stupid but he's our top right handed defenceman who can play PK and PP so who do we have in our organization to fill that role? We're already a top RD down, let's not make it 2.

 

That being said, if JR wants to go all JB-style and trade/re-shuffle our entire team, if he's moving Brock and Myers out he's got to find us 2 top-4 right handed shutdown defencemen who can kill penalties in the same off-season, and there's not really many in the UFA. 

 

A Boeser-for-Marino straight up deal is certainly on the cards but I worry Marino is going to struggle defensively - he's not the biggest, strongest defenceman out there and that's who we need to play with Hughes, not another skinny puck mover. 

 

You just know there's potential for Myers + Boeser for Marino + Kapanen but we'll have to retain cap there because Pittsburgh are right up against it and we basically get two players with arguably less quality back.

 

Honestly I'd rather sit tight on Boeser and Myers and get rid of Poolman and Dickinson for sure. Wouldn't pay more than a 4th to get rid of their cap though. If Poolman's asking price is too much to take off our hands then we may as well see what he can bring to the table with a proper off-season once he's healthy, but I wouldn't give Dickinson another shot - he was dreadful defensively, dreadful at center and only had success on Bo's wing which is an easy job.

I don't think we can read too much in to what "country club" means since it came from Kypreos.  It was hard to tell if he was saying that he THINKS Rutherford feels this way or that he's actually heard it.  Since we haven't heard it from Jim then I find it difficult to speculate on who/what exactly he would mean by that.  

 

Your logic checks out and you could very well be right.  It could just as easily be Miller however.  JT is not who I would think of as "country club" but perhaps JR doesn't like his commitment defensively.  Just too hard to say because Kypreos was a little vague.

[kenhodgejr]

If we cant get a good RD for Boeser we could trade him for another winger who ads a bit more size and speed.

 

Boeser to Chicago for Dominik Kubalik 

Sign Forsberg 

Sign Nick Roy

Sign Kuzmenko 

Sign Nick Hague

Trade or sign ethan Bear 

 

Trade - Boeser, Pearson, Dickenson, Hoglander, OEL, Myers 

 

Forsberg Miller Pettersson 

Kubalik Horvat Garland 

Kuzmenko Roy Podkolzin

Highmore Lammikko Lockwood 

 

Hughes Schenn

Hague Bear 

Dermot Boroughs 

Rathbone Bowey 

 

Draft more RD, Sign more RD from US college 

Edited June 14, 2022 by kenhodgejr

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Baratheon said:

Be proud of them!  They noticed a team aside from the Leafs for once!

 

My understanding was that they were saying Rutherford is the one who feels the room is like a country club or whatever.  This thread gave me a bit of a chuckle because people latched on to the country club comments.  Rutherford has made it plain as day in interviews that he wants to keep Brock.  People are just picking and choosing the things they want to pay attention to when it comes to JR.

Yep.   I think any Brock threads should be tagged with his comments.   Doesn't mean Brock can't be traded - but why bother really?   Doesn't seem like good timing (yet at least).   Nothing would make me happier then watching Brock come in guns ablazing and have a 35-35 season.   Funny thing is, that's where most fantasy "experts" had him a couple years ago....were they all wrong?  Maybe.  But that's also where he needs to be to justify his QO.     I don't mind giving him one more year to either prove them or the naysayers right.     Last year was absolutely mostly terrible...the not mostly terrible was the latter part.   Coach Green (who also was his coach when we were pretty bullish on Brock!) is gone ..,,   Let's wait and see.   

[Bobby James]

On 6/12/2022 at 1:31 PM, hammertime said:

- Brock's gotta go he's by definition country club player. He's got negative Jam get's all the best ice time does nothing to earn it. First team to offer a 2nd take it.

That seems like a waste of a potential asset. Just before this season, Brock could have easily pulled in a 1st round pick for him (and maybe more). 

 

I think you re-sign Brock to a bridge for around 6ish mil and see how this season goes. It is very likely he will have a much more productive year and suddenly if you want to move him there are now some decent trade options opening up for Van. 

 

Without needing to go into the details too much, I think we are greatly underestimating the toll Brock's personal life had on him and his play (which is completely fair to him). 

[qwijibo]

27 minutes ago, Bobby James said:

That seems like a waste of a potential asset. Just before this season, Brock could have easily pulled in a 1st round pick for him (and maybe more). 

 

I think you re-sign Brock to a bridge for around 6ish mil and see how this season goes. It is very likely he will have a much more productive year and suddenly if you want to move him there are now some decent trade options opening up for Van. 

 

Without needing to go into the details too much, I think we are greatly underestimating the toll Brock's personal life had on him and his play (which is completely fair to him). 

If you’re Boeser why do you sign a 1 year $6m deal when your qualifying offer guarantees you $7.5m?   If you want to get it done near $6m it’s going to have to have term. 

[Nucker 67]

just my opinion

 

Country Club

 

Pettersson

Boeser

Pearson

Dickinson

Hoglander

Ekman-Larsson

Myers

 

Blue-Collar

 

Miller

Horvat

Garland

Podkolzin

Highmore

Lockwood

Hughes

Schenn

Dermott

Burroughs

Demko

[Bobby James]

On 6/14/2022 at 2:16 PM, qwijibo said:

If you’re Boeser why do you sign a 1 year $6m deal when your qualifying offer guarantees you $7.5m?   If you want to get it done near $6m it’s going to have to have term.

I was thinking more of a 2-3 year bridge contract around 6-6.5 million per for Boeser. 

Yes he could just take his 1 year qualifying offer if he wants, but his agent and him won't be able to justify Boeser as a 7.5 million dollar player and I don't think it is unreasonable to think Boeser would be willing to take a more realistic cap hit and bet on himself that the next contract will be his big one.