48MPHSlapShot Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Despite being the worst team in the NHL, the Coyotes still have a pretty bare prospect pool, so I imagine they would welcome a LD prospect with big offensive upside like Rathbone into the fold, who is likely a redundant piece for us, as we have Hughes and OEL locked in for the foreseeable future. So since Arizona seems to be willing to take on bad contracts for futures, and we have a solid piece that likely doesn't have a future here, I have a simple proposal. To Arizona Rathbone Poolman and/or Dickinson To Vancouver Future considerations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Rathbone and Dickinson for a 3rd round pick. Plus they'll love Rathbone on the pp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Drunken Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 26 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: Despite being the worst team in the NHL, the Coyotes still have a pretty bare prospect pool, so I imagine they would welcome a LD prospect with big offensive upside like Rathbone into the fold, who is likely a redundant piece for us, as we have Hughes and OEL locked in for the foreseeable future. So since Arizona seems to be willing to take on bad contracts for futures, and we have a solid piece that likely doesn't have a future here, I have a simple proposal. To Arizona Rathbone Poolman and/or Dickinson To Vancouver Future considerations I feel like Poolman or Dickinson and a mid round pick would get it done, based on our thin prospect pool I hesitate on giving up on or letting Rathbone go right now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloubek Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Given that OEL is unlikely to be tradeable, and Hughes isn't going anywhere, that leaves only one spot on the left side. For next season, we could have Dermott to play on that side and Burroughs as a backup. I think the time is now for management to decide where they think Rathbone is headed, and if he isn't expected to supersede Dermott in the lineup, I would agree it's probably time to package him in order to move out cap if possible. With this said, if Rathbone can put it together he would be a role player (puck moving/scoring defenseman) whereas Dermott is quite frankly a warm body with very average ability and little upside. I really would love to see Rathbone secure a spot and succeed in this league. If we could have both he and Hughes scoring, along with moderate contributions from OEL, I think it would benefit us a lot more than plugging the hole with Dermott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said: I feel like Poolman or Dickinson and a mid round pick would get it done, based on our thin prospect pool I hesitate on giving up on or letting Rathbone go right now. Rathbone has no path towards being a contributing factor as we need a solid defensive guy for the third pairing with OEL and Hughes locked up. We can't afford a repeat of the Hunt debacle where the bottom pairing LD couldn't be trusted in his own zone. I'd prefer a hockey trade, but Rathbone likely has to be moved eventually. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Why are people so inclined to dumping Dickinson and Poolman if it costs assets? If we trade a big contract like Myers to free cap space and there's demand for him, I'd rather just try to repurpose Dickinson into a defensive role (e.g. if we can poach Nic Roy from VGK then they can be a defensive pairing). Burying Poolman only costs $916k. I'd rather try to sign a physical 3rd LHD, then trade Rathbone for Ethan Bear who wants out of Carolina. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris12345 Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Arizona takes contracts where there is a mismatch between cash flow and cap hit.....aka not Poolman or Dicky. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 23 minutes ago, King Heffy said: Rathbone has no path towards being a contributing factor as we need a solid defensive guy for the third pairing with OEL and Hughes locked up. We can't afford a repeat of the Hunt debacle where the bottom pairing LD couldn't be trusted in his own zone. I'd prefer a hockey trade, but Rathbone likely has to be moved eventually. Another short sighted Benning move (OEL) which blocked Rathbone. But if we are trading Rathbone, it shouldn't be until after we sign his buddy - Mcdonnough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 We already gave them our junk last year. Our junk this year isn't that bad. I don't think giving up Rathbone to get rid of Poolman/Dickinson is worth it. I also think you can give them a lesser prospect to take those players on. Replace Rathbone with someone like Jett Woo or Michael DiPietro and you may be onto something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Overpayment on our behalf, we keep sleeping on Rathbone who just dropped a PPG in the AHL. The kid deserves a shot and will get one soon with us with OEL getting older. I still believe we could even get a late pick back for maybe Poolman, and wouldn't pay more than a 4th to get rid of Dickinson. If we're trading Rathbone it's for a RD of similar quality. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Goose Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 too high of a cost to move a small cap hit like Dickinson or Poolman. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 I have a slightly contrarian opinion. 1. I agree that acquiring Dickinson and Poolman was a mistake (and a typical Benning mistake -- overpaying for non-core players with no clear plan or purpose other than hoping to get lucky). 2. But they are not bad enough for it to be worth giving up an asset to get rid of their contracts. Poolman is a serviceable bottom pairing D-man if healthy and provides some toughness and responsible defence. If not healthy he will be on LTIR and his contract will not be a problem. Dickinson is good defensively and, based on underlying numbers, should have something of a bounce back next year. He will still likely be overpaid but not by enough to make much difference. 3. @Chris12345 is right. Arizona would not want to take these contracts anyway. 4. I don't agree that Rathbone has no path forward on the Canucks. According to the Ben Kuzma, he is now 5-11 and 190 lbs. That is not "big" but is not exactly small. (I checked and found that the median NHL D is 6-1 and 196 lbs.) And his skating and puck-handling are very good--something the Canucks want more of on D.. The question mark is whether his defensive play has improved since last year. He was doing well defensively in the AHL but the NHL is different. But it is possible that he might have made similar strides (so to speak) to Hughes in his defensive play. 5. One final point. Normally I am last person to complain about being "disrespectful" to players. That kind of complaint is too politically correct for me. And they are getting paid millions of dollars and getting criticized is part of the package. It is not like the Canuck players read CDC anyway. But it seems a bit much to refer to guys like Dickinson and Poolman as "junk". They are good enough to be NHL players after all. Many people on CDC have played hockey at various levels but I am pretty sure that Dickinson and Poolman would outclass any of us by an embarrassingly large margin if we were on the ice together. 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Drunken Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, King Heffy said: Rathbone has no path towards being a contributing factor as we need a solid defensive guy for the third pairing with OEL and Hughes locked up. We can't afford a repeat of the Hunt debacle where the bottom pairing LD couldn't be trusted in his own zone. I'd prefer a hockey trade, but Rathbone likely has to be moved eventually. I don't fully disagree, but it's not like we are getting a ton of offensive production from our back end either and this team still struggles to run a powerplay. We also struggle mightily with getting the puck out of our zone cleanly and first passes - so the notion that we need defensive d-men only isn't fully correct. OEL likely would increase his production if he had a sound partner but he was no help on the powerplay. We do need more offensive production from our blueline, but we also need better play in our own zone....not a good spot to be in when you're top 3 in blueline spending is it. Offense from our blueline is problem Defense from our blueline is a problem We have 2 guys making $7+ and one making $6 and the blueline is considered a weakness still, yikes,what a $&!t sandwich. Edited June 23, 2022 by Harold Drunken 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 1 hour ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: Despite being the worst team in the NHL, the Coyotes still have a pretty bare prospect pool, so I imagine they would welcome a LD prospect with big offensive upside like Rathbone into the fold, who is likely a redundant piece for us, as we have Hughes and OEL locked in for the foreseeable future. So since Arizona seems to be willing to take on bad contracts for futures, and we have a solid piece that likely doesn't have a future here, I have a simple proposal. To Arizona Rathbone Poolman and/or Dickinson To Vancouver Future considerations I see zero reason to do this at this point. Both Poolman and Dickinson had off years, although Dickinson was getting better near the end of the season, under coaching with BB. Dickinson was really effective with Dallas, he may have had difficulty adapting to the style that Green was pushing and started to get his footing under new coaching and structure. Poolman was constantly sidelined with injuries and it's a reasonable assumption that he may be able to get his game on track with a new season and with a fresh approach to defense structure, right from training camp. He's currently injured though as well, so until he's healthy, he's not going anywhere. If there's not a hockey trade for these guys, I'd rather just put them in camp and see how they respond to a fresh start under BB and if they aren't working, then either trade them or waive them and send them to Abbotsford. Rathbone has more value that just being used in cap dump situations, I don't know why everyone is so focused on spending assets to get rid of a couple of guys who aren't really hurting us and should be movable in regular trades. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Drunken Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Angry Goose said: too high of a cost to move a small cap hit like Dickinson or Poolman. I'd pick Poolman first, at least Dickinson will play some minutes. Poolman isn't cracking the roster no matter how much of a crapshoot our bottom pairing is. Edited June 23, 2022 by Harold Drunken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 6 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said: I don't disagree, but it's not like we are getting a ton of offensive production from our back end and this team still struggles to run a powerplay, Our only D who puts up any kind of numbers is Hughes. We also struggle mightily with getting the puck out of our zone cleanly and first passes - so the notion that we need defensive d-men only isn't fully correct. OEL likely would if he had a sound partner. We do need more offensive production from our blueline, but we also need better play in our own zone....not a good spot to be in when you're top 3 in blueline spending is it. Offense from our blueline is problem Defense from our blueline is a problem We have 2 guys making $7+ and one making $6 and the blueline is considered a weakness still, yikes,what a $&!t sandwich. One of the main reasons for OEL not putting up a lot of points was that he had to eat up all the defensive minutes due to having a defensemen who can't play defence on the third pairing. Getting a solid shutdown guy allows him to play more offensive minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Goose Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 7 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said: I'd pick Poolman first, at least Dickinson will play some minutes. Poolman isn't cracking the roster no matter how much of a crapshoot our bottom pairing is. Barely got to see the guy play under Boudreau, and he wasnt terrible under Green’s breakout inept system. Im not writing him off yet. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Drunken Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Just now, King Heffy said: One of the main reasons for OEL not putting up a lot of points was that he had to eat up all the defensive minutes due to having a defensemen who can't play defence on the third pairing. Getting a solid shutdown guy allows him to play more offensive minutes. For sure, he needs a more defensively sound partner there's no argument there, He was pushed into a defensive role last year and he shouldn't have been although he did well. I just think the notion that we need defensive guys only is false, we need help in all areas back there, it's a mess. Hughes, to date, is our only viable option to run the powerplay and move the puck up ice efficiently. OEL would be second but he didn't do that all that well either despite his role. Being a smooth skater, getting PP time and making good first passes etc he should have been a bit more productive. They need to put him in a position to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Drunken Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Just now, Angry Goose said: Barely got to see the guy play under Boudreau, and he wasnt terrible under Green’s breakout inept system. Im not writing him off yet. Yeah he didn't play a ton, but at least we was dressed and did play. I still think there's a better chance of Dickinson finding his game than Poolman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 1 minute ago, Harold Drunken said: For sure, he needs a more defensively sound partner there's no argument there, He was pushed into a defensive role last year and he shouldn't have been although he did well. I just think the notion that we need defensive guys only is false, we need help in all areas back there, it's a mess. Hughes, to date, is our only viable option to run the powerplay and move the puck up ice efficiently. OEL would be second but he didn't do that all that well either despite his role. Being a smooth skater, getting PP time and making good first passes etc he should have been a bit more productive. They need to put him in a position to succeed. Hence my insistence that the third pairing needs to be good defensively in order to put OEL in a position to succeed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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