[Signing] Canucks re-sign J.T. Miller

[Wanless]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Again, if Miller can play that role then we are two top four right side D (proper partners for Hughes and OEL) from being Cup contenders.  I just don’t see that type of commitment to the game without the puck in Miller’s game.  Would be great for us if he realizes that’s what is best for our team, but not too sure he has that willingness to give up 30 points to be that guy.  But he does have a long term deal now, so hopefully he can make that sacrifice for the team.  Much like what Yzerman did for the Wings.  And what Trottier did for the Pens.  He could be so good at that role too.  

 

With a full pressure line like mik mil and podz i could see that he would be much better at getting back as it would happen less. This line combo seens like they would be excellent at breaking up any flow and rhythm to the other team as well as grind out shifts in the offensive zone and create sloppy possession for the other team to cause lots of turnovers

 

I see them using their offensive pressure to be their defence 

[AV.]

2 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

“Some fans”
 

I’m not arguing they didn’t get good value. I’m saying they didn’t need to make the trades in the first place.
 

Holmgren made an impulsive move and it cost them a real chance at a cup. He clearly had no direction after that which is why he was replaced a couple seasons later. 

 

Yes, "some fans" because there obviously exists the possibility of at least one person who didn't like the deal.

Your claim of there being no direction is not substantiated:  https://www.broadstreethockey.com/2020/5/14/21258368/flyers-what-if-jeff-carter-mike-richards-only-trade-one-analysis-sean-couturier-for-selke
The Flyers needed to either continue with Carter and Richards and the team that won 18 playoff games in two years, or completely change directions. Due to the organization’s desire to try to find a solution at the goalie position, the cap crunch, and some off-ice antics, the Flyers chose the latter. Barring any drastic changes outside of Carter and Richards in the early 2010s, it looks like the Flyers made the right decision in the long run.
The execution failed around this plan, but to imply it was impulsive and directionless is incorrect.  They committed to a team built around Giroux and Pronger, tried to infuse it with youth (Simmonds, Voracek, Couturier, Read), added vets to support (Jagr, Talbot, Grossman), and tried the route of #1 goalie (Bryzgalov) over flavour-of-the-month (Leighton, Boucher, Biron, Bobrovsky [at the time], etc.)

Sometimes, a trade is what makes the player figure it out.  LA is a great example because Richards never quite figured out his issues (out of the league within 4 seasons of that trade), but Carter is still chuggin' around today.

[MeanSeanBean]

Just now, Goal:thecup said:

I think I understand where you are coming from.

I also think a few of your suppositions do not hold.

e.g: we felt attacked by the overly-adamant and put up with it for a very long time with a considerable amount of respect; we might be expected to extract some good-humored ribbing in return. imo oc

e.g: without naming names, which would be improper, we are serving crow to those who know, who they are, and what they typed; in addition most have responded very well.

Nobody is downright pissed and rightfully so.

We are still all Canucks; regardless of the marketing of that phrase.  

This is not only a great day for people who wanted to keep JT, it is a great weekend for Canucks fans!

  

I don't know who they are, or what the typed. I don't really recall that part JT thread, it was huge so I likely missed large chunks. This thread was more digestible and interesting, so I have read through most of this one. I just called it how I saw this thread unfolding.

 

Again, sucks if you all felt like you did in the JT thread. Hockey debates are supposed to be for fun.

[-DLC-]

8 minutes ago, Wanless said:

With a full pressure line like mik mil and podz i could see that he would be much better at getting back as it would happen less. This line combo seens like they would be excellent at breaking up any flow and rhythm to the other team as well as grind out shifts in the offensive zone and create sloppy possession for the other team to cause lots of turnovers

 

I see them using their offensive pressure to be their defence 

I'm super stoked to see how Podz does this year...if he makes strides. He sits next to JT in the room and I'm sure he's building some confidence that I hope really shows out there on the ice. Petey and Brock too...they both were going through so much last year and I hope they have a huge bounceback year. Petey's put in the work from what I understand. 

How can you NOT be excited about this team/year? Even if our d needs work....just keep possession of the puck all the time and they won't have to be as involved. And Demko back there is always reassurance.

[Alflives]

11 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

I dont see any real toxic stuff. Thicken up your skins if you do, this is hockey. 

 

I mean, if anyone is worried about being wrong in the future just ask me for guidance. 

Put these little cuties on and it’s all good.

[-DLC-]

2 minutes ago, AV. said:

Sometimes, a trade is what makes the player figure it out.  LA is a great example because Richards never quite figured out his issues (out of the league within 4 seasons of that trade), but Carter is still chuggin' around today.

You're right...which seems to be the case with Miller here.

 

He loves that he's been given the opportunity to flourish and he's taken full advantage of that. Vancouver's given him the chance to show his stuff and take on a role that he's designed for.

 

So I'm pretty stoked that he's saved his best for this team.

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Wanless said:

With a full pressure line like mik mil and podz i could see that he would be much better at getting back as it would happen less. This line combo seens like they would be excellent at breaking up any flow and rhythm to the other team as well as grind out shifts in the offensive zone and create sloppy possession for the other team to cause lots of turnovers

 

I see them using their offensive pressure to be their defence 

Alf likes what you’re preaching.  Call Boudreau!  Let’s get that line (with Miller as the centre) making it no fun for top players to go against us. 

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

I'm super stoked to see how Podz does this year...if he makes strides. He sits next to JT in the room and I'm sure he's building some confidence that I hope really shows out there on the ice. Petey and Brock too...they both were going through so much last year and I hope they have a huge bounceback year. Petey's put in the work from what I understand. 

How can you NOT be excited about this team/year? Even if our d needs works....just keep possession of the puck all the time and they won't have to be as involved. And Demko back there is always reassurance.

We just suffered through the worst eight years of GMing in our club’s history.  Some of us fans are going through PTBD and need to seethe team winning and getting into the playoffs to recover.  Benning is still too fresh n our minds. 

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

You're right...which seems to be the case with Miller here.

 

He loves that he's been given the opportunity to flourish and he's taken full advantage of that. Vancouver's given him the chance to show his stuff and take on a role that he's designed for.

 

So I'm pretty stoked that he's saved his best for this team.

Actually, maybe the best role for Miller for us to become a true contender is as @Wanless suggests: the checking centre?  

[MeanSeanBean]

41 minutes ago, Wanless said:

I wont disagree with Pearson but i think he will be with Horvat and Garland to make a solid 2way line

 

Kuzmenko Petey Boeser as the primary scoring line with mainly offensive zone starts

I really like Podkolzin with Petey last year. And in my opinion Boeser is at his best with Petey. Pod would give that like a motor and someone to dig out pucks. I'd rather Pod digging out pucks for Boeser and Petey, then Petey digging out pucks for Kuz. 

 

I like Horvat with Garland as well, but would rather then playing with Mikheyev. That line seems like it would be a terror to play against. 

[-DLC-]

12 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:

I don't know who they are, or what the typed. I don't really recall that part JT thread, it was huge so I likely missed large chunks. This thread was more digestible and interesting, so I have read through most of this one. I just called it how I saw this thread unfolding.

 

Again, sucks if you all felt like you did in the JT thread. Hockey debates are supposed to be for fun.

And the other thing is, there comes a point in time to "let it go".  Those making the argument against JT were heard but he's here and it's a done deal. So, at some point, those of us elated over this have to have a place to celebrate it without a continuation of the same. Being challenged on it. Having to defend our stance and our happiness. 

 

 

[VegasCanuck]

So, we've got one year to trade him before his NMC kicks in..... Where's he going? 

 

 

 

 

Just being a S#!% disturber...

 

[canuck73_3]

21 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:

Baiting people is toxic online, in my opinion, and that is what I was referring to. The message I originally replied to of yours had nothing to do with Miller. It was just a call out trying to bait people back into an argument. That to me isn't a hockey debate, it's argument for the sake of argument.

 

 

No it’s pointing out that maybe don’t speak in absolutes when you are in no control of the situation. 

[aGENT]

3 hours ago, Mustard Tiger said:

Whats hard to grasp is how this crowd is convinced there is no progression slop. It's rebuild for a few years followed by cup contender. What do you really want a team to do who already drafted that sought after 1C 1D 1G? 5th youngest fwd group...

 

Need to understand 5 teams at most are real cup contenders. 5/32. North of 20 teams are playoff contenders. I'm not sure why only Vancouver fans think players can never have value nor be traded but that is a thing? We can do well and make the playoffs... We can trade one or two of our wingers to improve in the depth department. Making the show should for sure be the goal lol

 

Non the less, JR says they will "figure cap out next year"... meanwhile Miller's no trade doesn't kick in till July 1st. Could still get spicy 

I have seen very few people calling for a rebuild. So I don't remotely understand where that sentiment comes from. Certainly not me.

 

We have to finish this build. Same as we would with or without Miller.

 

Yes, exactly, it's very HARD to win a cup. And in the cap era, it's basically only been those top 5'ish teams who do win it. We're not presently one of those teams. Glad you agree we're not a contender presently.

 

Yes, we can (and likely will) trade one or two of our wingers for D. Likely packaged with a guy like Rathbone. And that's going to make for less depth, likely a lesser return, raise our average age, and save less cap. Those are the balances to be paid on the other side of that ledger. It's not all roses.

Edited September 5, 2022 by aGENT

[Fanuck]

18 minutes ago, Wanless said:

but the pro trade crowd approached the debate with such conviction and righteousness that this in and of itself created a toxic environment 

In my experience the debate was relentless on BOTH sides.  Neither camp was better or worse, neither need to be labeled as anything save for passionate. 

 

Now that the contract is signed,  many of the pro-trade folks have been on record saying while they may not agree,  they'll accept it and have moved on to examining how we improve from here, which is what I would hope we can all do.

[canuck73_3]

37 minutes ago, Wanless said:

As far as him giving up on plays i see that as him reading the play for what it is and realizing he cant change the outcome.

 

It looks a lot worse than it actually is and he generally picks up and check as he is on his way back

Not entirely true, there were many plays he could have made a difference and he just quit trying. He cleans that up though with better effort and he is definitely in the conversation. 

[DeNiro]

19 minutes ago, AV. said:

Yes, "some fans" because there obviously exists the possibility of at least one person who didn't like the deal.

Your claim of there being no direction is not substantiated:  https://www.broadstreethockey.com/2020/5/14/21258368/flyers-what-if-jeff-carter-mike-richards-only-trade-one-analysis-sean-couturier-for-selke
The Flyers needed to either continue with Carter and Richards and the team that won 18 playoff games in two years, or completely change directions. Due to the organization’s desire to try to find a solution at the goalie position, the cap crunch, and some off-ice antics, the Flyers chose the latter. Barring any drastic changes outside of Carter and Richards in the early 2010s, it looks like the Flyers made the right decision in the long run.
The execution failed around this plan, but to imply it was impulsive and directionless is incorrect.  They committed to a team built around Giroux and Pronger, tried to infuse it with youth (Simmonds, Voracek, Couturier, Read), added vets to support (Jagr, Talbot, Grossman), and tried the route of #1 goalie (Bryzgalov) over flavour-of-the-month (Leighton, Boucher, Biron, Bobrovsky [at the time], etc.)

Sometimes, a trade is what makes the player figure it out.  LA is a great example because Richards never quite figured out his issues (out of the league within 4 seasons of that trade), but Carter is still chuggin' around today.

Lol all opinion pieces.

 

In reality where we live Holmgren made a bad call and it cost them more chances at the cup. There’s no denying that it’s already been proven.

 

You continuing to try and prove otherwise with opinion articles isn’t proving anything.

[Goal:thecup]

36 minutes ago, Alflives said:

No he doesn’t.  Miller is a very good player, but (without us having the puck) transitioning to defence is a big weakness in his game.  He’s not fleet of foot, and does way too often get caught on the wrong side of the puck.  Not so much as Bo does, but (when playing a responsible game as a centre) just can’t happen so often.  

Agree.

He also sometimes decides to stay out, even if he's tired, and whether we score or not, this is not Selke hockey.

[Wanless]

14 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Actually, maybe the best role for Miller for us to become a true contender is as @Wanless suggests: the checking centre?  

Checking/Bergeron/Toews type centre

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, Goal:thecup said:

Agree.

He also sometimes decides to stay out, even if he's tired, and whether we score or not, this is not Selke hockey.

But with a new contract in place maybe Miller will accept the role (checking centre) needed for us to be better?