Unpopular opinion: Don't need top 10 defense to make the playoffs

[Pure961089]

47 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Our defense is average to below average with 2/3 of our right side set to expire this and next season, and no succesion plan in place to replace them. That's not "fine". And yes our team defense, forward support and systems play need improvement as well. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

 

I'm not the one with issues looking ahead. The key part being we actually need those "few changes" to not only actually happen, but work out better than not.

 

Yes, let's look at the 2% of generational players still producing in their mid 30's and ignore the 98% who's play falls off a cliff, almost like clockwork at +/-33. 

The proof will be in the pudding as they say.  You don’t need great defencemen if your team defence plays great.  We have some pretty good 2 way players.  Petey, Mikheyev, Pearson, Horvat, and even Podkolzin have shown a really solid 2 way 200 foot game.   It’s not all doom and gloom like you might think.  

[aGENT]

20 minutes ago, Baggins said:

I see them frequently. Perhaps you somewhat agree it's pointless making the playoffs without being a contender and thus don't notice it. I see making the playoffs as valuable experience and a stepping stone to contending.

I have never said making the playoffs is pointless. No team ever goes from rebuild to contender in one season. That's ridiculous.

 

But the "get in and see what happens" approach is not one I'm interested in as a goal either. And quite a few posters seem perfectly content with it, especially the OP. I see FAR more of those posters than people claiming we should "tank to contention" (like a team with Demko, Petey, hughes et al could "tank" anyway).

 

I likely don't notice it because it's an exceedingly rare level of stupidity.

[Baggins]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

I have never said making the playoffs is pointless. No team ever goes from rebuild to contender in one season. That's ridiculous.

 

But the "get in and see what happens" approach is not one I'm interested in as a goal either. And quite a few posters seem perfectly content with it, especially the OP. I see FAR more of those posters than people claiming we should "tank to contention" (like a team with Demko, Petey, hughes et al could "tank" anyway).

 

I likely don't notice it because it's an exceedingly rare level of stupidity.

I said "many". From my initial point on it hasn't been directed at you specifically. It's a sentiment I've seen often on this board though. In the my last I said you may "somewhat" beieve it and thus don't notice the sentiment as I do. I don't ever see making the playoffs as pointless.

[aGENT]

19 minutes ago, Pure961089 said:

The proof will be in the pudding as they say.  You don’t need great defencemen if your team defence plays great.  We have some pretty good 2 way players.  Petey, Mikheyev, Pearson, Horvat, and even Podkolzin have shown a really solid 2 way 200 foot game.   It’s not all doom and gloom like you might think.  

Who said I thought it was "doom and gloom"?

 

People having some really odd takes here lately.

 

We have a world class goalie, a deep, talented forward group, and two elite top 4 D. It's a (really) good start!  But if we want to be a contender though, we need likely two, top 4 (preferably righty) D, a legit 3c, and to backfill some prospect depth with REALLY good drafting/development and undrafted euro/college scouting.

 

There's a fair bit of work to be done! And preferably sooner than later so we can take advantage of Miller's few remaining prime years. So forgive me when I see OP's sentiment that "making the playoffs is good enough" or ignoring fixing those above issues and "just get in and see what happens" mentality, I get typing.

[DownUndaCanuck]

I don't think you need a top 10 defence to make the playoffs but you need a top 3 defenceman if not top 1 in the league to win the cup and a top 3-5 defence to do well in the playoffs.

 

We have a pretty average defence but Bruce's style plays to cover these gaps with good forechecking forwards to pressure (offence is a good offence?) and obviously a great goalie.

 

Moving Hughes to the right will be an interesting change up but we'll still have bad players compared to most defences. However, if we have loads of support from forwards and a top 5 goalie in the league then we can maybe squeak into the playoffs, but we'll never go deep or win a cup without a better defence.

[Gawdzukes]

3 hours ago, Pure961089 said:

Our Defence is fine.  It’s our team defence that needs work.  A more defensively responsible system is something Bruce will start implementing.  I keep mentioning Gudbranson.  Under a good team defensive system like Sutter’s Flames even Gudbranson can look good.  Thanks to Sutter’s team defence Gudbranson inked himself to a 16 million dollar contract.   Under Green Gudbranson was an Albatross.  
 

 Some people have the ability to see the potential of something  and can envision what a few changes will look like.  Like House flippers or interior designers, they look at a dump of a house and see beyond what’s there.  A little paint here a little elbow grease there, and presto, you’re looking at a brand new house worth so much more than what you paid.  Some people have zero vision and just can’t see beyond the here and now.  
 

Canucks JR and Allvin brought in so much talent, not so much players but visionaries.  People that can identify and develop talent. People that can see beyond the statistics.  They overhauled their player development and their strength and conditioning departments. The Canucks actually have a strategical philosophy.   Benning had no plan, his was the status quo that hadn’t been working for decades.  

Our defence is fine, Presto chango lol

 

 

Now all of the sudden our defence is awesome.

 

lol 

[Alflives]

OEL - Hughes

Dermott - Bear

Bone - Myers

Schenn

[Pure961089]

36 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Our defence is fine, Presto chango lol

 

 

Now all of the sudden our defence is awesome.

 

lol 

Sutter made Gudbranson look like magic lol. 

[Gawdzukes]

1 minute ago, Pure961089 said:

Sutter made Gudbranson look like magic lol. 

Yeah, it's easy. Realistically I expect a Cup this year or losing in the 7th game of the SCF, at the very least.

[Cromeslab]

Our defense is the conundrum.I hate this talk of windows of opportunity.Maybe Miller declines fast,maybe he beast modes to 35, maybe we gat a rookie or two that pinch in on ELC’s before he declines.Nothing is literal in building a contender in this cap world every team has a different path to success it takes alot of luck and some shrewd moves and being on the right path.I think we’re on that path but we need to make a few shrewd moves like any other team,even the so called contenders.

[KingRaj91]

Can someone explain to me how the Oilers are supposed to be much better than us? Yes they have Connor and Drai, but they don't have a great 3rd and 4th line, pretty below average defense and a goalie that didn't play too well on a much better Toronto team. Maybe I'm just being bullish on my hometown team but I think we have a good chance to win the division. 

[Cromeslab]

2 minutes ago, KingRaj91 said:

Can someone explain to me how the Oilers are supposed to be much better than us? Yes they have Connor and Drai, but they don't have a great 3rd and 4th line, pretty below average defense and a goalie that didn't play too well on a much better Toronto team. Maybe I'm just being bullish on my hometown team but I think we have a good chance to win the division. 

We have better defense all day but McD and Drais are the X factor aka front loaded team.

[KingRaj91]

1 minute ago, Cromeslab said:

We have better defense all day but McD and Drais are the X factor aka front loaded team.

Besides them, they literally have 2-3 good wingers. I think our offense (on paper) is miles ahead of them and most teams in the west, I mean, I could just be totally wrong though. Guess we'll have to wait and see. 

[stawns]

1 hour ago, KingRaj91 said:

Besides them, they literally have 2-3 good wingers. I think our offense (on paper) is miles ahead of them and most teams in the west, I mean, I could just be totally wrong though. Guess we'll have to wait and see. 

When you have two players like that, it doesn't matter.  The Canucks don't have anything close to them

[DeNiro]

7 minutes ago, stawns said:

When you have two players like that, it doesn't matter.  The Canucks don't have anything close to them

No one in the league does.

 

Depth wins cups though. They’ll never win with so much reliance on two players.

[EddieVedder]

1 hour ago, DeNiro said:

No one in the league does.

 

Depth wins cups though. They’ll never win with so much reliance on two players.

They have a lot more depth than you realize.   Theyll be able to run all 3 lines this year.  

[Cromeslab]

2 minutes ago, EddieVedder said:

They have a lot more depth than you realize.   Theyll be able to run all 3 lines this year.  

So will we

[Cromeslab]

Just now, Cromeslab said:

So will we

With better d imo

[Chris12345]

6 hours ago, aGENT said:

Yes, let's look at the 2% of generational players still producing in their mid 30's and ignore the 98% who's play falls off a cliff, almost like clockwork at +/-33. 

I love this.

 

I'm going to win the lottery because I know someone that did.....

 

Let's ignore the odds.

[iceman64]

6 hours ago, aGENT said:

Our defense is average to below average with 2/3 of our right side set to expire this and next season, and no succesion plan in place to replace them. That's not "fine". And yes our team defense, forward support and systems play need improvement as well. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

 

I'm not the one with issues looking ahead. The key part being we actually need those "few changes" to not only actually happen, but work out better than not.

 

Yes, let's look at the 2% of generational players still producing in their mid 30's and ignore the 98% who's play falls off a cliff, almost like clockwork at +/-33. 

So JT isn't that far off and he doesn't have a lengthy injury past and JT was in the top of the league last year and for game winning goals too.. the guy is a ultra fit sniper and plays with just as much intensity as Cros and Mal, THAT is what drives those top 10% guys. 

 No one can score 100 points in this league and not drop off that much, I knew someone would say that but like OV too who JT matched step for step in the last 2 seasons, if guys dropped off that bad as you say, there would be so many guys well over 30 doing great and it's more than 2% btw, pick anybody and he'll play to the end of the contract and easily still hit 50+ and that's being scrimpy on it.. 

 If we're both still on here by then it can be a running friendly bet no? 

 Friendly bet he doesn't have under a 50 point season all the way through to the end.. 

You down? 

Edited September 19, 2022 by iceman64