[Discussion] Do You Have the Stomach For a Rebuild?

[Solinar]

4 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I thought we covered this months ago. Jones is overpriced, overrated, with a steadily declining D game and has wing-nut political beliefs that have no place in Vancouver. 

 

NO

I agree.  Please don't handcuff us with more salary dead ends.  We are going to have to gamble a bit, but hopefully, with some insight.  Identify the player you want, and be able to swallow the price.  And know who you don't want or can't afford the cost of.  Make a freaking list!!!  Then start going out there and checking it off.  We need to deconstruct the roster, and put players in that are 'for the moment', 'possibles', and backbone purchases.  And that last one, is probably going to be more from the draft/develop side than not.  

  I would also like some skilled players that would be willing to go thru a wall to win, HATE to lose, and possibly in the murderous quotient from the competitive standard....  But you can't have too many of those, or the room goes ruthless.

[Solinar]

We are going to have to probably play out this season with....what we have.  The trick is to adapt and try play the best possible game that this team is structured for.  And...well, we're probably going to lose, more than we wish.  But, to establish competitiveness, and push back.  Go down to the room, and go, I'm not trading any of you, you're not getting a saviour, you're not getting out, and you have to figure it out together.  I see players quitting on each other, I see players quitting on the coaching, and I see players quitting on what we need to do, day in and day out, to win.  They got the last management group fired (that management group was out of touch and terrible, so, kudos), got their last coach fired because they went out and meh'd, and are working on trying to do the same here.  That isn't accountability, that is a one trick pony doing the same thing trying to get different results.  Enough.  You want out, you play better so we can do it.  You want to prove that you aren't the problem, time to show it.   Time to feel the pain!  Use it, and go out there and give it back to the other team.  

[Jack Gordon]

Well, I did sit through the last ten years of aimless ambling so I guess I'm pretty much up for anything.

[EddieVedder]

3 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

Honestly, Jim

 

I would trade Bo, for Seth Jones with some retention.

I want to see what this core can do with some balanced positions

 

Just one player can make so much difference.

IMO, Jones does that!

 

If that does not work

Then yes, a scorched earth rebuild.

 

 

Probably the worst proposal ive ever seen on the board.  Jones is one of the most overpaid and uninspired players in hockey.

[Pickly]

Should have rebuilt years ago but at this point, with interest around the team is waning and fans at their breaking point, what’s another 5-6 years of the same sh*t? It’s crystal clear that ownership is to blame and clearly doesn’t want a full on rebuild.

[Angry Goose]

Seriously tho, this TDL is hopefully when things start getting interesting. 

 

 

[J.I.A.H.N]

@aGENT

@Solinar

@EddieVedder

 

Well guys. Yes Seth Jones is over paid. No argument. But!

 

There are 32 1st pairing RHD in the league...............................Seth Jones is Chicago's 1st pairing RHD. He plays 25 minutes a game, 3rd amongst all RHD. Plays PP and PK for Chicago. He is 6'4 and 209 lbs.

 

Now, I don't want to point at you 3, but there are many on these boards that do not see the Value of Tyler Myers, but he is noticeable when not there, and not in a good way, yet many on here see no value.

 

On HF Boards, when it was suggested by me that a Miller swap was available, they said that he plays a very good none event game as the Number 1 Dman in Chicago. Is he the big point getter? No, but there has to be a reason he has the number 3 overall RHD minutes in the whole NHL.

 

I suggest you are looking at his price tag. Chicago is a better team than us, with half the horses.................I could be wrong, but maybe you are? I would suggest as the Cap goes up, that his terrible contract will look better.

 

[coolboarder]

Yes, I can stomach if they can overhaul the defense to become their strength and take a run for it.  Scoring is not the issue but blown leads is on a road trip is affecting the team's morale.  They were so dejected at end of Minnesota game that it snowballed ever since when they arrived home.  It takes a while to get over this.  If I had to choose, I'd trade Horvat since Miller has taken his spot in term of salary.  Miller is still tradable if he keeps this scoring pace up, he had two goals yesterday.  

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

@aGENT

@Solinar

@EddieVedder

 

Well guys. Yes Seth Jones is over paid. No argument. But!

 

There are 32 1st pairing RHD in the league...............................Seth Jones is Chicago's 1st pairing RHD. He plays 25 minutes a game, 3rd amongst all RHD. Plays PP and PK for Chicago. He is 6'4 and 209 lbs.

 

Now, I don't want to point at you 3, but there are many on these boards that do not see the Value of Tyler Myers, but he is noticeable when not there, and not in a good way, yet many on here see no value.

 

On HF Boards, when it was suggested by me that a Miller swap was available, they said that he plays a very good none event game as the Number 1 Dman in Chicago. Is he the big point getter? No, but there has to be a reason he has the number 3 overall RHD minutes in the whole NHL.

 

I suggest you are looking at his price tag. Chicago is a better team than us, with half the horses.................I could be wrong, but maybe you are? I would suggest as the Cap goes up, that his terrible contract will look better.

 

Nope. Overrated, over paid, declining defensive game, whack-a-doo political beliefs.

 

 

You're a bad person for wanting him here. Repeatedly! 

 

[EP Phone Home]

Yes I would. I have been ready for

one for as long as the Sedins have been retired. We have 3 core pieces to build around. But that’s not nearly enough. We need 3-5 young blue chip D men because we only have one that’s under 24 that can play in our top 4. It’s a sad state that management has neglected.
 

As OP has said on many occasions, START DRAFTING RD! We are so pathetic when it comes to this. You either have to overpay in FA or trade major assets to get them on your team.
 

 

So tired of us not addressing this issue but if we actually kept our 2nd rounders, accumulated more picks (something we never do) then we can speed up the process and it would be a rebuild. We have never done so in the almost 20 years that Francisco has owned

the team. 
 

 

This is my big concern about this topic. It’s not the fanbase that cannot stomach a rebuild but it’s the ownership. It always has been. Since he has taken ownership of this team he has had the best years (and competitive window as the OP has stated) in franchise history. So of course he wants to continue with that sellout streak in those times, non stop playoff revenue and top 10 franchise value.
 

But all teams need to go through the pain of a true rebuild and until ownership can look in the mirror and admit that Trevor was right and we need a proper build, then we are just doomed to repeat the same mistakes from the last 10 years. Fans will put up with a rebuild because it gives us hope and direction. Fans will no longer put up with this mediocre mushy middle shit anymore. It’s time to break the chain and embrace the pain the right way. 
 

I get a laugh when people say that draft picks are magic beans, and you look at the teams that accumulated a bunch of them and now are a beanstalk rising up standings past us that’s “retooling on the fly” but hey magic beans. We are too good for those apparently. 

Edited October 26, 2022 by EP Phone Home

[J.I.A.H.N]

Just now, aGENT said:

Nope. Overrated, over paid, declining defensive game, whack-a-doo political beliefs.

 

 

You're a bad person for wanting him here. Repeatedly! 

 

I could give a rats behind what his political beliefs are. All too often you guys don't want........Evander Kane, or Anthony DeAngelo, or a number of other real Aholes..............for FK sakes, Bobby Orr likes Trump.............would you take him?

 

You offer no fact, just opinion based on what? He plays 25 minutes a game, explain that!

[NucksCelts]

I just want to witness a cup before I die. I probably have about 40 years left. If they don’t manage to go on some kind of epic streak here to make up for the start to this season I would be game for a full on rebuild. 

[aGENT]

15 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

I could give a rats behind what his political beliefs are. All too often you guys don't want........Evander Kane, or Anthony DeAngelo, or a number of other real Aholes..............for FK sakes, Bobby Orr likes Trump.............would you take him?

 

You offer no fact, just opinion based on what? He plays 25 minutes a game, explain that!

They're a crappy rebuilding team. Somebody has to.

 

I have no problem with guys who are a pain to play against. Another Burrows? Absolutely. Iginla 2.0? Yes please. Forsberg? Can we have two?!

 

What we don't need is an asshat coming in and disrupting an already shaky locker room.

 

Especially one who's not even that good.

Edited October 26, 2022 by aGENT

[J.I.A.H.N]

33 minutes ago, aGENT said:

They're a crappy rebuilding team. Somebody has to.

 

I have no problem with guys who are a pain to play against. Another Burrows? Absolutely. Iginla 2.0? Yes please. Forsberg? Can we have two?!

 

What we don't need is an asshat coming in and disrupting an already shaky locker room.

 

Especially one who's not even that good.

Sorry aGent, we are just on different pages...........

 

I don't mind being convinced or proven wrong

 

But give me facts

[HighOnHockey]

1 hour ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

I could give a rats behind what his political beliefs are. All too often you guys don't want........Evander Kane, or Anthony DeAngelo, or a number of other real Aholes..............for FK sakes, Bobby Orr likes Trump.............would you take him?

 

You offer no fact, just opinion based on what? He plays 25 minutes a game, explain that!

This is the hardest I've ever agreed with you. All of it. Jones, Kane, DeAngelo. Would love to have any of them on my team.

[shiznak]

On 10/24/2022 at 5:57 PM, Bure_Pavel said:

Hughes and Petey are 23, they would not need to be traded for a rebuild.

Pettersson is only signed for 2 more years. He’ll be 26 when his contract ends, amidst in our rebuild. I highly doubt he wants to be on a rebuilding team, when he was adamant about playing for a winner, during his contract talks a season ago. 
 

[HighOnHockey]

1 hour ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

@aGENT

@Solinar

@EddieVedder

 

Well guys. Yes Seth Jones is over paid. No argument. But!

 

There are 32 1st pairing RHD in the league...............................Seth Jones is Chicago's 1st pairing RHD. He plays 25 minutes a game, 3rd amongst all RHD. Plays PP and PK for Chicago. He is 6'4 and 209 lbs.

 

Now, I don't want to point at you 3, but there are many on these boards that do not see the Value of Tyler Myers, but he is noticeable when not there, and not in a good way, yet many on here see no value.

 

On HF Boards, when it was suggested by me that a Miller swap was available, they said that he plays a very good none event game as the Number 1 Dman in Chicago. Is he the big point getter? No, but there has to be a reason he has the number 3 overall RHD minutes in the whole NHL.

 

I suggest you are looking at his price tag. Chicago is a better team than us, with half the horses.................I could be wrong, but maybe you are? I would suggest as the Cap goes up, that his terrible contract will look better.

 

 

I also don't think we should so readily concede Jones is over-paid. I mean, I guess he is, but barely. By about 750k. A few of the defensemen around the league making around the same or more than Jones: Erik Karlsson, Darnell Nurse, Dougie Hamilton... Dougie Hamilton for Chrissake!

 

And regarding the argument that he only plays 25 minutes per game because of a crappy rebuilding team, he was playing 25 minutes a game on a competitive Blue Jackets team also.

[J.I.A.H.N]

30 minutes ago, HighOnHockey said:

 

I also don't think we should so readily concede Jones is over-paid. I mean, I guess he is, but barely. By about 750k. A few of the defensemen around the league making around the same or more than Jones: Erik Karlsson, Darnell Nurse, Dougie Hamilton... Dougie Hamilton for Chrissake!

 

And regarding the argument that he only plays 25 minutes per game because of a crappy rebuilding team, he was playing 25 minutes a game on a competitive Blue Jackets team also.

Thanks for the support HonH......welcome to the dark side! lol

I wrestle with the Jones idea for along time before getting on board

The fact is, we need a RHD that is above average and can take some of the heat off of Hughes

If we can't, we will never come out of this middle earth type of rebuild that we have been in for the 8 years (don't know why JR thinks we might need to rebuild on the fly, that is what we have been doing)

We are not complete enough, and no one will give me a satisfactory answer, as in how we fix it, especially with the cap restraints we have

 

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by J.I.A.H.N

[spook007]

What would be really interesting here, is to hear from season ticket holders, or people who attend games regularly. 
 

Would they still be season ticket holders,  attend the same number of games they are now, should Caucks go into a total rebuild?

 

Anyone?

Edited October 26, 2022 by spook007

[Mike Vanderhoek]

15 minutes ago, spook007 said:

What would be really interesting here, is to hear from season ticket holders, or people who attend games regularly. 
 

Would they still be season ticket holders,  attend the same number of games they are now, should Caucks go into a total rebuild?

 

Anyone?

Whats the difference? The past 10 years have been worse than a rebuild. At least a proper tear it down build it up rebuild would give fans a vision and direction the team is going in.