Miller now (tied) as 17th Worst +/- player in the entire NHL - out of 825

[lmm]

2 minutes ago, Bure2Win said:

One of his teammates needs to tell him to smarten up and play proper hockey with effort and determination and stop the pouting and being lazy every play like a little b@tch !  After they do that they can go and put Myers, ELO, Studnicka, Stillman, and Poolman on a slow boat to China.

and by team mates you mean Horvat, Schenn, OEL and Myers?

 

if Schenn did it, it probably turns out like Bieksa and Federov

Edited January 3, 2023 by lmm

[RU SERIOUS]

3 minutes ago, Bure2Win said:

One of his teammates needs to tell him to smarten up and play proper hockey with effort and determination and stop the pouting and being lazy every play like a little b@tch !  After they do that they can go and put Myers, ELO, Studnicka, Stillman, and Poolman on a slow boat to China.

I Volunteer to push that barge out to sea 

[OldFaithfulCap]

1 hour ago, MNaslund?? said:

It’s definitely not going to be easy for him to speak out, but it’s the right thing to do.  He has the potential to have a truthful impact on the brainwashed Russians.  It’s easier to shut your mouth and make millions in North America  while you pose with Putin on instagram.  I hope he gets his little goal scoring record but I don’t respect him, I might be a nobody but ovechkin is just a hockey player. Just my opinion. 
 

I just think its not as easy when a dictator runs your country and has spies everywhere. They injected that guy in his testicles. 
 

I do see your point but its hard to know where to draw the line. By the way, pavel bure was a putin fan..

 

 

Multiple notable Russians joined Ovechkin's 'PutinTeam', including hockey players like Pittsburgh Penguins center Evgeni Malkin and now-retired stars Pavel Bure and Ilya Kovalchuk.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-11583027/amp/Alex-Ovechkins-continued-support-Vladimir-Putin-complicates-legacy-one-hockeys-greats.html

[BMorrison 7]

17 minutes ago, OldFaithfulCap said:

I just think its not as easy when a dictator runs your country and has spies everywhere. They injected that guy in his testicles. 
 

I do see your point but its hard to know where to draw the line. By the way, pavel bure was a putin fan..

 

 

Multiple notable Russians joined Ovechkin's 'PutinTeam', including hockey players like Pittsburgh Penguins center Evgeni Malkin and now-retired stars Pavel Bure and Ilya Kovalchuk.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-11583027/amp/Alex-Ovechkins-continued-support-Vladimir-Putin-complicates-legacy-one-hockeys-greats.html

I’m just really passionate about supporting Ukraine.  And I feel the same way about anyone who takes the  Russian side in this absolutely appalling war, and that is no respect.  To me, the Nazis and the German people were just taking orders from Hitler and they had to be reminded of the travesty’s their country inflected on the world.  It’s the exact same mindset with the Russians today and WW2 wasn’t that long ago.  Humans haven’t evolved at all.  Thank you for your reply, I’m just really passionate about this sort of stuff.  

 

[BMorrison 7]

11 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

We are not loyal to players....

 

We let so many defenceman walkway for free.  Ohlund, Ehrhoff, Mitchell, Salo, Hamhuis, Tanev, Stecher... how were we loyal to them...?

I was thinking more that we could have traded certain players before it was to late.  The Canucks should of rebuild regardless if the Sedins were here or not.  We should of traded Virtanen way earlier in his career and Miller should have been traded at the deadline. Boesor is someone who should of definitely been traded at this point with his value decreasing every year. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by MNaslund??

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

13 minutes ago, MNaslund?? said:

I was thinking more that we could have traded certain players before it was to late.  The Canucks should of rebuild regardless if the Sedins were here or not.  We should of traded Virtanen way earlier in his career and Miller should have been traded at the deadline. Boesor is someone who should of definitely been traded at this point with his value decreasing every year. 

I see what you mean.  That's the sunk cost fallacy, where it's better to abandon an investment but you're not willing to because of what you've already put into it.  When it came to the Canucks, this wasn't coming from a place of loyalty - it was coming from an unwillingness to admit mistakes.  Especially with Virtanen and Juolevi, Benning knew that trading them away meant he made the wrong draft decision (as if we already didn't know that).  

[OldFaithfulCap]

I hope miller somehow does this

 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by OldFaithfulCap
s

[stuman491]

On 1/1/2023 at 11:49 PM, Ghostsof1915 said:

How? Mantha for him and hopefully a 1st rounder?

At this point I'd be happy with a bag of pucks for Miller. I don't care about losing an "asset" for nothing. I'd argue at this point that he is a negative asset to the team. 

[PhillipBlunt]

JT Yeller.

[Sativika]

15 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

I see what you mean.  That's the sunk cost fallacy, where it's better to abandon an investment but you're not willing to because of what you've already put into it.  When it came to the Canucks, this wasn't coming from a place of loyalty - it was coming from an unwillingness to admit mistakes.  Especially with Virtanen and Juolevi, Benning knew that trading them away meant he made the wrong draft decision (as if we already didn't know that).  

I get that. But it seems we hang on longer than most. Well.....since the JB regime and a bit before. Examples of hanging' on too long.....Baertschi, Goldobin, Gaunce, Hutton, Gaudette, to name a few in addition to Virts and OJ. And may I add that we traded the wrong guy in Jared McCaan. Ya' can't have too many good centres! Anywho.....

 

Regarding your last sentence. Ego gets the best of us. To admit to failure or mistakes is something some peeps can't handle well, and then they compensate by other actions. In my experience, lying or placing the blame on another person/factor to not lose face or whatever. In professional team sports? I guess you try your damnedest to correct the matter. And in the case of Virus and OJ well, I needn't say more.

 

I know which what we have now is a recipe for mediocrity. Are we glass 1/2 full, or are we 1/2 empty. Whatever way ya' choose to look at it.......we're in the grey area of good/not so good. MEDIOCRITY!

 

Yea. It was mentioned in another thread of letting everyone, save for Petey, Huggy, and Demmer go, and let the youngens play on the big team. Certainly would be an honourable thing to do, but we'd definitely be in the "beatable team" category for a bit. I dunno........I guess it's easier to handle than being in that category with overpaid older dudes!

(Older meaning older than 25yrs. old)

 

 

[TGT68]

I just want to know when this 'new' regime is going to 'deal' with the issues.  

 

Personally feel they dropped the ball not trading Miller last year.  

 

Add to that how that effected the Horvat situation and what looks like the need to trade our captain and a truly valuable player who they should have signed last summer.  

 

If they can't get the job done they need to go and yesterday.  My dog could do a better job of getting the job done. 

 

[XxNaslundxX]

Remember 10 months ago when everyone thought miller was worth a first and two prospects? 

 

Now, he might actually have negative value in a trade. Mainly due to his lack of effort in backchecking/defending, rumors he isn't a good guy in the dressing room, and his emotional fits on the ice. 

 

What team would give up a top grade prospect now for him? And a first? Not happening. Doing that would be even more dumb than signing him for 8 years. 

 

If miller is traded now its for someone else not performing up to par with cap. Tough reality but it should be considered.  

[DSVII]

2 hours ago, XxNaslundxX said:

Remember 10 months ago when everyone thought miller was worth a first and two prospects? 

 

Now, he might actually have negative value in a trade. Mainly due to his lack of effort in backchecking/defending, rumors he isn't a good guy in the dressing room, and his emotional fits on the ice. 

 

What team would give up a top grade prospect now for him? And a first? Not happening. Doing that would be even more dumb than signing him for 8 years. 

 

If miller is traded now its for someone else not performing up to par with cap. Tough reality but it should be considered.  

At this point the value we want is the 8 mill for the next 7 years. That's worth 7 first rounders to me when factoring in the cost of paying to dump cap in today's market.

 

 

[Viper007]

I'm going to take a glass half full approach to this one.  Has JT played to his current contract.  I'd actually say yes he has.  If he plays like this next year when his new contract kicks in, then I might be concerned more.  People need to stay in the present instead of looking towards the future sometimes.

[beni]

On 1/2/2023 at 3:43 PM, Bure2Win said:

https://canucksarmy.com/news/the-stanchies-talk-jt-millers-performance-canucks-loss-flames

 

That to me looks like someone who has no desire to be here. 

[Junkyard Dog]

 

[Warhippy]

For teams that can pick up Miller this year vs next year

 

There are plenty of teams with minimal roster spots and plenty of cap space that could take him without moving anything for 23/24 when his $8 million kicks in.

 

This year is a bit more of an outlier as currently only 14 teams in the entire league have any available cap space. That being said, he is also as of today only worth $2.9 million if traded based on his current contract of $5.25 million pro-rated.

 

Of the teams that have the cap space to fit him at 3 million only 5 would have the cap space to retain him in to next season without making moves; those being the Coyotes, Sabres, Ducks, Hawks and Wings.

 

2022/2023: NHL 2022 https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/cap/

 

Starting for 2023/2024 when his $8 million cap would kick in, the following teams would be able to fit him without any changes at all.

 

2023/2024: NHL 2023 https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/cap/2023/

 

Blackhawks, 12/23 roster spots $45 million in cap space

Ducks, 14/24 roster spots $42 million in cap space

Red Wings, 13/23 roster spots $41 million in cap space

Coyotes, 15/23 roster spots $38 million in cap space

Sabres, 15/23 roster spots #32 million in cap space

 

When we look at teams able to make moves of $3 million or less that would fit him in, that list triples to 15 total teams that could fit Miller in next year. This is a damned strange year for teams regarding cap space because when you look at the numbers, as of RIGHT now only 14 total teams have any non LTIR cap space and of those teams, 7 of those teams have less than 2 million with an 8th having less than $3 million. Meaning more than half of the entire league has literally zero cap space to work with right now to make any level of moves including waiver pick ups.

[DownUndaCanuck]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

For teams that can pick up Miller this year vs next year

 

There are plenty of teams with minimal roster spots and plenty of cap space that could take him without moving anything for 23/24 when his $8 million kicks in.

 

This year is a bit more of an outlier as currently only 14 teams in the entire league have any available cap space. That being said, he is also as of today only worth $2.9 million if traded based on his current contract of $5.25 million pro-rated.

 

Of the teams that have the cap space to fit him at 3 million only 5 would have the cap space to retain him in to next season without making moves; those being the Coyotes, Sabres, Ducks, Hawks and Wings.

 

2022/2023: NHL 2022 https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/cap/

 

Starting for 2023/2024 when his $8 million cap would kick in, the following teams would be able to fit him without any changes at all.

 

2023/2024: NHL 2023 https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/cap/2023/

 

Blackhawks, 12/23 roster spots $45 million in cap space

Ducks, 14/24 roster spots $42 million in cap space

Red Wings, 13/23 roster spots $41 million in cap space

Coyotes, 15/23 roster spots $38 million in cap space

Sabres, 15/23 roster spots #32 million in cap space

 

When we look at teams able to make moves of $3 million or less that would fit him in, that list triples to 15 total teams that could fit Miller in next year. This is a damned strange year for teams regarding cap space because when you look at the numbers, as of RIGHT now only 14 total teams have any non LTIR cap space and of those teams, 7 of those teams have less than 2 million with an 8th having less than $3 million. Meaning more than half of the entire league has literally zero cap space to work with right now to make any level of moves including waiver pick ups.

I think we have to try and move him, there are teams out there who could send us a cap dump of 5M or so back and maybe we get a good prospect/pick out of it too. It's hard to guess what the league think of Miller now. On CDC everyone hates him, I'd almost say he is becoming an LE-like cap dump player, especially if it means we can sign Bo to that money.

 

My biggest worry is that this management won't dare trade him after signing him to a massive extension - that just admits defeat. I think JR is going to go down with this ship.

[RU SERIOUS]

2 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I think we have to try and move him, there are teams out there who could send us a cap dump of 5M or so back and maybe we get a good prospect/pick out of it too. It's hard to guess what the league think of Miller now. On CDC everyone hates him, I'd almost say he is becoming an LE-like cap dump player, especially if it means we can sign Bo to that money.

 

My biggest worry is that this management won't dare trade him after signing him to a massive extension - that just admits defeat. I think JR is going to go down with this ship.

I think you're right!   You just have to read about the mess JR left behind in Pittsburg ( https://thehockeywriters.com/penguins-rutherford-poor-decision-making-effects/ ) to realize what we're possibly in store for - let alone he's so old that it's unlikely he'll be around for long and likely doesn't care.     **Take note that this article is written by the Hockey Writers association which speaks volumes.   

 

Hiring JR is all on Aqua-Lini !

Edited January 4, 2023 by RU SERIOUS

[TGT68]

The issue I see is a lack of foreword thinking from future management. Miller has been a small attitude issue prior to this season. Sign him to money that should go to Bo, increase Miller's ego, add resentment from Bo (towards management) amd here we are now.  

 

This is not what was here before the current regime.  This is what they did to make the situation worse.