[Report - LeBrun] Canucks will try to re-sign Andrei Kuzmenko as trade interest grows

[HorvatToBaertschi]

1 minute ago, spook007 said:

Well if we are starting to worry about whether 26 year old goal scorers can sustain their production for another 3-4, we won't ever be able to sign anyone.

Any player comes with a risk, but a 26 year old player, who is on pace for 30 goals in his first season on North American ice, I would think was a good bet to continue producing.

 

Absolutely right that he saw us as an opportunity to show cases himself, and good for him. He is in our hand just now, so we get to decide whether to trade of keep. Doesn't get much better than that. Either one is a win... except if the keep him to offseason and he walks... Then PA should be fired on the spot. Same with regards to Bo.

I think that his chemistry with Pettersson and Mikheyev, along with his distribution skills on PP1 (which we don't use enough), are enough to warrant a nice 3*6 type bridge.

Also, Russians bring value to us now that we have Podkolzin and Klimovich (I know he's not Russian but he speaks the language) developing in Abbotsford. 

[Alflives]

14 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

Do you want to try and think at how much Chicago regrets trading Panarin?

Was Panarin going to stay in Chicago though?  It's CBJ who regrets letting Panarin leave for nothing. 

[spook007]

46 minutes ago, erkayloomeh said:

I thought AK s agent already stated they won't negotiate till the end of the season? 

Then he is gone... Can not risk losing him for nowt...

[EdgarM]

3 hours ago, Drakrami said:

Now I dont know what to make out of this... it is kind of funny.. 

 

Miller: Try to sign; if can't, trade. 

Horvat: Try to sign; if can't, trade. 

Kuzmenko: Try to sign; if cant, trade. 

 

Not sure I am liking this management's direction, which is basically directionless. Goes step by step, leaves everything by chance. Takes what is given to them instead of being the decider. 

I actually think this is what we should be doing to be honest. First, we had the NTC's which handcuffed us for years, now we have these 7-8 year contracts which again, handcuff us down the road. 

We have had generations of players basically playing for paychecks and no real desire to win a championship. 

I personally like Kuz as he is a player who is entertaining and does have chemistry with Petey. This does not happen often and we should be taking advantage of that, but, we also don't want another Boeser contract on our hands either. 

Its probably best for him and the team to sign him to a short "show me" contract in which we see if he can keep up with his scoring pace and if the chemistry with Petey continues.

He is going to be able to showcase his talents with Petey so I don't see why he would not want to agree to a short "show me" contract.

A win/win for both player and team IMHO.

If after he is assessed and an accurate evaluation is attained as to his value, offer him a fair contract and if he disagrees, trade him for assets or for a need on the team.

Continue this until we have players on fair market contracts which can be moved down the road if need be. We may lose some good players in this process , but at least we will have the type of player who will want to work every night and not just be here for the paycheck.

This may be one of our biggest downfalls and may explain why we have never won a Cup in our entire existence.

[spook007]

1 minute ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

I think that his chemistry with Pettersson and Mikheyev, along with his distribution skills on PP1 (which we don't use enough), are enough to warrant a nice 3*6 type bridge.

Also, Russians bring value to us now that we have Podkolzin and Klimovich (I know he's not Russian but he speaks the language) developing in Abbotsford. 

I'd love to see him stay...

Things have to be altered on the team, as we are not going anywhere at present. 

He could be part of a great 1st line with Petey, and they are around same time line, so yes please... They do have chemistry.

 

But, regardless of whatever they think, it will be unacceptable to lose either Kuz or Bo for free in the summer, just because they maybe want to stay... Together with Petey and QH those are the trade chips of real value...

 

I do believe he is happy here, and think he was supposed to be friends with Mika (not sure), and with Podz and Kim potentially coming up as well, they have their own little enclave on the team... 

 

Finally again, a lot depends on whether they can send Boeser and?or Garland out as well as maybe Myers and Pearson... If they can't the money isn't available to sign either of the 2 players.... Unfortunately that may lower the value, as other teams can see the pickle Canucks are in now... the joy of no cap space...

[billabong]

5 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I’m pretty sure we could trade Pearson with $1.4 million in retention so we don’t need to buy him out. 

That would be the most ideal situation but our owner has shown zero interest in doing that for some reason while buyouts are totally cool 

[mll]

7 minutes ago, billabong said:

That would be the most ideal situation but our owner has shown zero interest in doing that for some reason while buyouts are totally cool 

Can't buy out an injured player.  Pearson might not be healthy by the buyout window with news of his 2nd hand surgery.  He's only eligible for the 1st window which runs from circa 15 June (depends on the finals) to 30 June.  

[CanucksJay]

2 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

lol ppl complaining this is too high that is too high he's not worth he only had 1 year to show etc blah blah blah.. he needs to look no further than his fellow countryman Kaprizov. 1 year 51 point 55 games turned into a 9mil x 5 years.. not saying he's worth 9mil.. but the precedence have been set for players in and around his age group.. he's literally producing at the same rate as kaprizov in his first year.. and kaprizov end up getting paid every penny.. so the he haven't even shown he can do this for multiple years won't fly.. he's done it for couple years in the KHL albeit lesser league.. but he didn't miss a beat so far in the NHL. if he signs a 1 or 2 years? it'll easily be north of 6mil.. panarin after 2 season went straight to a 6mil and then ufa. 6mil then is like 7-8mil now. if the canucks think they can get him on a short value contract good luck. he'd already given that this year except the team is a total mess and didn't take advantage of it. love to keep kuz but i don't think they have time to deal with JR and his lowball tactics so they end up trading him. looking into the lineup next season if we lose bo kuz maybe boeser and or garland? that's almost 45% of our total goals this year.. where is the offence going to come from.. podkolzin and hoglander combined for 3 goals.. and 2 more players ain't going to replace the other chunk which would rank us near last in offence with chicago.. fun time ahead.

Our 2 biggest trade chips are Bo and Kuz. 

If we trade them both, can you see Boeser in Bo's bumper position on the PP next year? 

He's got a lethal shot and is great at tip ins and decent size where he won't be knocked off his skates easily. (doesn't win board battles but all we need him to do is find the soft spot in the slot) 

In fantasy football, it's not necessarily the best players that score high / has value... Its about drafting guys that get a lot of opportunities on their team (touches) 

This year. Bo and Kuz got a lot of touches. They increased their value and then we trade them. 

Next year we do that with Boeser. If he's scoring at a 30 goal pace by getting ice time with Petey and PP1 bumper duties, we can trade him at the deadline for a big haul. (some fans might want to keep him at that point but that's an absolute no) 

I would say the same about OEL but Hughes is just too good to not play on PP1. 

Completely thinking outside the box, one could consider trading Hughes for a massive haul top tier C and a top tier D prospect and then slot OEL into PP1. 

So theoretically our team looks like ass next year. 

Boeser comes back,

Trade Miller before his ntc kicks in

Losing Horvat, Kuz and Hughes 

 

However we load up on picks and prospects and then sell Boeser and whoever else we couldn't trade next deadline once they increase their value. 

 

Its a 2 year process to get rid of all the unwanted cap (Myers, Boeser, Pearson, Garland) but this would be the way to maximize returns in 2 years. 

 

When considering all of this, it really sucks that we traded a second for Stillman what a bone headed move. 

 

 

 

[MeanSeanBean]

The more I think about this, the more I become ok with a bridge deal. 1-2 years, 5 or 6 million. If we fizzles, we're out in a couple years. If he works well we have the option to re-sign him for another handful of years to try to compete. If he absolutely blows up and is looking at a 7 or 8 million contract, we can trade him at the deadline for a even bigger haul then now since he'd be a proven asset. 

 

I still think our best time to cash in on him is now, but I can see the world where a bridge deal is even more beneficial. I don't know if signing him for a 6x5 or whatever is a good idea. My Spidey sense says that could bite us allocating more cap to the wings.

[Elias Pettersson]

2 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

lol ppl complaining this is too high that is too high he's not worth he only had 1 year to show etc blah blah blah.. he needs to look no further than his fellow countryman Kaprizov. 1 year 51 point 55 games turned into a 9mil x 5 years.. not saying he's worth 9mil.. but the precedence have been set for players in and around his age group.. he's literally producing at the same rate as kaprizov in his first year.. and kaprizov end up getting paid every penny.. so the he haven't even shown he can do this for multiple years won't fly.. he's done it for couple years in the KHL albeit lesser league.. but he didn't miss a beat so far in the NHL. if he signs a 1 or 2 years? it'll easily be north of 6mil.. panarin after 2 season went straight to a 6mil and then ufa. 6mil then is like 7-8mil now. if the canucks think they can get him on a short value contract good luck. he'd already given that this year except the team is a total mess and didn't take advantage of it. love to keep kuz but i don't think they have time to deal with JR and his lowball tactics so they end up trading him. looking into the lineup next season if we lose bo kuz maybe boeser and or garland? that's almost 45% of our total goals this year.. where is the offence going to come from.. podkolzin and hoglander combined for 3 goals.. and 2 more players ain't going to replace the other chunk which would rank us near last in offence with chicago.. fun time ahead.

If we are trading both Horvat and Kuzmenko then we are looking at a full rebuild.  Yes, fun times ahead.  Apparently, CDC thinks we will be fine though, fans won't revolt or throw jerseys on the ice or stop buying seasons tickets.  They will just sit quiet and take it up the b*tt hole and keep buying those tickets for the next 5 years while we stealth tank our way to a cup by 2030...

[Harold Drunken]

13 hours ago, Dazzle said:

Unfortunately, this means that something's gotta go. One of: Garland, Boeser, and/or Pearson will have to be traded.

I would say "fortunately" someone's gotta go, as offloading any of those three would be a positive...wouldn't it?

[Harold Drunken]

8 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

If we are trading both Horvat and Kuzmenko then we are looking at a full rebuild.  Yes, fun times ahead.  Apparently, CDC thinks we will be fine though, fans won't revolt or throw jerseys on the ice or stop buying seasons tickets.  They will just sit quiet and take it up the b*tt hole and keep buying those tickets for the next 5 years while we stealth tank our way to a cup by 2030...

I would gladly wait 7 years if it meant we would actually win a cup or have a legit chance to....wouldn't you? We've already been bad for a decade lol

 

What's your solution to all of this? Keep doing the same thing for another 10 years and expecting different results?  Keep trying to re-tool on the go while trading picks and prospects for players in their 30's that may help up play meaningful games in March while picking outside the top 10 every year because we had a late season push to just miss the playoffs and spend to the cap so we have no real way to improve the team when we need to?

Edited January 12, 2023 by Harold Drunken

[CanucksJay]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

If we are trading both Horvat and Kuzmenko then we are looking at a full rebuild.  Yes, fun times ahead.  Apparently, CDC thinks we will be fine though, fans won't revolt or throw jerseys on the ice or stop buying seasons tickets.  They will just sit quiet and take it up the b*tt hole and keep buying those tickets for the next 5 years while we stealth tank our way to a cup by 2030...

I think the timeframe of a rebuild depends on what assets we get in return. 

If we trade them for current blue chip draft+2 players on the cusp of making it full time, we could be in playoff contention in 2-3 years. 

Losing Horvat and kuz doesn't mean their production just falls into a black hole. Other players like Boeser, Garland will get PP1 time and increase their production. 

Yes we would be terrible next year but 5 years might be like worst case scenario where we only get draft picks in return and then we draft them and wait 5 years for them to be productive. 

 

 

[CanucksJay]

1 hour ago, NUCKER67 said:

This just sounds like they'll be saying "We ran out of time", after they fail to re-sign Bo and Kuz or trade them at the TDL. This management group doesn't appear to be competent to handle the task at hand.

Im willing to give them a chance until tdl this year.. Well frankly we have no other choice lol. 

 

[mll]

.

Edited January 12, 2023 by mll

[Elias Pettersson]

3 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said:

I would gladly wait 7 years if it meant we would actually win a cup or have a legit chance to....wouldn't you? We've already been bad for a decade lol

 

What's your solution to all of this? Keep doing the same thing for another 10 years and expecting different results?  Keep trying to re-tool on the go while trading picks and prospects for players in their 30's that may help up play meaningful games in March while picking outside the top 10 every year because we had a late season push to just miss the playoffs and spend to the cap so we have no real way to improve the team when we need to?

My solution is to tank hard for Bedard.  He will save this franchise.  Other than that, I got nothing really.  I've seen this act play out for a long time, so I won't be surprised what happens from here on out whatever direction we take...

[wai_lai416]

10 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Our 2 biggest trade chips are Bo and Kuz. 

If we trade them both, can you see Boeser in Bo's bumper position on the PP next year? 

He's got a lethal shot and is great at tip ins and decent size where he won't be knocked off his skates easily. (doesn't win board battles but all we need him to do is find the soft spot in the slot) 

In fantasy football, it's not necessarily the best players that score high / has value... Its about drafting guys that get a lot of opportunities on their team (touches) 

This year. Bo and Kuz got a lot of touches. They increased their value and then we trade them. 

Next year we do that with Boeser. If he's scoring at a 30 goal pace by getting ice time with Petey and PP1 bumper duties, we can trade him at the deadline for a big haul. (some fans might want to keep him at that point but that's an absolute no) 

I would say the same about OEL but Hughes is just too good to not play on PP1. 

Completely thinking outside the box, one could consider trading Hughes for a massive haul top tier C and a top tier D prospect and then slot OEL into PP1. 

So theoretically our team looks like ass next year. 

Boeser comes back,

Trade Miller before his ntc kicks in

Losing Horvat, Kuz and Hughes 

 

However we load up on picks and prospects and then sell Boeser and whoever else we couldn't trade next deadline once they increase their value. 

 

Its a 2 year process to get rid of all the unwanted cap (Myers, Boeser, Pearson, Garland) but this would be the way to maximize returns in 2 years. 

 

When considering all of this, it really sucks that we traded a second for Stillman what a bone headed move. 

 

 

 

no i can't see boeser in bo's slot in the pp that's not his playstyle never was never will be. boeser was tried with EP.. tried with Miller.. both are not working.. i doubt boeser will get back to a 30 goal pace.. he might be good for 20-25 goals 50-60 point guy.. not worth his cap atm.. no one is going to offer you a haul for boeser next TDL.. it's going to be the exact same issue.. there's still terms left on the contract... and the PP is going to stink next season if they have to put a hoglander garland podkolzin or mikahyev on pp1 along side the 649 combo which have already failed spectacularly last season. boeser had a bad season last season.. he's having a even worse season goal scoring wise this season.. so what makes you think he'll all of a sudden bounce back and be on pace for 30 goals next season when the team will likely be offensively challenged if all the said players are gone, and you essentially become a 1 line team.

 

if you are traindg away miller horvat kuz hughes.. you can add EP to the list. no one is going to hitch their prime to a team in a full blown rebuild.

[Elias Pettersson]

5 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

I think the timeframe of a rebuild depends on what assets we get in return. 

If we trade them for current blue chip draft+2 players on the cusp of making it full time, we could be in playoff contention in 2-3 years. 

Losing Horvat and kuz doesn't mean their production just falls into a black hole. Other players like Boeser, Garland will get PP1 time and increase their production. 

Yes we would be terrible next year but 5 years might be like worst case scenario where we only get draft picks in return and then we draft them and wait 5 years for them to be productive. 

 

 

I don't have alot of confidence in this management group to do a full rebuild.  JR may retire at any moment, and Allvin has less experience than Benning.  They are going to have to hit a home run on a Horvat trade in order to even stand a chance at getting out of this mess...

[Harold Drunken]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

My solution is to tank hard for Bedard.  He will save this franchise.  Other than that, I got nothing really.  I've seen this act play out for a long time, so I won't be surprised what happens from here on out whatever direction we take...

Yeah agreed, I just can't stand to watch us keep doing the same thing year after year and expecting different results. We'll be stuck in the middle forever. This franchise needs fresh blood and talent, unfortunately this means finishing near the bottom. I can only assume getting Bedard would boost ticket sales by a decent margin, so ownership/management would be wise to try and better our chances at drafting a player like Bedard. Fantilli would be a nice consolation prize.

[Elias Pettersson]

5 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said:

Yeah agreed, I just can't stand to watch us keep doing the same thing year after year and expecting different results. We'll be stuck in the middle forever. This franchise needs fresh blood and talent, unfortunately this means finishing near the bottom. I can only assume getting Bedard would boost ticket sales by a decent margin, so ownership/management would be wise to try and better our chances at drafting a player like Bedard. Fantilli would be a nice consolation prize.

If we get Bedard we wouldn't even need to win a cup really.  Just the jersey sales alone, and the marketing and the full rink every game would be enough for the owners I think.  Might increase the value of the franchise by another $200-$300 million...