canucklehead44 Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, Maginator said: Miller will be fine Boeser we had no choice. Otherwise lose him for nothing. Mikheyev has been great The problem with the defence isn't that we need new players.. it's that we need to get rid of the trash we currently have. Myers OEL. People also forget that Mikheyev played a part in us getting Kuzmenko. Mikheyev has been far and away our best penalty killer and is performing above his pay points wise with limited power play time. In fact I think he is our best signing since July 1 2010 when we signed both Malhotra and Hamhuis. Benning's only really good signings were pretty small - Vanek & Schenn. And oh boy reading through the list of nightmares is gut wrenching lmao. I hate buyouts. They are almost never worth it. I'd rather we sell Horvat as he has value and once Pearson (who might not even count for the cap next year) and Myers expire we after next season we will be in pretty good shape. Holtby, Virtanen, and Halak are also coming off the books this year. If we would have let our 12 million dollar 4th line run out and drafted Guenther plus one of the several RHD available in the second round we would have so much cap space and good youth in the system. I think that was the worst trade in Canucks history. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 1 minute ago, canucklehead44 said: People also forget that Mikheyev played a part in us getting Kuzmenko. Mikheyev has been far and away our best penalty killer and is performing above his pay points wise with limited power play time. In fact I think he is our best signing since July 1 2010 when we signed both Malhotra and Hamhuis. Benning's only really good signings were pretty small - Vanek & Schenn. And oh boy reading through the list of nightmares is gut wrenching lmao. I hate buyouts. They are almost never worth it. I'd rather we sell Horvat as he has value and once Pearson (who might not even count for the cap next year) and Myers expire we after next season we will be in pretty good shape. Holtby, Virtanen, and Halak are also coming off the books this year. If we would have let our 12 million dollar 4th line run out and drafted Guenther plus one of the several RHD available in the second round we would have so much cap space and good youth in the system. I think that was the worst trade in Canucks history. Not even close. Guenther has proven nothing so far, except in the WJC. I honestly think the Forsling trade hurt us more than anything. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizmo2337 Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, DeNiro said: So if he targeted players like Byram, Lafreniere, Dobson etc you wouldn’t be happy? I don’t know what kind of rebuild fans even want. Like what does a rebuild look like to you? Selling everyone for 1st and 2nd round picks and hoping they pan out in 6-7 years? Problem is, we won't get any of those players. Instead it will be like a bunch of third and fourth liners for picks. Personally, I'd like to see us trade for 2-3 more 1st picks this year and roll the dice. Here's the result of last re-tool. Ferland, Myers, and Miller.https://www.nhl.com/news/vancouver-canucks-roster-news-projected-lineups/c-308311448 Edited January 16, 2023 by gizmo2337 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanuck Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 4 minutes ago, Boudrias said: Can we assume you are talking the Boeser and Miller contracts? I don't think they have signed any others of significance? I view both of these contracts as an effort to retain value rather than lose it. That only means something if Miller and Boeser are in fact traded for value. Moving both is necessary IMHO. Hoping that happens before the TDL. No, I was specifically referring to the fact that JR mentioned one of his top priorities for the franchise was to create cap-flexibility, and most of us assumed that meant dealing several of the existing contracts that existed here before he arrived (assumed he was talking about other contracts, since he made that public statement several times before Boeser/Miller were signed). He made a critical error in judgment regarding his ability to move on from these contracts, and then he inexplicably exacerbated the cap issues by authorizing the Boeser/Miller deals thereby all but ensuring there would be zero cap-flexibility in the near future. Once he realized his error in reading the financial landscape of the league, and understood he was stuck with the contracts that were already on the books, he should have done the next logical step and NOT re-signed Brock or extended Miller imo. But he did the exact opposite to everyone's astonishment. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 7 minutes ago, DeNiro said: So if he targeted players like Byram, Lafreniere, Dobson etc you wouldn’t be happy? I don’t know what kind of rebuild fans even want. Like what does a rebuild look like to you? Selling everyone for 1st and 2nd round picks and hoping they pan out in 6-7 years? If they wanted to retool effectively.. Miller should have been traded for starters. There was a market there. That cap space should have been used to bolster the rest of the team's roster, which SHOULD HAVE BEEN PRIORITIZED on defense. Sell high and collect young players instead of draft picks. They did neither. Now we are stuck on the cap and we have to trade Horvat because we can't afford him. The trade leverage for him won't be as high as if we had cap space. Teams will squeeze us for the price to go down because we'll lose him for nothing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 1 minute ago, DeNiro said: So if he targeted players like Byram, Lafreniere, Dobson etc you wouldn’t be happy? I don’t know what kind of rebuild fans even want. Like what does a rebuild look like to you? Selling everyone for 1st and 2nd round picks and hoping they pan out in 6-7 years? I think we would be overjoyed if Dobson came back for Horvat. Problem is the other areas where we would need to retain or give up assets to move. I've come to terms and accepted the fact that Miller will be like OEL in that he's here long term because contract is not moveable. Our guys with value currently are Horvat and Kuz. If we used the assets we got back from dealing them to get rid of OEL, Myers, Boeser, we still need to find 2 top 4 dmen to replace OEL and Myers. This is a messy situation.... I honestly think the best course of action is to accept that Miller is here long term and ride out the contracts of Myers, Boeser, OEL and make hockey trades that get us younger along the way. Just get as many assets for Horvat and call it a day I guess... Myers will have value at tdl next year if we retain. Maybe same with Pearson Boeser the following year And OEL probably not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 7 minutes ago, stawns said: Colorado started their rebuild over a decade ago, same with TB Both teams have been excellent for some time now. Tampa has been elite for years. And yet they will still somehow decline, rebuild, and contend before we even begin to make the hard choices. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24K PureCool Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 17 minutes ago, DeNiro said: He can’t win at this point. The only way fans would be happy is if he said the word rebuild and said they’re tanking for Bedard. I honestly don’t understand fans obsession with that word. Like it has to be said otherwise he’s an idiot and doesn’t know what he’s doing. Theres gonna be a major overhaul of the roster, it takes time though. Only so much you can do when the last management signed players to bad contracts. The biggest takeaway for me from this is that they’ve chosen a direction. They’re not gonna try desperately to save this season like in the past. And it’s pretty obvious they’re gonna make some moves at the deadline to get younger. I don’t know what else people were looking for. I will tell you why we don't like the word re-tool. Re-tool means trading best players for 23-25 year old players that most likely other teams have given up on while rebuild means getting picks and young prospects up to two years removed from their draft. We have seen how the re-tool plan worked. It ain't gonna work this time around either. Like you said, all pressure will be off if ownership and management just came out and said rebuild and trading for futures. That is all this fanbase wants. Petey staying or gone be damned. He ain't gonna win here either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 36 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said: There is something wrong with the roster, regardless of Demko's health. I didn't see this team as capable of making the playoffs. JR said the roster needs fixing. He said the core is good, but the cap allocated to the supporting cast is too much for what that group provides. So he's trying to move switch the supporting cast. MIk, Kuz, Bear, Lazar are a start, but there is a lot more to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goal:thecup Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 3 minutes ago, CanucksJay said: I honestly think the best course of action is to accept that Miller is here long term Not until the TDL comes and goes am I accepting that. We're not stuck with JT until then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklehead44 Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 4 minutes ago, Dazzle said: Not even close. Guenther has proven nothing so far, except in the WJC. I honestly think the Forsling trade hurt us more than anything. And what would we need to give up to move Garland and OEL right now? Forsling was waived after that trade was made. Its not like traded Forsling for Loui Eriksson and got anchored by a bad contract. At least in the Neely trade Barry Pederson didn't hurt the Canucks and was part of a trade tree in the Ronning deal. This trade is actively hurting us - missing out on who would be our top prospect and the availability of strong RHD in that second round just makes it so much worse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
combover Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 43 minutes ago, Dazzle said: It's so funny to me that he is making excuses for this failure when the mistakes are on him. This current team is on him. Can you imagine going to work today and making excuses for why work wasn't done, all the while screwing up on the job? It is the previous regime. We had no nhl prospect because of 8 years of stupid and horrendous cap managment OEL Myers garland pearson and dead cap. miller didn’t help but most found the 8 mill a fair value ( I wanted him traded.) but no way ownership would allow him to leave sold on a career year. Boesers a bit of a mystery they didn’t want to walk away from a young player that’s coming off personal and phyical injuries and in fairness he’s not far off what a player getting paid what he’s getting as far a point totals. This team will never rebuild as long as Francesco is involved. so I guess we’ll see if JR/PA are more capable. Jb Total incompetence was hidden by unreal goaltending almost every year jim was here most of us saw what was coming if we got even average goaltending, it’s on full display this season. can’t say I’m stoked on jr/pa but I’m not surprised by the refool news Atleast not as long as FA is here. but I’m not going to compare them to someone who had 8 years and couldn’t achieve even mediocrity. hope these guys can do a better job than the last guy is about all we can hope for at this point. But Canuck fans are no strangers to disappointment, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 55 minutes ago, Dazzle said: You are 100 percent right about the parallels. Similar to JR, Benning had put himself into bad situations by overspending the cap. However, JR's signings/trades so far have been good, minus Stillman. Benning seemed to lose in the majority of trades (in the long run). JR has made more mistakes in the short run than Benning though. We had cap space. They just spent it on Miller, who we don't really NEED on this team. We had one huge chance to acquire much needed assets, players, picks, prospects, and gain priceless cap space. The solution was very obvious and right in their face just when we needed it and they completely blew it in massive fashion signing Boeser as well. Huge mistake, one we may not recover from for quite awhile. 42 minutes ago, Boudrias said: I thought the new USA broadcast rights contracted over a year ago would deliver $5 million per year to each club. How that will be reflected in CAP limits is unknown to me. Maybe it is being used on the players escrow account. I don't think that directly translates to the cap, at least all in one chunk. One thing I know is that there is always big projections which is good for business but it doesn't come through often for a variety of reasons. 42 minutes ago, KelownaCanucksFan said: Yep no one forced them to sign Miller and other free agents last summer they made those mistakes on their own, selling high on miller was the right play and they blew it big time. Time for this fossil to go away Massive failure to read the market and the team. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24K PureCool Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 15 minutes ago, DeNiro said: So if he targeted players like Byram, Lafreniere, Dobson etc you wouldn’t be happy? I don’t know what kind of rebuild fans even want. Like what does a rebuild look like to you? Selling everyone for 1st and 2nd round picks and hoping they pan out in 6-7 years? Yes. I wouldn't be happy with those players. There are reasons why they are available to begin with. Byram major injury concerns and likely one head hit away from retirement. Lafreniere is straddling the nhl/ahl line. A failed 1st overall pick. Also another winger is the last thing we need, Dobson ain't even available so don't know where that came from. I mean sure if we offered up Petey or Hughes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 His definition of rebuild and re-tool are confusing to me, as I don't know what he considers the "core". He says that the team needs 'major surgery' (scalpels are very sharp) and that contracts will be bought out. That sounds like a lot of players on the move in the next 8 months, so it's hard to evaluate what he's doing without knowing what he means by the 'core'. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24K PureCool Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, higgyfan said: His definition of rebuild and re-tool are confusing to me, as I don't know what he considers the "core". He says that the team needs 'major surgery' (scalpels are very sharp) and that contracts will be bought out. That sounds like a lot of players on the move in the next 8 months, so it's hard to evaluate what he's doing without knowing what he means by the 'core'. Re-tool is trading players for younger roaster players or older prospects that other team don't want anymore. Re-builld is trading players for futures like prospects and picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post CanucksJay Posted January 16, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted January 16, 2023 4 minutes ago, Dazzle said: If they wanted to retool effectively.. Miller should have been traded for starters. There was a market there. That cap space should have been used to bolster the rest of the team's roster, which SHOULD HAVE BEEN PRIORITIZED on defense. Sell high and collect young players instead of draft picks. They did neither. Now we are stuck on the cap and we have to trade Horvat because we can't afford him. The trade leverage for him won't be as high as if we had cap space. Teams will squeeze us for the price to go down because we'll lose him for nothing. If hindsight was 20/20... imagine we traded Miller last year Gave Brock a 1 year QO and trade him at the deadline and now we are dangling Horvat... We would have fast tracked the "retool" Finishing touches would be trading Myers next deadline. Petey and Hughes would have a solid team to lead as they hit their prime.... Only crap contract would be OEL and no one would blame JR if he blamed the former regime... 1 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 31 minutes ago, CanucksJay said: Teams are circling and vulturing because he cornered himself by signing Miller Boeser and Mikheyev. If we had more breathing room cap wise, it would be a lot easier to trade someone like Myers who has 1 year left after his season. No team is gonna give us a free out. Just a horrible understanding of how to count to 82.5. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24K PureCool Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 1 minute ago, CanucksJay said: If hindsight was 20/20... imagine we traded Miller last year Gave Brock a 1 year QO and trade him at the deadline and now we are dangling Horvat... We would have fast tracked the "retool" Finishing touches would be trading Myers next deadline. Petey and Hughes would have a solid team to lead as they hit their prime.... Only crap contract would be OEL and no one would blame JR if he blamed the former regime... More infuriating is that they didn't even need to sign Miller before the season. Preach patience, don't have patience themselves. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bounce000 Posted January 16, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted January 16, 2023 So Jim thought we needed a vasectomy, but in reality we need full genital reconstruction surgery? 10 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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