[Report] Canucks fire Bruce Boudreau, Trent Cull; name Rick Tocchet as head coach, Adam Foote as assistant coach, Sergei Gonchar as defensive development coach

[Dazzle]

2 hours ago, RWJC said:

All fair points and I generally agree. I’m not countering you. I think you have to have a huge ego as well as quasi-sociopathic traits to want to be and accept the role of President of a billion dollar corporation, and JR has been successful in that position, so makes sense.

 

I’m not displacing fault from the feet of mgmt. this has been a shit show. But there imho is just as much fault with the handling of the coverage of this fiasco.

one thing to ponder…kind of F’d up if you really think about it:

 

the media “rallying” behind a coach so much to be respectfully addressed (aka fired) when the only thing that man wants is more time to coach. to the very last second possible. 

“walked out to the electric chair”.

nice one Marek. probably really proud of that remark. 

if it’s a foregone conclusion by pundits and media that Bruce is going to be replaced, then feck off, let the process unfold, and agree to step away from the story out of respect.  Don’t pressure him for emotion when you know how much of it already exists. At least allow him as much time to do what he loves without pundits patronizing it as part of the guise to sell their own commentary to the mass market. 
 

but they can’t do that. They have to bleed it dry and peck away like vultures.

I understand their role. But they dont report, they shape stories. And everyone bought this up because they wanted a target for frustrations and “almighty” answers for why such a good guy is being canned. 
 

The answer is everybody failed and even Bruce at his best did too.

 

It sucks, the media could have framed the truth but they didn’t. What they framed was a typical martyr and scapegoat story which in pro sports is a lock to catch fire.

 

Tocchet claimed numerous times in the presser that he wanted the rink to become a safe place for the players. Who do you think, after recent experience, they would need to be sheltered from?

That’s blatantly obvious - and it sure as shit ain’t Ryp!

 

 

 

I like this post from you. This explores the blame in a more pervasive manner. The media, undoubtedly, has been like vultures, like you described. Yet management seemed to be aware of this and played into their hands. I think Rutherford was ruthless, but I didn't think of sociopathic until you brought it up. It's an interesting speculation there.

 

I don't know if JR's past success is meaningful at this stage. The mistakes he's made has been head scratching for a man with his kind of experience. Moreover, the group decisions that JR promised at the beginning of his tenure has not been present. I think one media reporter noted that there's more than 30+ people within this staff that could've taken ownership of this mess, but not one of them did.

 

If this was a failure by design to show Aquilini something, which IMO would show his line of reasoning, it would almost seem better, except he's admitted that he made mistakes. It's just not good enough. He potentially could be screwing with the team's future. For starters, Horvat is on his way out, and Rutherford has all his friends with jobs.

[Zerofaith]

42 minutes ago, Pure961089 said:

This part of the presser was the most interesting.  

 

You just gotta laugh at these bozos..and we’re sadly stuck with them for the foreseeable future.  

[Dazzle]

10 minutes ago, Zerofaith said:

You just gotta laugh at these bozos..and we’re sadly stuck with them for the foreseeable future.  

Yeah, those edits make them look bad.

 

To be perfectly honest, I've been critical of Allvin, yet I sympathize with him here. How do you answer a question like that without looking like a jackass? He confirms what we already know that JR was behind this.

[IBatch]

18 hours ago, stawns said:

The only one I feel decent about is Gonchar as he was a cerebral player and one who came from the Soviet blue c era where systems were key.

 

Foote and Tocvhet were emotional players and that seems more of the same from BB.  Both were dbag players too

D-bags.    So maybe we can get OEL not to flamingo and block a shot?  Or instead of skating by after your smallest player gets sucker punched - and then skating by again soon after when there's a time to send a message?    If they won't do it for Bruce,  well maybe they will do it for a coach who will hit you during practice if you're not paying attention.    Sure the players have been watching video about how their new coach played too.     Not sure how one power forward is more "d-bag" than another one.   Bertuzzi didn't fight, often anyways and wasn't very good at it for a guy his size.    Involved in one of the d-baggiest hockey incidents ever.    Tochett knew  how to give his team a spark and would do anything to help them win.     Foote.  Well not sure what he ever did that made him "emotional"...just a solid defensive defenseman.     Or make him a D-bag.   If he's a D-bag then so we're 80% of our players back then too. 

[iinatcc]

I don't know what to make of it but, on the parts that were coherent, Rick Tocchet felt very "buzz wordy" during the press conference.

Obviously I won't judge him based on that but he feels like a cliché sports coach from American football movies 

 

Edited January 23, 2023 by iinatcc

[chon derry]

15 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

I don't know what to make of it but, on the parts that were coherent, Rick Tocchet felt very "buzz wordy" during the press conference.

Obviously I won't judge him based on that but he feels like a cliché sports coach from American football movies 

 

It’s a jock thing…

 

[Boudrias]

49 minutes ago, IBatch said:

D-bags.    So maybe we can get OEL not to flamingo and block a shot?  Or instead of skating by after your smallest player gets sucker punched - and then skating by again soon after when there's a time to send a message?    If they won't do it for Bruce,  well maybe they will do it for a coach who will hit you during practice if you're not paying attention.    Sure the players have been watching video about how their new coach played too.     Not sure how one power forward is more "d-bag" than another one.   Bertuzzi didn't fight, often anyways and wasn't very good at it for a guy his size.    Involved in one of the d-baggiest hockey incidents ever.    Tochett knew  how to give his team a spark and would do anything to help them win.     Foote.  Well not sure what he ever did that made him "emotional"...just a solid defensive defenseman.     Or make him a D-bag.   If he's a D-bag then so we're 80% of our players back then too. 

At the end of the day PA, JR and RT are hockey people. They came to the game as players. They did not major in media and PR, to my knowledge. They come to such media scrums to try and explain their actions because sports writers and fans want to dally in the details. The sports writers fed themselves in this manner and the fans titillate their senses out of rather humdrum lives. A tad to brutal? I guess so. 

 

As a long time Canuck fan I want a 'banner in the rafters'. IMHO Allvin was bang on in his assessment. Running the Canucks is about winning a CUP. If their assessment is that Boudreau could not deliver that then he had to go. JR & PA have been on the job for about 1 year now. Boudreau was here before they were. What is/was happening on the ice was not working. That is not all on BB. Neither is it all on JR & PA. Anyone who thinks otherwise does not have a strong grasp on what it takes to change an org in the NHL. It takes years. The world does not care how long Canuck fans have been waiting. The world does not owe the Canucks a break. As is usual in Canuckland the finger pointing and escapism from reality goes on. 

 

Accept that Rutherford and Allvin will take their kick at the can. They will be judged over time for what they accomplish. Give Jim Benning some credit. Look at the roster in 2014 and then again for when he left in 2022. He added some pieces that will make PA's job somewhat easier. That does not change the harsh reality that the only thing that counts is the scorecard. 

[HorvatToBaertschi]

9 hours ago, AnotherCanucksFan said:

WAS running well. It is not anymore, which is one of many reasons the Canucks can't win.

It’s been dogshit ever since they’ve forced Kuzmenko off of PP1 for Boeser 

[canuckleheads fan]

Well obviously, Rutherford is a full-on Tank Commander, hiring a stupid idiot, horrible coach with a depressingly bad record who has NEVER sniffed the playoffs in an entire season. Consider he couldn't even make the playoffs with a stacked team in Tampa when his successor made it to the third round the very next year. Then hire two untested assistants plus keep the two worst assistants in the league and you have losing hockey for at least the next couple of years until Tank Commander Jim, Alvin, and Tocchet get canned. I know I won't be buying Comcast's Canucks package next year; maybe I'll start following the Kracken until the Canucks get watchable again. I swear, I've been here for this team for 50 years, and I have NEVER been so unhappy with how things are going.

[Toyotasfan]

35 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

It’s been dogshit ever since they’ve forced Kuzmenko off of PP1 for Boeser 

First they brought in Toffoli who out performs Boeser in that role but they let him go, now they have Kuzmenko who has out performed Boeser , yet somehow team management still thinks Boeser is the #1 winger?

[canuckleheads fan]

25 minutes ago, Toyotasfan said:

First they brought in Toffoli who out performs Boeser in that role but they let him go, now they have Kuzmenko who has out performed Boeser , yet somehow team management still thinks Boeser is the #1 winger?

I think they're trying to pump up Boeser's trade value and depress Kuzmenko's value to make him easier to resign. They can't get rid of everybody, because they'd draw crowds like the Coyotes are drawing only in a rink four times as large. I don't think the majority of the hockey fans in Vancouver are willing to put up with three or four years of horrible hockey as bottom dwellers, they will alienate a large portion of the fan base. Worse, I think Petey and Hughes would walk at the end of their deals. Who wants to lose game after game just to stock up on picks?

[JayDangles]

6 hours ago, RWJC said:

All fair points and I generally agree. I’m not countering you. I think you have to have a huge ego as well as quasi-sociopathic traits to want to be and accept the role of President of a billion dollar corporation, and JR has been successful in that position, so makes sense.

 

I’m not displacing fault from the feet of mgmt. this has been a shit show. But there imho is just as much fault with the handling of the coverage of this fiasco.

one thing to ponder…kind of F’d up if you really think about it:

 

the media “rallying” behind a coach so much to be respectfully addressed (aka fired) when the only thing that man wants is more time to coach. to the very last second possible. 

“walked out to the electric chair”.

nice one Marek. probably really proud of that remark. 

if it’s a foregone conclusion by pundits and media that Bruce is going to be replaced, then feck off, let the process unfold, and agree to step away from the story out of respect.  Don’t pressure him for emotion when you know how much of it already exists. At least allow him as much time to do what he loves without pundits patronizing it as part of the guise to sell their own commentary to the mass market. 
 

but they can’t do that. They have to bleed it dry and peck away like vultures.

I understand their role. But they dont report, they shape stories. And everyone bought this up because they wanted a target for frustrations and “almighty” answers for why such a good guy is being canned. 
 

The answer is everybody failed and even Bruce at his best did too.

 

It sucks, the media could have framed the truth but they didn’t. What they framed was a typical martyr and scapegoat story which in pro sports is a lock to catch fire.

 

Tocchet claimed numerous times in the presser that he wanted the rink to become a safe place for the players. Who do you think, after recent experience, they would need to be sheltered from?

That’s blatantly obvious - and it sure as shit ain’t Ryp!

 

 

 

This is a very well thought out post and speaks to the game behind the game. Something us fans too often overlook when getting sucked into the drama of the media.

While I like Bruce very much as a person, his coaching system wasn't working. Even if you look back to last year where we were winning games, so many of those came because of Demko outperforming and stealing games. I think management saw this and knew it wasn't sustainable.

 

Is it all Bruce's fault? Heck no, the players on the ice have big issues.

 

All that said, you make a very strong point about how our Vancouver media loves to blow things up, and the Toronto media love to pile it on when they have the chance.

 

Bruce being let go made sense. Instead of speaking to this fact, the media sought out just the drama and disrespect being shown to him. This was real, but it wasn't the only part of the story.

 

I'm hopeful things can quiet down now and we can just get back to hockey.

 

 

[Nucker 67]

1 hour ago, canuckleheads fan said:

hiring a stupid idiot, horrible coach with a depressingly bad record who has NEVER sniffed the playoffs in an entire season.

Who are you talking about?  Can't be Tocchet, he won a Cup as a player and a coach. Maybe he'll win another in VAN. Cheer up. 

[AnthonyG]

To me, this is solely on ownership.

1) FA hired HIS coach before his management team

2) an optional 2nd year in the agreement forced JR and PA to accept Bruce’s choice to return, who was likely not their 1st choice. Due to the run they went on after TG’s dismissal, they had no argument against BBs return.

3) FA flew down to meet Tocchet, which drew the attention of the media and blew this up and management is taking the blame, yet no one heard a peep about JT Millers extension. That was complete carelessness on Francesco’s part. However perhaps it was JR that spoke to Francesco and that prompted a flight down to Vegas.

 

Now what I will say in defence of the firing Boudreau…He was not going to be getting an extension after the season anyhow. Even though we could have just let him ride out into the sunset and finish the contract, results matter. Its a losing season with almost no chance of playoffs. The logical reason for firing Bruce is to bring in your new coach and start working on new systems mid season, so that next year we arent starting the season learning new systems. We’ll have half a season and the whole off season to adapt. It will help us next year to coming out of the gates… I hope…

 

[EddieVedder]

1 hour ago, Toyotasfan said:

First they brought in Toffoli who out performs Boeser in that role but they let him go, now they have Kuzmenko who has out performed Boeser , yet somehow team management still thinks Boeser is the #1 winger?

How else is that dummy supposed to get any points to increase his trade value?

Sadly it looks like teams have caught onto the fact that he is a horrible player that can only rack up lucky secondary points if hes given top minutes.  

[Boudrias]

9 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

This is a very well thought out post and speaks to the game behind the game. Something us fans too often overlook when getting sucked into the drama of the media.

While I like Bruce very much as a person, his coaching system wasn't working. Even if you look back to last year where we were winning games, so many of those came because of Demko outperforming and stealing games. I think management saw this and knew it wasn't sustainable.

 

Is it all Bruce's fault? Heck no, the players on the ice have big issues.

 

All that said, you make a very strong point about how our Vancouver media loves to blow things up, and the Toronto media love to pile it on when they have the chance.

 

Bruce being let go made sense. Instead of speaking to this fact, the media sought out just the drama and disrespect being shown to him. This was real, but it wasn't the only part of the story.

 

I'm hopeful things can quiet down now and we can just get back to hockey.

 

 

To some extent media does what they do to ensure their access to players and management. If they say something negative enough times they might be shunned which is a death knell for their careers and even livelihood. Second guessing management on player moves or development failures is hard. Questioning coaches on strategies is hard. Questioning players on their performance is hard. The interesting thing about Tocchet is that he has done media so how he deals with the in depth questioning  of Vancouver media should be fun.   

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

To me, this is solely on ownership.

1) FA hired HIS coach before his management team

2) an optional 2nd year in the agreement forced JR and PA to accept Bruce’s choice to return, who was likely not their 1st choice. Due to the run they went on after TG’s dismissal, they had no argument against BBs return.

3) FA flew down to meet Tocchet, which drew the attention of the media and blew this up and management is taking the blame, yet no one heard a peep about JT Millers extension. That was complete carelessness on Francesco’s part. However perhaps it was JR that spoke to Francesco and that prompted a flight down to Vegas.

 

Now what I will say in defence of the firing Boudreau…He was not going to be getting an extension after the season anyhow. Even though we could have just let him ride out into the sunset and finish the contract, results matter. Its a losing season with almost no chance of playoffs. The logical reason for firing Bruce is to bring in your new coach and start working on new systems mid season, so that next year we arent starting the season learning new systems. We’ll have half a season and the whole off season to adapt. It will help us next year to coming out of the gates… I hope…

 

This ^^^ is 100% correct. Our owner needs to keep his snout out if hockey ops. 

[johngould21]

3 hours ago, Zerofaith said:

You just gotta laugh at these bozos..and we’re sadly stuck with them for the foreseeable future.  

They've got my vote of confidence, buckle up folks.

[canuckleheads fan]

14 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Who are you talking about?  Can't be Tocchet, he won a Cup as a player and a coach. Maybe he'll win another in VAN. Cheer up. 

Not a head coach. The only time he made the playoffs as a HC was in Pheonix in the Covid shortened bubble season, which I don't think really counts.

Edited January 23, 2023 by canuckleheads fan

[kenhodgejr]

With Adam Foote now as assistant coach, I wonder if a Horvat to Tampa for Cal Foote + trade might be in the works?