Management owns all of this

[*Buzzsaw*]

Benning has been gone for more than a year.

 

The current management group had a chance to make decisions and reverse some of the negative trends which Benning had started.

 

They should have had the information they needed.

 

Yet they made the decisions to sign Miller and qualify and extend Boeser.  And they made the decision to sign Ilya Mikheyev.

 

All of those decisions led to where the team is now... unable to sign Horvat because the team will go over its CAP limit.  And probably unable to sign Kuzmenko for the same reason.

 

They are now in the position of potentially losing both players... two the of the three best players on the team this year.  (other obviously is Pettersson)

 

They put themselves in this position by not anticipating or making allowance for what should have been obvious.

 

They knew Bo Horvat would be in the last year of his contract before UFA... the experience of watching other UFA's over the years should have told them players pull out all the stops and work the hardest in the last year before UFA... but they didn't take that into account...  Rutherford admitted as much in his interview... he said they had budgeted for Bo producing at a similar rate this year as he did in 2021/2022... even though he had improved every year and was still young.  Now when Bo steps up and shows his best year ever, they are unable to give him a fair market value contract.  They wanted to re-sign Bo... now they seemingly can't.

 

They signed Kuzmenko out of the KHL because they thought he could be a high scoring forward in the NHL.  But despite the glowing reports of their own Scouts surprisingly, they didn't budget for the cost in re-signing him if he performed as they projected he would.  When they signed him initially, they could have locked him down for a couple years at a bargain price... but they preferred to be cheap and make it only one year.  Now they are up against the CAP limit again when it comes to his contract.

 

This was supposed to be a veteran management group, with vast experience and the knowledge of how to operate within CAP limits.  But what they have shown is the opposite.  They are getting caught out like a bunch of Rookie GM's.

Now they are in desperation mode... trying to unload Horvat, trying to unload Boeser, etc.  Most likely they will not get value for assets because other GM's know they are desperate.  It is possible they will lose Horvat for nothing.... in the same way Benning lost Markstrom, Tanev and Edler for nothing.

 

Now I am hoping they do pull the rabbit out of the hat and somehow unload excess CAP as well as re-signing Horvat... but it is looking like this is a real longshot.

 

Management owns this whole situation.

[Nucker 67]

9 minutes ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Management owns this whole situation.

I think Aqua owns some too 

 

Miller is going to do really well under Tocchet, and the softies will have to leave. 

[FijianCanuck]

[VegasCanuck]

The cap and the fact that there's maybe 5 or 6 teams in the league right now where you could move a 2.5 million contract without having to accept a bad contract back has a lot to do with the current situation.

 

There was NO logical world where we don't qualify Boeser and if they didn't qualify him and let him walk, they should have been fired on the spot for bad asset management. His play is not the reason he's still here and hasn't been moved, it's that to move ANYONE over 6 million takes major surgery to a team that wants to trade for him. There are 17 out of 32 teams who are currently operating and surviving just due to the LTIR clause, and a total of 22 who have less than 2 million in current cap space. It doesn't take a math wizard to determine that's going to make things difficult to do any type of trades right now.

 

In case some fans missed it, the ONLY trades that have been happening is shuffling of fringe guys making less than 1 million per year. 

 

Yes, they made decisions to sign certain guys up front BEFORE making sure that they could make the other trades to free up necessary space, and YES, they definitely own that.

 

All GM's are currently in the same position, they all want to make trades, but if you're bringing in a significant contract, you have to look at your lineup and not only decide who you're getting rid of, but often, where you're getting rid of them too. It's likely that anyone wanting Boeser, Horvat, Miller or anyone else, have people that they need to move that we don't want. That means that a GM must involve another team to move a contract to, and ohhhh, right...there's about 5 of them to work with who would be able to take a contract and they ALL want an extra asset in exchange for freeing up cap space for another team.

 

Covid made a mess of this for ALL teams, it will soon start to loosen up a little, but we are about 2 - 3 years away from completely alleviating this issue. Remember, when Benning made the moves that wound up costing us Tanev and Toffoli etc, he made them 3 weeks after sitting in a GM meeting and being told that they would have roughly 5 million extra to play with in the coming summer and then Covid wiped that increase out and left everyone reeling.

 

Management teams make mistakes, and after how they handled the Boudreau issue, I'm not a big fan of defending them, they are dealing with issues that aren't even remotely being taken into account. Teams DO NOT fail to qualify guys who are putting up 20+ goals per season unless there is a significant problem with that player's ability to play hockey in future, it's bad asset management.

 

There are teams out there who want Boeser and others and as we get closer to the deadline, desperation for teams really looking for guys to put them over the top will kick in and trades will happen.

[Russ]

1 hour ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Benning has been gone for more than a year.

 

The current management group had a chance to make decisions and reverse some of the negative trends which Benning had started.

 

They should have had the information they needed.

 

Yet they made the decisions to sign Miller and qualify and extend Boeser.  And they made the decision to sign Ilya Mikheyev.

 

All of those decisions led to where the team is now... unable to sign Horvat because the team will go over its CAP limit.  And probably unable to sign Kuzmenko for the same reason.

 

They are now in the position of potentially losing both players... two the of the three best players on the team this year.  (other obviously is Pettersson)

 

They put themselves in this position by not anticipating or making allowance for what should have been obvious.

 

They knew Bo Horvat would be in the last year of his contract before UFA... the experience of watching other UFA's over the years should have told them players pull out all the stops and work the hardest in the last year before UFA... but they didn't take that into account...  Rutherford admitted as much in his interview... he said they had budgeted for Bo producing at a similar rate this year as he did in 2021/2022... even though he had improved every year and was still young.  Now when Bo steps up and shows his best year ever, they are unable to give him a fair market value contract.  They wanted to re-sign Bo... now they seemingly can't.

 

They signed Kuzmenko out of the KHL because they thought he could be a high scoring forward in the NHL.  But despite the glowing reports of their own Scouts surprisingly, they didn't budget for the cost in re-signing him if he performed as they projected he would.  When they signed him initially, they could have locked him down for a couple years at a bargain price... but they preferred to be cheap and make it only one year.  Now they are up against the CAP limit again when it comes to his contract.

 

This was supposed to be a veteran management group, with vast experience and the knowledge of how to operate within CAP limits.  But what they have shown is the opposite.  They are getting caught out like a bunch of Rookie GM's.

Now they are in desperation mode... trying to unload Horvat, trying to unload Boeser, etc.  Most likely they will not get value for assets because other GM's know they are desperate.  It is possible they will lose Horvat for nothing.... in the same way Benning lost Markstrom, Tanev and Edler for nothing.

 

Now I am hoping they do pull the rabbit out of the hat and somehow unload excess CAP as well as re-signing Horvat... but it is looking like this is a real longshot.

 

Management owns this whole situation.

How?  He comes into NHL on a 1 year ELC.  Unless magically he wanted to play for less than a mill for long term....

 

And how do you think they will lose Horvat for nothing?  You think they will go against their word and not let UFAs walk?  The dumped Motte last year, whats making you think a 26th place team won't unload Horvat for nothing at the trade deadline?

[iceman64]

7 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

I think Aqua owns some too 

 

Miller is going to do really well under Tocchet, and the softies will have to leave. 

"and the softies will have to leave"

 

Good! Get them out of here!  I use the Preds as a example, a series with them post-season would be embarrassing. 

We'd get run over, then they'd back up and take another run or 3 and it'd be all over except the crying towels passed around.

 This is vancouver, we don't get big tough teams around all that often, last time 12 years ago but it didn't have depth so you know how that went... 

[JeremyCuddles]

29 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

"and the softies will have to leave"

 

Good! Get them out of here!  I use the Preds as a example, a series with them post-season would be embarrassing. 

We'd get run over, then they'd back up and take another run or 3 and it'd be all over except the crying towels passed around.

 This is vancouver, we don't get big tough teams around all that often, last time 12 years ago but it didn't have depth so you know how that went... 

The guy that cries on the ice is not a softie? Who gets so deep in his feels he just gives up on backchecks. That's y'alls hero? The man baby. Yeah, what a real soldier. Very composed and hard working. He just gives up on defense when things don't go baby boy's way.

[RU SERIOUS]

10 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

 

 

This was supposed to be a veteran management group, with vast experience and the knowledge of how to operate within CAP limits.  But what they have shown is the opposite.  They are getting caught out like a bunch of Rookie GM's.

 

BTW..................... is a Rookie GM.  Just saying....................

[EP Phone Home]

7 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

BTW..................... is a Rookie GM.  Just saying....................

Exactly, people forget we have not had a seasoned GM since Burke. Since then we have had FOUR rookie GM’s in Nonis, Gillis,Benning and now Allvin. It’s almost like the guy who hires the GM doesn’t want them to be the smartest person in the room or to be a yes man. Don’t believe me? The track record of the past 20 years and four management regimes proves this. FO has been very green for sometime. Aside from Rutherford who is now POHO. But that’s literally it.

[iceman64]

9 hours ago, N7Nucks said:

The guy that cries on the ice is not a softie? Who gets so deep in his feels he just gives up on backchecks. That's y'alls hero? The man baby. Yeah, what a real soldier. Very composed and hard working. He just gives up on defense when things don't go baby boy's way.

No I meant the overall team softness, my bad, should have explained it better. 

  We need a tougher faster skilled team like the top teams have but with depth.

 Until we get that.. well you know.. 

 I'm just happy Gonchar came with Tocc, to help out with overall D, so when we do make the trades we have better and simpler systems for new guys to easily fit into. 

 I thought that would have already been addressed but it never happened. 

 Whatever though, all one can do is hope it happens now.

[iceman64]

51 minutes ago, EP Phone Home said:

Exactly, people forget we have not had a seasoned GM since Burke. Since then we have had FOUR rookie GM’s in Nonis, Gillis,Benning and now Allvin. It’s almost like the guy who hires the GM doesn’t want them to be the smartest person in the room or to be a yes man. Don’t believe me? The track record of the past 20 years and four management regimes proves this. FO has been very green for sometime. Aside from Rutherford who is now POHO. But that’s literally it.

Actually none of that matters unless a new seasoned GM will actually build a team with depth as well. 

  So far, not so much, and people are expecting miracles from a 3/4 roster and not a lot of depth as it stands now simply isn't going to happen. 

[EP Phone Home]

Just now, iceman64 said:

Actually none of that matters unless a new seasoned GM will actually build a team with depth as well. 

  So far, not so much, and people are expecting miracles from a 3/4 roster and not a lot of depth as it stands now simply isn't going to happen. 

You are correct and that comes down to the team philosophy and direction. No question, it doesn’t matter who you put in if the narrative remains the same. Have to rebuild the prospect pipeline and depth pool. Otherwise we are royally pucked anyway you look at it whoever is steering this ship. 

[iceman64]

6 minutes ago, EP Phone Home said:

You are correct and that comes down to the team philosophy and direction. No question, it doesn’t matter who you put in if the narrative remains the same. Have to rebuild the prospect pipeline and depth pool. Otherwise we are royally pucked anyway you look at it whoever is steering this ship. 

Yep... Sadly... 

[RU SERIOUS]

54 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

Actually none of that matters unless a new seasoned GM will actually build a team with depth as well. 

  So far, not so much, and people are expecting miracles from a 3/4 roster and not a lot of depth as it stands now simply isn't going to happen. 

I agree, but there's still some cooking to be done in the kitchen.  We'll see what JR does to rid the team of the floaters in the next few weeks and see if he can fix our defence properly.   Unravelling Jim Bennings mess will take some time.

[DownUndaCanuck]

You simply cannot have all your cake and eat it too, they go out and splash cash on wingers left right and center, and are about to lose a good center and still have no replacements on defence. Another winger signed - Kuzmenko to a 5.5M deal. I know he's been great, but look at management's spending and focus:

 

1) Miller to a monster 8M deal - now he's a winger, has been used as a center and we've played SO badly with him at C so often has to get protected by Bo.

2) Boeser on a 6.6M deal for a 20-30 goal scoring winger

3) Mikheyev out of the blue in free agency to a 5M deal

4) Kuzmenko was a freebie at 1M, now gets a 4M raise, on a 5.5M deal

 

That's 26M next year on our top-6 wingers. Yikes.

 

Meanwhile, Bo is going to have to be traded now so as it stands we've got Petey at 7M, then....uh...Lazar at 2C? Every other center is around 1M.

 

Not to mention the lack of defence, don't get me started about that.

 

Management have made tiny moves to try and fix the key issues on this roster - low risk low reward deals like that for Stillman, Bear and Studnicka. These guys are other team's scraps who weren't even on the roster. We just went out and took every team's healthy scratch and threw them into the lineup like a charity home. Meanwhile, we splash cash on our wingers. They haven't been bad at all, they're just the wrong place to be spending money.

 

Focussing on the least important aspect of the game - wingers, and ignoring the two most important areas - center depth and defence.

 

Even if we get a center and defenceman back for Bo, we're still in way over our heads because cap-wise someone's got to go.

 

Honestly I'd flip all of Miller, Boeser and Garland, get some cap back and get some centers who can play a two-way game and some defenders.

[combover]

20 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Benning has been gone for more than a year.

 

The current management group had a chance to make decisions and reverse some of the negative trends which Benning had started.

 

They should have had the information they needed.

 

Yet they made the decisions to sign Miller and qualify and extend Boeser.  And they made the decision to sign Ilya Mikheyev.

 

All of those decisions led to where the team is now... unable to sign Horvat because the team will go over its CAP limit.  And probably unable to sign Kuzmenko for the same reason.

 

They are now in the position of potentially losing both players... two the of the three best players on the team this year.  (other obviously is Pettersson)

 

They put themselves in this position by not anticipating or making allowance for what should have been obvious.

 

They knew Bo Horvat would be in the last year of his contract before UFA... the experience of watching other UFA's over the years should have told them players pull out all the stops and work the hardest in the last year before UFA... but they didn't take that into account...  Rutherford admitted as much in his interview... he said they had budgeted for Bo producing at a similar rate this year as he did in 2021/2022... even though he had improved every year and was still young.  Now when Bo steps up and shows his best year ever, they are unable to give him a fair market value contract.  They wanted to re-sign Bo... now they seemingly can't.

 

They signed Kuzmenko out of the KHL because they thought he could be a high scoring forward in the NHL.  But despite the glowing reports of their own Scouts surprisingly, they didn't budget for the cost in re-signing him if he performed as they projected he would.  When they signed him initially, they could have locked him down for a couple years at a bargain price... but they preferred to be cheap and make it only one year.  Now they are up against the CAP limit again when it comes to his contract.

 

This was supposed to be a veteran management group, with vast experience and the knowledge of how to operate within CAP limits.  But what they have shown is the opposite.  They are getting caught out like a bunch of Rookie GM's.

Now they are in desperation mode... trying to unload Horvat, trying to unload Boeser, etc.  Most likely they will not get value for assets because other GM's know they are desperate.  It is possible they will lose Horvat for nothing.... in the same way Benning lost Markstrom, Tanev and Edler for nothing.

 

Now I am hoping they do pull the rabbit out of the hat and somehow unload excess CAP as well as re-signing Horvat... but it is looking like this is a real longshot.

 

Management owns this whole situation.

The Benning fanboys desperate  to absolve  dim jim B of all wrong doing and lay 100% of the teams problems in the new guys… hilarious.. and then say but it’s Gillis fault for dim  jim stupidity 7 years after gillis was gone. Lolololol.

Benning sucked and he will go down in franchise history as sucking. 

 

it’s ALL of them jim left no prospect no depth and a shit show of crappy contracts on underperforming vets. Garland Myers OEL pearson Poolman dead cap on buyouts…and the over all direction. so yeah he shares the blame.

 

new guys made a huge mistake not selling high at  last years deadline creating cap and  depth instead they chose to macimize drama and go full circus side show. 
 

Jim Benning screwed this team and the effects of his incredible  stupidity will be felt for more than just 13 months. 
 

Owners JB Jr/pa all share the blame for the current stat of this joke of a franchise. 
 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by combover

[DSVII]

The statute of limitations is 8 years and counting based on the "but Gillis!"  Crowd.

 

Benning isn't getting off this easy. Just look at our 13 million dollar replacement level D-pairing as ONE of the many legacies he left behind which will have impacts for years to come.

 

That being said. When a rookie management group and a vet management group are making the same mistakes and having the same bad optics. It's the ownership. Full stop.

Edited January 26, 2023 by DSVII

[iceman64]

2 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

I agree, but there's still some cooking to be done in the kitchen.  We'll see what JR does to rid the team of the floaters in the next few weeks and see if he can fix our defence properly.   Unravelling Jim Bennings mess will take some time.

It was a mess from day one of this franchise, don't kid yourself..  only a complete idiot would think otherwise, why? Simple, buying depthless rosters at the demand of fans has ALWAYS sank us, this is nothing new.

[131313]

3 hours ago, combover said:

The Benning fanboys desperate  to absolve  dim jim B of all wrong doing and lay 100% of the teams problems in the new guys… hilarious.. and then say but it’s Gillis fault for dim  jim stupidity 7 years after gillis was gone. Lolololol.

Benning sucked and he will go down in franchise history as sucking. 

 

it’s ALL of them jim left no prospect no depth and a shit show of crappy contracts on underperforming vets. Garland Myers OEL pearson Poolman dead cap on buyouts…and the over all direction. so yeah he shares the blame.

 

new guys made a huge mistake not selling high at  last years deadline creating cap and  depth instead they chose to macimize drama and go full circus side show. 
 

Jim Benning screwed this team and the effects of his incredible  stupidity will be felt for more than just 13 months. 
 

Owners JB Jr/pa all share the blame for the current stat of this joke of a franchise. 
 

 

 

Benning was bad and fixing the problem in 13 months was probably never going to happen but the current management group has actually made the team even worse. The Miller deal made no sense, they have nothing new in the prospect pool, they might have ruined the couple of prospects they had, and they hired a tank coach too late and without moving out the players to make it easy to tank. Only the Canucks could fail to lose successfully.

[canuck73_3]

On 1/25/2023 at 4:18 PM, *Buzzsaw* said:

Benning has been gone for more than a year.

 

The current management group had a chance to make decisions and reverse some of the negative trends which Benning had started.

 

They should have had the information they needed.

 

Yet they made the decisions to sign Miller and qualify and extend Boeser.  And they made the decision to sign Ilya Mikheyev.

 

All of those decisions led to where the team is now... unable to sign Horvat because the team will go over its CAP limit.  And probably unable to sign Kuzmenko for the same reason.

 

They are now in the position of potentially losing both players... two the of the three best players on the team this year.  (other obviously is Pettersson)

 

They put themselves in this position by not anticipating or making allowance for what should have been obvious.

 

They knew Bo Horvat would be in the last year of his contract before UFA... the experience of watching other UFA's over the years should have told them players pull out all the stops and work the hardest in the last year before UFA... but they didn't take that into account...  Rutherford admitted as much in his interview... he said they had budgeted for Bo producing at a similar rate this year as he did in 2021/2022... even though he had improved every year and was still young.  Now when Bo steps up and shows his best year ever, they are unable to give him a fair market value contract.  They wanted to re-sign Bo... now they seemingly can't.

 

They signed Kuzmenko out of the KHL because they thought he could be a high scoring forward in the NHL.  But despite the glowing reports of their own Scouts surprisingly, they didn't budget for the cost in re-signing him if he performed as they projected he would.  When they signed him initially, they could have locked him down for a couple years at a bargain price... but they preferred to be cheap and make it only one year.  Now they are up against the CAP limit again when it comes to his contract.

 

This was supposed to be a veteran management group, with vast experience and the knowledge of how to operate within CAP limits.  But what they have shown is the opposite.  They are getting caught out like a bunch of Rookie GM's.

Now they are in desperation mode... trying to unload Horvat, trying to unload Boeser, etc.  Most likely they will not get value for assets because other GM's know they are desperate.  It is possible they will lose Horvat for nothing.... in the same way Benning lost Markstrom, Tanev and Edler for nothing.

 

Now I am hoping they do pull the rabbit out of the hat and somehow unload excess CAP as well as re-signing Horvat... but it is looking like this is a real longshot.

 

Management owns this whole situation.

The only option for any team signing Kuzmenko was a 1 year deal for any team it was never possible for anyone to sign him beyond a year.