[Trade] Canucks trade Bo Horvat to Islanders for Anthony Beauvillier, Aatu Raty, 2023 1st-round draft pick

[steviewonder20]

3 hours ago, 5nothincanucksohno said:

I included Benning but is also on Bo for not building any accountability on the ice...that is where it matters the most. Shitty wingers have been with EP' as well and he still drives play. Bo doesn't drive play and I am glad there is a new leadership structure in place. I have nothing against Bo but I want to see the Canucks in the playoffs and they now have a chance next year...that was never happening with Bo as the Captain. 

Big difference between Bo and Petey. Bo is an above average player while Petey is a superstar. Petey can make anyone look good (like the new Bo) or make any opponent look bad.

[Ted Lasso]

curious if those who played at a competitive level agree with the above, and how they would evaluate Horvat as a Captain

[Ted Lasso]

@Darius and @Toews what made Horvat anything better than a ‘fine’ Captain?

Do you have an argument, or are you just content to defend any criticism, and  applaud any praise for Bo?

[Ted Lasso]

Well, that’s 0/1.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by Kenny Powers

[Dr. Crossbar]

15 minutes ago, Kenny Powers said:

curious if those who played at a competitive level agree with the above, and how they would evaluate Horvat as a Captain

Thanks for the tag. I've said that numerous times across several years.

 

And it's interesting for me because I have this memory that stands out from when the Sedins were still on the team, their final season. Fans and the media were consistently referring to Horvat as the next captain, successor to Hank, and I noticed after a game was finished that Horvat made sure he was the last off the ice and congratulated each player as they went off the ice.

 

Hank was still captain and it just felt like Horvat was trying too hard to play the role. It was awkward looking and contrived. It was like he was "playing" future captain rather than it happening organically. It's just something I never forgot and it certainly wasn't a bad thing but I do think he felt like he had to act more captain-like given all the talk.

 

And keep in mind ... Immediately after he became a Canuck, even before he played a game, people were saying things like ... "There's our future captain." It was all way, WAY too soon. 

 

It really did become clear when other prospects arrived ... and recently in Petey's on-ice leadership, Miller's passion and leadership through the Covid situation, Hughes beginning to lead and be more vocal ... even the arrival of a former captain in OEL ... Horvat started to appear more average. That's not to say he wasn't one of our best players, key faceoff guy, and a good leader. He just quickly became expendable while also representing the older era of the past decade. 

 

I'd say he was a decent captain at a time of transition that will be remembered fondly as a nice guy. I'm not sure about Ring of Honor material ... maybe ... we'll see. 

 

As for that article, as you aptly mention ... it's an attempt to capture what makes a good C ... but fails and is too one dimensional and far far too absolute. It also seems really biased against a guy like Miller - in fact, the piece feels very anti-Miller, and doesn't capture the nuances and dynamics of different types of leaders.

 

I mean, this says it all to me ... and reads like it was written by someone who hasn't played the game ... and inexperienced.

 

"While there is nothing wrong with a good goal celebration, a good captain knows not to get too emotional ... "

 

Lol ... ridiculous to say such a thing. If you played the game at a competitive level, and have played with many captains, you'd already know that isn't true. The article is riddled with things like this and should be much more in-depth from many more angles of personality, leadership, the game, and human nature. 

[iceman64]

1 hour ago, steviewonder20 said:

Hmm, I think JB locked in and traded for some more locked in contracts, so yes, epic fail by JB to trade away so many picks, deplete our prospect pool and get us aging slow players in return. Current management has their hands tied but I do have some faith in them.

Yeah I can't really blame either MG or JB really, MG had put together a really good roster but didn't have the depth to cover, especially on D but then to JB being handed the twins to at least keep ppl in the seats, sort of.. 

 LE was supposed to help with that, and believe me I loathe that guy, then Guddy to toughen up the D, same with Train, etc etc and although it was good in theory on both counts of both GM's, but yep fail.. However losing L.B. was a major blow too.

 It's been one thing after another but either way we can't keep swimming along against the tide, without depth, just like any other team, we're F'd! 

 Anyway unless JR and AL bring in depth.. nothing is going to change

[Elias Pettersson]

So, at the end of the day Horvat didn't even get 40 goals this year, when he was on a pace for 62 at one point.  He also just hit 70 points, when he was on a pace for 90.  Kuzmenko ended up with better overall numbers than Horvat:

 

Andrei Kuzmenko - 39 goals and 72 points (1 game left) - $5.5 million

JT Miller - 31 goals and 80 points (1 game left) - $8 million

Bo Horvat - 38 goals and 70 points - $8.5 million

 

The "little things" are costing NYI around $3 million.  And I will tell you that for free...

 

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[cripplereh]

I like free stuff thanks for the freebie!!! :D

[Ted Lasso]

10 hours ago, Kenny Powers said:

@Darius and @Toews what made Horvat anything better than a ‘fine’ Captain?

Do you have an argument, or are you just content to defend any criticism, and  applaud any praise for Bo?

…and 0/2 

 

Guess you’re just a couple kids defending your hero. That’s sweet.

[steviewonder20]

6 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

So, at the end of the day Horvat didn't even get 40 goals this year, when he was on a pace for 62 at one point.  He also just hit 70 points, when he was on a pace for 90.  Kuzmenko ended up with better overall numbers than Horvat:

 

Andrei Kuzmenko - 39 goals and 72 points (1 game left) - $5.5 million

JT Miller - 31 goals and 80 points (1 game left) - $8 million

Bo Horvat - 38 goals and 70 points - $8.5 million

 

The "little things" are costing NYI around $3 million.  And I will tell you that for free...

 

 

Just to keep things clear, Horvat’s 70 points was on his current contract which is not 8.5 million and JT isn’t getting 8 million yet either. Do I think Horvat will be worth 8.5 next year? No.

[CanucksJay]

6 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

So, at the end of the day Horvat didn't even get 40 goals this year, when he was on a pace for 62 at one point.  He also just hit 70 points, when he was on a pace for 90.  Kuzmenko ended up with better overall numbers than Horvat:

 

Andrei Kuzmenko - 39 goals and 72 points (1 game left) - $5.5 million

JT Miller - 31 goals and 80 points (1 game left) - $8 million

Bo Horvat - 38 goals and 70 points - $8.5 million

 

The "little things" are costing NYI around $3 million.  And I will tell you that for free...

 

 

Still, I feel like NY got what they wanted which was to make the playoffs. Lou really needed that. 

So glad PA didn't allow teams to negotiate contract before trade or the whole thing probably would have blown up. 

Despite not putting up points, at one point, islanders fans still seemed happy with Bo's play and being dependable in crucial situations. Has that sentiment changed? 

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, steviewonder20 said:

Just to keep things clear, Horvat’s 70 points was on his current contract which is not 8.5 million and JT isn’t getting 8 million yet either. Do I think Horvat will be worth 8.5 next year? No.

Just looking at Bo compared to JTM for points, and over the last 4-5 years Bo averages 55 points and JTM 75 points. Bo is worth about 6 per and JTM is worth 8.5 per. Then factor in the "little things" and Bo is worth 12 per! 

[Kevin Biestra]

2 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Still, I feel like NY got what they wanted which was to make the playoffs. Lou really needed that. 

So glad PA didn't allow teams to negotiate contract before trade or the whole thing probably would have blown up. 

Despite not putting up points, at one point, islanders fans still seemed happy with Bo's play and being dependable in crucial situations. Has that sentiment changed? 

 

That was a very "Canucks" kind of move though.  Trade away good future stuff and blow a ton of money to just squeak into the last playoff position.

 

Oh well, at least it's better than the Canucks who do that to miss the playoffs by a few points.

[Kevin Biestra]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Just looking at Bo compared to JTM for points, and over the last 4-5 years Bo averages 55 points and JTM 75 points. Bo is worth about 6 per and JTM is worth 8.5 per. Then factor in the "little things" and Bo is worth 12 per! 

 

$500K-1M surplus a year per little thing is a pretty good deal.

[Elias Pettersson]

5 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Just looking at Bo compared to JTM for points, and over the last 4-5 years Bo averages 55 points and JTM 75 points. Bo is worth about 6 per and JTM is worth 8.5 per. Then factor in the "little things" and Bo is worth 12 per! 

I think Miller does the “little things” better than Horvat. He even does extra little things that Horvat will never do. 
 

I mean if Mrs. Alf cooked for you and also cleaned the house weekly and did all your laundry too would you not give her much more attention?  

[NewbieCanuckFan]

49 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I think Miller does the “little things” better than Horvat. He even does extra little things that Horvat will never do. 

I don't recall Schenn getting into a pretty big "verbal discussion" with Horvat over a certain kind of behavior on the ice (aka "little things") like he did with Miller.

[SilentSam]

JB ‘s worst acquisition was hiring W Desjardins in my opinion.. 

 

Any information coming from the the bench or room was based on his assessments.

Why did we hang on to , or even acquire the likes of Chaput, Megna , and other players who had Junior Lineage/ Affiliation to WD?

Why was a player with much potential in NTryamkin shunned and thrown under a bus, when worse players like Sbisa were treated better?

Why was Megna getting 300% of Goldoblins ice time?

We traded a 2nd round pick for Linden Vey, also a Desjardins Junior player.

It was an absolutely incestual time.   

I’m sure there are more connections.

.. and how did we acquire Desjardins??

 

Lindens affiliation with his alma mater WHL Team , the Medicine Hat Tigers comes into question I think.

 

Nice to see WD is back with them , running them into the ground too.

 

Desjardins was the worst thing to happen to this franchise when that really was the start of the REBUILD.

It needed a more seasoned NHL Coach .

          

 

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

6 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

I don't recall Schenn getting into a pretty big "verbal discussion" with Horvat over a certain kind of behavior on the ice (aka "little things") like he did with Miller.

Miller does "extra" little things that aren't even necessary really...   

[canuck73_3]

12 hours ago, Kenny Powers said:

Are you not capable of stating what a Captain’s role should be? 

The bulk of the Captains role is both media availability, and being able to approach officials to discuss key in game matters. This is why I find it funny when guys like you expect a captain to singlehandedly lift a team to success, 

 

Success comes from a group of leaders, not a letter on a jersey. I've said many times here fans greatly overrate the value of a letter. The letter is virtually meaningless without a solid group of core leaders. Guys like Glenn Anderson, Paul Coffey, Marty McSorley, Grant Fuhr ect had as much to do with the succes of the Oilers Dynasty as Gretzky and Messier as far as leadership goes. 

[canuck73_3]

7 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Miller does "extra" little things that aren't even necessary really...   

You can't just sweep Miller's flaws under the rug, he's been good to great since the new year. But he did have some warts in his game early in the year.