Lottery Draw process

[King Heffy]

Just now, -AJ- said:

Agree with this thinking. Too many people won't even give the NHL an opportunity to prove their honesty. Because they've already decided that they're dishonest, there's no way to convince them otherwise. It's perfectly reasonable to expect someone or a company to do what they can to show their honesty if they understand that others don't trust them--yet they still get criticized.

 

To say that they should've been more transparent from the beginning is retrospective and doesn't focus on the current issue--instead using past potential offenses to permanently indict the NHL without any chance at redemption.

The problem is that the NHL's repeated misconduct means that no reasonable person is going to give the current regime the benefit of the doubt.  The only real solution is to get rid of Bettman and his cronies and hire someone who actually cares about honesty and integrity.  There is no redemption possible for the criminals currently running the league.

[24K PureCool]

4 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

A company that implodes certainly isn't the fault of the auditors. Auditors are responsible for ensuring that financial reporting is accurate within materiality. Contrary to popular belief, they're not explicitly responsible for seeking out fraud nor are they at all responsible for the financial success of a company. 

OK how about their gigantic fines for employees cheating on ethics. 

 

K not saying NHL is up to rigging the whole things but having these big 4 accounting firms all with shady records shouldn't make anyone feel better about anything. 

[-AJ-]

11 minutes ago, 24K PureCool said:

OK how about their gigantic fines for employees cheating on ethics. 

 

K not saying NHL is up to rigging the whole things but having these big 4 accounting firms all with shady records shouldn't make anyone feel better about anything. 

Again, auditors aren't responsible for confirming the ethical conduct of management. Don't get me wrong, if an auditor has a good reason to suspect fraud, they have a responsibility to report it, but they have no obligation to seek it out. The blame for other ethical issues would reside with internal operations or other groups that are more focused on general business conduct, such as the Better Business Bureau or, in BC, the Ministry of Labour perhaps.

[Chicken.]

2 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

Again, auditors aren't responsible for confirming the ethical conduct of management. Don't get me wrong, if an auditor has a good reason to suspect fraud, they have a responsibility to report it, but they have no obligation to seek it out. The blame for other ethical issues would reside with internal operations or other groups that are more focused on general business conduct, such as the Better Business Bureau or, in BC, the Ministry of Labour perhaps.

It was EY paying the $100 million fine for their staff (auditors) cheating on ethics exams, not one of their clients. definitely a bad look for them but such a big firm things happen i suppose.

 

https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2022-114 

 

[-AJ-]

9 minutes ago, Chicken. said:

It was EY paying the $100 million fine for their staff (auditors) cheating on ethics exams, not one of their clients. definitely a bad look for them but such a big firm things happen i suppose.

 

https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2022-114 

 

Ah yeah, that could be a fair bit of suspicion on them. Whether or not they were supporting the cheating might be another discussion, but at the very least, it's suspicious if a lot of their hires are cheating compared to the hires of other accounting firms.

[grumpyone]

still easy to be rigged... everyone present HAS TO SIGN a nondisclosure agreement with a $50 million penalty for breaking it. there rigged and no one would dare to say anything against it. 

 

[grandmaster]

2 hours ago, UnkNuk said:

This may be redundant as many people here may already know all about this but if not...

 

There's a good article in "The Athletic" about the lottery draw process:

 

https://theathletic.com/4453404/2023/05/05/nhl-draft-lottery-format-rules-odds/?source=dailyemail&campaign=601983

 

Something I didn't know:  when they actually draw the balls to determine the draft order, every team eligible for the lottery has a representative there to watch the draw.  Then the representatives are secluded for a couple of hours until the results are announced to the public and the team gm's on tv.

 

A video of the draw is released after the results are announced.  Here's the video from the 2022 draw (with a rather lengthy explanation of how the process works from Gary B.)

 

 

So how sure are we that there is at least one of them balls in that bin that say Canucks? Also if we did and we won, I can guarantee this pre recorded video would have another take…

 

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by grandmaster

[Chicken.]

1 minute ago, -AJ- said:

Ah yeah, that could be a fair bit of suspicion on them. Whether or not they were supporting the cheating might be another discussion, but at the very least, it's suspicious if a lot of their hires are cheating compared to the hires of other accounting firms.

Not only were they aware of the cheating but they intentionally mislead the SEC and had to admit to doing so;

 

Real stain on their reputation imo

Surprised the nhl didnt switch it up to kpmg or deloitte or something tbh

 

EY further admits that during the Enforcement Division’s investigation of potential cheating at the firm, EY made a submission conveying to the Division that EY did not have current issues with cheating when, in fact, the firm had been informed of potential cheating on a CPA ethics exam. EY also admits that it did not correct its submission even after it launched an internal investigation into cheating on CPA ethics and other exams and confirmed there had been cheating, and even after its senior lawyers discussed the matter with members of the firm’s senior management. And as the Order finds, EY did not cooperate in the SEC’s investigation regarding its materially misleading submission.

 

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

1 hour ago, CR7 said:

At least each team has a representative watching. I'm sure they can only rig it so much with all those eyes watching. Maybe Canucks rep can bring bags filled with money to bribe Gary B for first overall. Pay everyone else to look away. Hahaha, wishful thinking. 

1. Who is the shadiest owner?

2. Who is willing to spend lots of extra cash for the team?

 

The day these two questions get the same answer is the day that team wins the lottery.

[-AJ-]

7 minutes ago, Chicken. said:

Not only were they aware of the cheating but they intentionally mislead the SEC and had to admit to doing so;

 

Real stain on their reputation imo

Surprised the nhl didnt switch it up to kpmg or deloitte or something tbh

 

EY further admits that during the Enforcement Division’s investigation of potential cheating at the firm, EY made a submission conveying to the Division that EY did not have current issues with cheating when, in fact, the firm had been informed of potential cheating on a CPA ethics exam. EY also admits that it did not correct its submission even after it launched an internal investigation into cheating on CPA ethics and other exams and confirmed there had been cheating, and even after its senior lawyers discussed the matter with members of the firm’s senior management. And as the Order finds, EY did not cooperate in the SEC’s investigation regarding its materially misleading submission.

 

Yeah, that's pretty indefensible. A huge stain on their credibility. You would hope the NHL would change it up then.

[J-Dizzle]

Anyone who thinks the draft is rigged is ignoring the fact that the Oilers have dominated the lottery for the last decade. 

[Curmudgeon]

1 hour ago, UnkNuk said:

But doesn't this put the NHL in a no-win situation?

 

If they don't go to great lengths to portray themselves as transparent, people will claim they're hiding something.

 

If they do go to great lengths to portray themselves as transparent, people will claim they're feeling guilty about something.

This reminds me of the scene in the Life of Brian where Brian is chased down by some worshippers who claim he is the Messiah. But I'm not the Messiah, he says. The crowd responds, only the true Messiah denies that he is the Messiah. Brian, exasperated, says Alright then, I am the Messiah. Crowd: He IS the Messiah. So Brian, like the NHL, can't win no matter what he says.

[grandmaster]

1 minute ago, J-Dizzle said:

Anyone who thinks the draft is rigged is ignoring the fact that the Oilers have dominated the lottery for the last decade. 

Good point but I think Edmonton has a stronger stake under the Board of Governors unlike FA. We got a Cap recapture penalty for Luongo’s contract when it was perfectly legal under league rules (nevermind all the garbage refereeing in the 2011 Finals). I think FA is a punk among the owners, has no power whatsoever and does what is asked. 

[Elias Pettersson]

The draft lottery is monitored by a representative from each NHL team.  It is also overseen by Ernst & Young.  On top of that it is filmed and played after the lottery is over.  On top of all of that the Candian teams have been the biggest beneficiaries of the lottery over the last several years, Edmonton with 4 #1 picks and getting McDavid, Toronto getting the #1 pick and drafting Matthews, Montreal getting the #1 pick.

 

Canadian teams have had the #1 pick in 6 of the last 13 lotteries.  Not sure how anyone can think the draft lottery is actually rigged...

[grandmaster]

2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

The draft lottery is monitored by a representative from each NHL team.  It is also overseen by Ernst & Young.  On top of that it is filmed and played after the lottery is over.  On top of all of that the Candian teams have been the biggest beneficiaries of the lottery over the last several years, Edmonton with 4 #1 picks and getting McDavid, Toronto getting the #1 pick and drafting Matthews, Montreal getting the #1 pick.

 

Canadian teams have had the #1 pick in 6 of the last 13 lotteries.  Not sure how anyone can think the draft lottery is actually rigged...

Corruption my friend. I don’t trust this firm “monitoring”. Bettman hates FA. Our sleezeball owner probably slept with other owner wives or something. 
 

Lottery might be legit for other teams but not us

[babych]

1 hour ago, -AJ- said:

Agree with this thinking. Too many people won't even give the NHL an opportunity to prove their honesty. Because they've already decided that they're dishonest, there's no way to convince them otherwise. It's perfectly reasonable to expect someone or a company to do what they can to show their honesty if they understand that others don't trust them--yet they still get criticized.

 

To say that they should've been more transparent from the beginning is retrospective and doesn't focus on the current issue--instead using past potential offenses to permanently indict the NHL without any chance at redemption.

Further to this... I don't understand why so many of these (likely) same people continue to watch hockey and complain? If everything is rigged then the NHL is basically the WWE and thus why would you bother getting so worked up about it?

[Elias Pettersson]

13 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

Corruption my friend. I don’t trust this firm “monitoring”. Bettman hates FA. Our sleezeball owner probably slept with other owner wives or something. 
 

Lottery might be legit for other teams but not us

So, the lottery is rigged only against Vancouver?  How so?  How do they rig it only for one team?

[flat land fish]

5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

So, the lottery is rigged only against Vancouver?  How so?  How do they rig it only for one team?

Exactly the franchise has had incredibly poor luck as it relates to the lottery and some other things.  I refuse to live like a victim on stuff like this.  A year like this one we basically have everything to gain and nothing to lose through the lottery process.  We will either draft another good player and if luck is on our side we will draft a spectacular one.

[Hairy Kneel]

1 hour ago, UnkNuk said:

In regards to the lottery, how would they do that?

No hidden behind closed doors meeting. Do that whole shebang one time. Put your bingo balls up front and Centre. Let's see em. 

[Elias Pettersson]

10 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

No hidden behind closed doors meeting. Do that whole shebang one time. Put your bingo balls up front and Centre. Let's see em. 

The reason they do the lottery behind closed doors is so that when they televise it they already know the 2 winners, so they can go through the process of all 16 teams and do a countdown.  If they simply showed the actual lottery live on tv, then everyone would know who the two winners were and there would be no dramatic tv countdown.  It's all for tv and viewers.  It would be kinda boring just watching the actual balls drop.  The way they do it on tv with all the GM's watching and waiting and doing a countdown from 16 to 1 is much more dramatic and made for tv...