[article] Could that extra $3-4 million in rumoured cap space fix everything for the Canucks this offseason?

[Elias Pettersson]

27 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Doom mongers?

False Narrative?

 

Just curious.  What....is false about these numbers again?  Even with a $4 million increase.  Just you know, asking what is false about any of that

We actually have 21 players for $84,168,750.  Mikheyev, Poolman and Pearson show on IR.  If Poolman and Mikhyev start with the team then that is 20 players.  If the cap goes up to $86,500,000, then that gives us $2.3 million to sign Bear and Kravtsov.  Or we can let Bear walk or trade his rights and sign Schenn.  That extra $2.3 million should cover it.  Also, I would bet big money that Pearson will be on LTIR, which would free up an additional $3.25 million in cap space.  Also, they are actively shopping Garland, so I expect Garland to be traded as well.  That's another $5 million.

 

So we will have lots of cap space available to sign our RFA's plus a 3C and another Dman...

[Dr. Crossbar]

2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

We actually have 21 players for $84,168,750.  Mikheyev, Poolman and Pearson show on IR.  If Poolman and Mikhyev start with the team then that is 20 players.  If the cap goes up to $86,500,000, then that gives us $2.3 million to sign Bear and Kravtsov.  Or we can let Bear walk or trade his rights and sign Schenn.  That extra $2.3 million should cover it.  Also, I would bet big money that Pearson will be on LTIR, which would free up an additional $3.25 million in cap space.  Also, they are actively shopping Garland, so I expect Garland to be traded as well.  That's another $5 million.

 

So we will have lots of cap space available to sign our RFA's plus a 3C and another Dman...

This is neither doom or false.

[Elias Pettersson]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

This is neither doom or false.

Thank God I aced my Calculus and Economics classes at UBC.  Sauder School taught me well...   

[Warhippy]

6 minutes ago, BCNate said:

With LTIR we have 9 million to spend if the cap goes up 4 million.  We will have a full roster at that.  Really it is an issue of shifting $ and re allocating money from the wing to D and C to improve the team.  Once Myers and Pearson are off the books after next year, OEL is the only bad $ on the books.

While I understand the idea of shifting assets and diminshing contracts etc.

 

We at that point in time will still need to revamp the d-core, still need a quality rhc, 3rd line center and quality 3rd line winger while still managing to obtain the elusive RHD in a time where pettersson and now Hronek will need new contracts and a few others.

 

On paper it looks easy, but the truth is it won't be.

[Shekky]

the extra 4 mil gives the Canucks time for some of the bad contracts to expire. Unfortunately I am pretty sure Allvin will spend that extra 4 mil on another bloated contract.

[smithers joe]

if it helps them get a good 3c and a stay at home d-man, i'm for it.

[eeeeergh]

2 hours ago, Kenny Powers said:

https://canucksarmy.com/news/extra-3-4-million-rumoured-cap-space-fix-everything-canucks-offseason

 

This would buy us time to make transactions for optimal returns, open up more trade partners, and reduce the leverage of teams like Chicago. It also takes the pressure off buyout decisions.
 

As the team with the highest cap spending, we seem to benefit the most from this…

Tbh your point about reducing the leverage of teams like chicago is exactly the biggest benefit

 

all of a sudden, the trade market value of "cap space" plummets

and the trade market value of some of our players goes up - Garland, Boeser, etc.

 

[Warhippy]

19 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

We actually have 21 players for $84,168,750.  Mikheyev, Poolman and Pearson show on IR.  If Poolman and Mikhyev start with the team then that is 20 players.  If the cap goes up to $86,500,000, then that gives us $2.3 million to sign Bear and Kravtsov.  Or we can let Bear walk or trade his rights and sign Schenn.  That extra $2.3 million should cover it.  Also, I would bet big money that Pearson will be on LTIR, which would free up an additional $3.25 million in cap space.  Also, they are actively shopping Garland, so I expect Garland to be traded as well.  That's another $5 million.

 

So we will have lots of cap space available to sign our RFA's plus a 3C and another Dman...

Let's just be brutally clear here.  This is an issue that has plagued this club for over a decade and is in no way shape or form going to end all of a sudden.  Just because the cap goes up, does not mean teams will want our magic beans and dull toys.  Just because the cap goes up does not mean we will magically be able tor evamp a blue line.  A cap increase in fact right now is scary with petterssons new contract coming.  it also means all UFA's will want more and depending if Hronek is healthy and can produce he also will want more.  If Hronek shows up for 66 games and manages 40 ish points he'll ask for $7.8 million minimum.

 

While we are potentially well positioned now with this potential news.  NOTHING is confirmed and we are in fact in cap trouble.  We have thus far been unable to trade large contracts over the past 3-4 years at all and longer.  If I am pessimistic here it is because I have good reason to be.  At this stage of things plan for the worst and hope for the best but we have a historical basis here to rely on.  We are currrently in cap trouble.  We will still be in cap trouble until this is confirmed and if it is the maximum and then confirmed we will still be in cap trouble fighting with 13 other teams for the exact same UFAs; who will be asking for more with a cap increase

 

I do believe we are potentially well positioned to move assets and gain space with an increase.  but until such time as it is confirmed and something happens, I will not get excited.

 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Warhippy

[Elias Pettersson]

9 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

While I understand the idea of shifting assets and diminshing contracts etc.

 

We at that point in time will still need to revamp the d-core, still need a quality rhc, 3rd line center and quality 3rd line winger while still managing to obtain the elusive RHD in a time where pettersson and now Hronek will need new contracts and a few others.

 

On paper it looks easy, but the truth is it won't be.

I believe we obtained that player in Hronek.  The rest of the RHD will be filled with guys we already have in the system and maybe getting back Schenn.  At this point , I don't see us acquiring another high priced RHD to play with Hughes.  Schenn could be that guy and if we need to load up then we play Hughes and Hronek together.  That is the plan.  On the left side, it seems OEL will be kicking around for awhile longer, so we need that big stay a home Dman for the 3rd pairing and we also have Hirose to move into the 3rd pairing role.  

[Elias Pettersson]

2 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Let's just be brutally clear here.  This is an issue that has plagued this club for over a decade and is in no way shape or form going to end all of a sudden.  Just because the cap goes up, does not mean teams will want our magic beans and dull toys.  Just because the cap goes up does not mean we will magically be able tor evamp a blue line.  A cap increase in fact right now is scary with petterssons new contract coming.  it also means all UFA's will want more and depending if Hronek is healthy and can produce he also will want more.  If Hronek shows up for 66 games and manages 40 ish points he'll ask for $7.8 million minimum.

 

While we are potentially well positioned now with this potential news.  NOTHING is confirmed and we are in fact in cap trouble.  We have thus far been unable to trade large contracts over the past 3-4 years at all and longer.  If I am pessimistic here it is because I have good reason to be.  At this stage of things plan for the worst and hope for the best but we have a historical basis here to rely on.  We are currrently in cap trouble.  We will still be in cap trouble until this is confirmed and if it is the maximum and then confirmed we will still be in cap trouble fighting with 13 other teams for the exact same UFAs; who will be asking for more with a cap increase

 

I do believe we are potentially well positioned to move assets and gain space with an increase.  but until such time as it is confirmed and something happens, I will not get excited.

 

Didn't we trade Hamonic with no retention and actually got a 3rd round pick back?  I feel we can do the same with Garland.  Also, Beauvillier, Myers and Pearson are off the books next season.  That's over $13 million in new cap space next season along with probably another $2-3 million in increase of the cap.  That's plenty to cover the Petey and Hronek extensions.  Klimovich, Raty, Hirose, Lekkerimaki, McDonough, Petey D and Karlsson are all guys that look like they can make the club in the next two years as well, so we will have multiple new ELC contracts coming in.

[canuck73_3]

9 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Let's just be brutally clear here.  This is an issue that has plagued this club for over a decade and is in no way shape or form going to end all of a sudden.  Just because the cap goes up, does not mean teams will want our magic beans and dull toys.  Just because the cap goes up does not mean we will magically be able tor evamp a blue line.  A cap increase in fact right now is scary with petterssons new contract coming.  it also means all UFA's will want more and depending if Hronek is healthy and can produce he also will want more.  If Hronek shows up for 66 games and manages 40 ish points he'll ask for $7.8 million minimum.

 

While we are potentially well positioned now with this potential news.  NOTHING is confirmed and we are in fact in cap trouble.  We have thus far been unable to trade large contracts over the past 3-4 years at all and longer.  If I am pessimistic here it is because I have good reason to be.  At this stage of things plan for the worst and hope for the best but we have a historical basis here to rely on.  We are currrently in cap trouble.  We will still be in cap trouble until this is confirmed and if it is the maximum and then confirmed we will still be in cap trouble fighting with 13 other teams for the exact same UFAs; who will be asking for more with a cap increase

 

I do believe we are potentially well positioned to move assets and gain space with an increase.  but until such time as it is confirmed and something happens, I will not get excited.

 

Teams trade Dull toys every offseason, we did last year with Hamonic too. Not all doom and gloom

[BCNate]

8 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Didn't we trade Hamonic with no retention and actually got a 3rd round pick back?  I feel we can do the same with Garland.  Also, Beauvillier, Myers and Pearson are off the books next season.  That's over $13 million in new cap space next season along with probably another $2-3 million in increase of the cap.  That's plenty to cover the Petey and Hronek extensions.  Klimovich, Raty, Hirose, Lekkerimaki, McDonough, Petey D and Karlsson are all guys that look like they can make the club in the next two years as well, so we will have multiple new ELC contracts coming in.

This may be the worst group of UFA forwards I've ever seen.  Garland and Boeser will have value on the trade market for sure, even if we have to retain a bit on Boeser.  

PLAYER	TEAM	AGE	POS	HANDED	GP	G	A	P	P/GP	+/-	Sh	Sh%	TOI	W	L	SO	GAA	Sv%	CLAUSE	EXPIRY	CAP HIT	SALARY
1. Alex Killorn	TBL	33	RW, LW	Left	82	27	37	64	0.78	18	143	0.19	17:12	-	-	-	-	-	M-NTC	UFA	$4,450,000	$4,450,000
2. Patrice Bergeron	BOS	37	C	Right	78	27	31	58	0.74	35	249	0.11	17:23	-	-	-	-	-	NMC	UFA	$2,500,000	$2,500,000
3. Patrick Kane	NYR	34	RW	Left	73	21	36	57	0.78	-22	227	0.09	19:18	-	-	-	-	-	NMC	UFA	$10,500,000	$6,900,000
4. Max Domi	DAL	28	C, LW	Left	80	20	36	56	0.70	-15	179	0.11	17:46	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$3,000,000	$3,000,000
5. David Krejci	BOS	37	C	Right	70	16	40	56	0.80	23	112	0.14	17:11	-	-	-	-	-	NTC	UFA	$1,000,000	$1,000,000
6. J.T. Compher	COL	28	C, RW	Right	82	17	35	52	0.63	8	154	0.11	20:32	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$3,500,000	$3,500,000
7. Vladimir Tarasenko	NYR	31	RW	Left	69	18	32	50	0.72	-14	169	0.11	16:48	-	-	-	-	-	NTC	UFA	$7,500,000	$5,500,000
8. Michael Bunting	TOR	27	LW	Left	82	23	26	49	0.60	21	174	0.13	15:47	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$950,000	$1,150,000
9. Tomas Tatar	NJD	32	LW, RW	Left	82	20	28	48	0.59	41	153	0.13	15:07	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$4,500,000	$5,250,000
10. Jason Zucker	PIT	31	LW, RW	Left	78	27	21	48	0.62	-4	197	0.14	15:39	-	-	-	-	-	M-NTC	UFA	$5,500,000	$5,200,000

[Warhippy]

5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I believe we obtained that player in Hronek.  The rest of the RHD will be filled with guys we already have in the system and maybe getting back Schenn.  At this point , I don't see us acquiring another high priced RHD to play with Hughes.  Schenn could be that guy and if we need to load up then we play Hughes and Hronek together.  That is the plan.  On the left side, it seems OEL will be kicking around for awhile longer, so we need that big stay a home Dman for the 3rd pairing and we also have Hirose to move into the 3rd pairing role.  

Let me know when Hronek shows up to camp, isn't injured and plays a season while being defensively responsible.

 

people labelling him as possibly the BEST RHD this club has had since Bieksa are absolutely out to lunch.  Until he produces we currently have done nothing except on paper to fix the RHD issue.  It also doesn't really change much as we still need an RHD with a defensive mind to support QH and that won't be cheap unless Schenn wants to come back.

 

Hirose is even more of a question mark than Hronek but won't want $7+ million in a year so that's something.

 

Just now, Elias Pettersson said:

Didn't we trade Hamonic with no retention and actually got a 3rd round pick back?  I feel we can do the same with Garland.  Also, Beauvillier, Myers and Pearson are off the books next season.  That's over $13 million in new cap space next season along with probably another $2-3 million in increase of the cap.  That's plenty to cover the Petey and Hronek extensions.  Klimovich, Raty, Hirose, Lekkerimaki, McDonough, Petey D and Karlsson are all guys that look like they can make the club in the next two years as well, so we will have multiple new ELC contracts coming in.

We did.  Once.  Good trade no complaints.

 

Beauvillier is actually worth keeping.  Myers will need a replacement, that won't be cheap and will be fought among no less than 16 other NHL teams wanting a top 4 RHD.  Petey getting a new contract, Hronek getting a new contract, replacing Myers, still needing a 3rd line RHC, needing to replace AB on the wing, Podkolzin getting a new contract, bear getting a new contract, it won't be easy.

 

Now that can be taken from the existing team/minors possibly.  But that's a very slim possibility.  

 

Between here and the start of the 24/25 season there will need to be new contracts for or replacements the following if they will still be on the roster to start 24/25:  Pettersson, Kuzmenko, Beauvillier, Podkolzin, Aman, Kravstov, Dakota, Stdnicka, Dries, Myers, Hronek, Bear, Burroughs, Delia.  Keeping in mind that Hronek is looking at almost doubling his contract, Pettersson will get about $3 million more and some of these players could potentially double their existing contracts as well.

 

To end 23/24 or start 24/25 we have 9 players under contract with $33.5 million spent on the cap and need the following after Myers etc is gone.

 

1 back up goalie

1 top 2/4 RHD

1 4-6 RHD

1 4-6 LHD

1 3rd line center

6 wingers

4th line center

 

Again, it won't be easy.  It may change, it may get easier but until such time as we see something actually happen I will remain pessimistic because that is a huge volume of assets to move renew or replace while still holding on to some level of cap space knowing that players will be commanding more $ than ever and that stars like Petey will hold all the advantages in renewing new contracts with a significant increase.

[Ted Lasso]

39 minutes ago, BCNate said:

With LTIR we have 9 million to spend if the cap goes up 4 million.  We will have a full roster at that.  Really it is an issue of shifting $ and re allocating money from the wing to D and C to improve the team.  Once Myers and Pearson are off the books after next year, OEL is the only bad $ on the books.

Agreed.

 

Even without big roster moves, we can definitely take a step and compete for a playoff spot. There will be other injuries and surprises, but Hronek, a healthy Mikheyev, and better systems/coaching should make for a better start.

 

That said, JRPA are very active in the market, and will likely make the most of any additional flexibility.

 

 

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, DSVII said:

We do have cap problems. We're in a position where we may have to pay to trade away a decent winger. How is that false? 

 

As a "doom monger"  I'll add It's mutually exclusive btw. "Doom monger" =/= "we have cap problems". 

 

Especially in the context of the compete now mandate.

 

if we were willing to take a step back. I agree. No cap problems 

It appears no matter what the cap limit is the management group will push it to the limits. I would prefer to keep some extra breathing room for future improvements but it is what it is. It would definitely help although I'll believe it when I see it. I'm not so sure the players union is going to agree to giving up extra to make that happen.

[canuck73_3]

16 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Let me know when Hronek shows up to camp, isn't injured and plays a season while being defensively responsible.

 

people labelling him as possibly the BEST RHD this club has had since Bieksa are absolutely out to lunch.  Until he produces we currently have done nothing except on paper to fix the RHD issue.  It also doesn't really change much as we still need an RHD with a defensive mind to support QH and that won't be cheap unless Schenn wants to come back.

 

Hirose is even more of a question mark than Hronek but won't want $7+ million in a year so that's something.

 

We did.  Once.  Good trade no complaints.

 

Beauvillier is actually worth keeping.  Myers will need a replacement, that won't be cheap and will be fought among no less than 16 other NHL teams wanting a top 4 RHD.  Petey getting a new contract, Hronek getting a new contract, replacing Myers, still needing a 3rd line RHC, needing to replace AB on the wing, Podkolzin getting a new contract, bear getting a new contract, it won't be easy.

 

Now that can be taken from the existing team/minors possibly.  But that's a very slim possibility.  

 

Between here and the start of the 24/25 season there will need to be new contracts for or replacements the following if they will still be on the roster to start 24/25:  Pettersson, Kuzmenko, Beauvillier, Podkolzin, Aman, Kravstov, Dakota, Stdnicka, Dries, Myers, Hronek, Bear, Burroughs, Delia.  Keeping in mind that Hronek is looking at almost doubling his contract, Pettersson will get about $3 million more and some of these players could potentially double their existing contracts as well.

 

To end 23/24 or start 24/25 we have 9 players under contract with $33.5 million spent on the cap and need the following after Myers etc is gone.

 

1 back up goalie

1 top 2/4 RHD

1 4-6 RHD

1 4-6 LHD

1 3rd line center

6 wingers

4th line center

 

Again, it won't be easy.  It may change, it may get easier but until such time as we see something actually happen I will remain pessimistic because that is a huge volume of assets to move renew or replace while still holding on to some level of cap space knowing that players will be commanding more $ than ever and that stars like Petey will hold all the advantages in renewing new contracts with a significant increase.

Sounds like you have never seen Hronek play. 

[Seannnp]

1 hour ago, Fanuck said:

Hoping the cap goes up every year isn't a replacement for wise, fiscal, long-term planning for this organization.  

 

If this happens and the cap does increase - it's just luck for Allvin.  Yes, Benning made a mess of things for sure, but Allvin didn't exactly 'penny pinch' when he took over either to this point. 

 

Allvin has some decisions to make - some hard ones that might rub some people the wrong way - but ones that need to be made to keep this franchise competitive in the long-term.   

Further clarification please? 

 

Where did he spend where he had the option to do otherwise? Miller? I would say that the miller deal was a good deal for him based on what he brings to the team and how hes played since joining the Canucks aside from the beginning of this season. 

 

Mikhayev? Kuzmenko? Team is much better with them than without them and replacement players of similar ilk likely cost much more. Any mistakes that Alvin made (Stillman), he cut his losses quickly. 

 

I think our cap situation is 98% Benning's fault and is a work in progress. Also think that PA is doing the best he can with the hand hes been dealt. I also think that an additional 4m cap space is very advantageous for the Canucks even if we spend on an FA. The benefits are apparent on the increased strength of our position to now deal players that many teams will need to reach the cap floor (Myers) but now also have the freedom to take on players like Garland that have term and money attached. 

[Seannnp]

53 minutes ago, Shekky said:

the extra 4 mil gives the Canucks time for some of the bad contracts to expire. Unfortunately I am pretty sure Allvin will spend that extra 4 mil on another bloated contract.

Like the other bloated contracts hes signed? Sorry cant recall which ones, some help please? 

[DrJockitch]

30 minutes ago, BCNate said:

This may be the worst group of UFA forwards I've ever seen.  Garland and Boeser will have value on the trade market for sure, even if we have to retain a bit on Boeser.  

PLAYER	TEAM	AGE	POS	HANDED	GP	G	A	P	P/GP	+/-	Sh	Sh%	TOI	W	L	SO	GAA	Sv%	CLAUSE	EXPIRY	CAP HIT	SALARY
1. Alex Killorn	TBL	33	RW, LW	Left	82	27	37	64	0.78	18	143	0.19	17:12	-	-	-	-	-	M-NTC	UFA	$4,450,000	$4,450,000
2. Patrice Bergeron	BOS	37	C	Right	78	27	31	58	0.74	35	249	0.11	17:23	-	-	-	-	-	NMC	UFA	$2,500,000	$2,500,000
3. Patrick Kane	NYR	34	RW	Left	73	21	36	57	0.78	-22	227	0.09	19:18	-	-	-	-	-	NMC	UFA	$10,500,000	$6,900,000
4. Max Domi	DAL	28	C, LW	Left	80	20	36	56	0.70	-15	179	0.11	17:46	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$3,000,000	$3,000,000
5. David Krejci	BOS	37	C	Right	70	16	40	56	0.80	23	112	0.14	17:11	-	-	-	-	-	NTC	UFA	$1,000,000	$1,000,000
6. J.T. Compher	COL	28	C, RW	Right	82	17	35	52	0.63	8	154	0.11	20:32	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$3,500,000	$3,500,000
7. Vladimir Tarasenko	NYR	31	RW	Left	69	18	32	50	0.72	-14	169	0.11	16:48	-	-	-	-	-	NTC	UFA	$7,500,000	$5,500,000
8. Michael Bunting	TOR	27	LW	Left	82	23	26	49	0.60	21	174	0.13	15:47	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$950,000	$1,150,000
9. Tomas Tatar	NJD	32	LW, RW	Left	82	20	28	48	0.59	41	153	0.13	15:07	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$4,500,000	$5,250,000
10. Jason Zucker	PIT	31	LW, RW	Left	78	27	21	48	0.62	-4	197	0.14	15:39	-	-	-	-	-	M-NTC	UFA	$5,500,000	$5,200,000

Someone is going to sign Max Domi to a deal they will regret instantly. (Please don’t be us, please don’t be us, Damnit it is going to be us)

[BCNate]

26 minutes ago, Kenny Powers said:

Agreed.

 

Even without big roster moves, we can definitely take a step and compete for a playoff spot. There will be other injuries and surprises, but Hronek, a healthy Mikheyev, and better systems/coaching should make for a better start.

 

That said, JRPA are very active in the market, and will likely make the most of any additional flexibility.

 

 

Most importantly a healthy Demko.  It's no coincidence we started winning when he cam back healthy and played to his normal standard.