Bennings terrible pro scouting and player analysis

[Baggins]

Just now, spook007 said:

 

Another slight spelling mishap...

Not often, but once in a while typos turn out hilarious. 

[spook007]

2 minutes ago, Baggins said:

Not often, but once in a while typos turn out hilarious. 

Aye, good catch amigo 

[aGENT]

On 5/20/2023 at 7:15 PM, Elias Pettersson said:

In all fairness to Benning, he and his scouts drafted McCann and Forsling.  He then signed Stecher, Tanev and Chatfield out of college or as free agents.  So the work was done.  For whatever reason, he and his team decided to move on from them.

 

Lesson to be learned here regardless who the GM is.  Keep these guys in the AHL for as long as you can.  You just never know.  This is why I don't want Hoglander to be traded.  I don't want him to turn into a 25-30 goal scorer with another team.  Even Rathbone I am not inclined to move, if they can keep him as a 7/8 Dman next year and play Hirose in Abby that would be a better situation for now and then re-evaluate after a year...

The problem with Rathbone is that there's no roster spot for him, and likely won't be, with Hughes (and now Hronek) on the roster. IMO we should have moved him like a year or two ago when his value was arguably higher.

 

We should try to get value on him before his value withers on the vine IMO. He's unlikely to see much NHL time, other than injury fill in (where I'm not even sure he'd be first call up at this point, unless maybe it's Hughes out), he's waiver eligible, etc etc...

 

Move him (packaged?) for another player that's also waiver eligible, at a position/player type of greater need.

 

But no, we should not move Hoglander. He's our younger, built in Garland replacement, on a cheaper contract.

Edited May 22, 2023 by aGENT

[aGENT]

As for the OP, Benning's greatest weakness appeared to be actually putting complementary, cohesive players together (and obviously our poor development record as well). 

 

Even whipping boys like Gudbranson, went on to play solid games for Calgary when properly partnered and put in to a role that fit his skill set.

 

How many times have we seen Benning acquired players fail here, only to go on to another team, in a better fit, and have success? It's a long (if not glamorous) list.

 

He had some skill in gathering ingredients, but seemed clueless in actually baking the cake, or marrying flavours.

[Gurn]

11 hours ago, Baggins said:

He was traded long before that age, just 7 months after being drafted. Still a longshot. It has nothing to do with mis-assessment. Chicago, a contender, had a waiver elligible big d-man with good AHL numbers. Being a contender they had better options and, again, he was waiver elligible. Chicago needed futures at that point and we needed young d-men who weren't 5 years away. It was just a trade where each side got what they were looking for. 

I find it interesting, and a bit strange how some people will talk of what a mistake it was too let Forsling and .... go. "Too soon" they say; yet some  will now say it is fine to have Hironek, rather than wait for the draft picks to develop.

If it was a timing issue, fine; but for a lot it is simply because 'new shiny management' better than old management-even though that is also too soon to really tell.

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Gurn said:

I find it interesting, and a bit strange how some people will talk of what a mistake it was too let Forsling and .... go. "Too soon" they say; yet some  will now say it is fine to have Hironek, rather than wait for the draft picks to develop.

If it was a timing issue, fine; but for a lot it is simply because 'new shiny management' better than old management-even though that is also too soon to really tell.

Different times in our club though. When we drafted Forsling we were rebuilding a new core. Now we have a core that is ready to compete. Adding a 25 year old, elite right shot D to the group (in basically a swap for Horvat) makes excellent sense. Plus, int that whole deal, we added a high end centre prospect. And a young top six winger. This was masterfully done by Allvin. 

[Gurn]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Different times in our club though

 

11 minutes ago, Gurn said:

If it was a timing issue, fine

 

11 minutes ago, Gurn said:

but for a lot it is simply because 'new shiny management' better than old management-even though that is also too soon to really tell.

 

[spook007]

13 minutes ago, aGENT said:

The problem with Rathbone is that there's no roster spot for him, and likely won't be, with Hughes (and now Hronek) on the roster. IMO we should have moved him like a year or two ago when his value was arguably higher.

 

We should try to get value on him before his value withers on the vine IMO. He's unlikely to see much NHL time, other than injury fill in (where I'm not even sure he'd be first call up at this point, unless maybe it's Hughes out), he's waiver eligible, etc etc...

 

Move him (packaged?) for another player that's also waiver eligible, at a position/player type of greater need.

 

But no, we should not move Hoglander. He's our younger, built in Garland replacement, on a cheaper contract.

I agree on Rathbone.

With QH and OEL in the line up there was never going to be room for Rathbone... 

As soon as they traded for OEL, or at worst when QH signed his 6 years extension... Not strong enough defensively. 

 

 

We need a couple of big bodies on the bottom pairing, preferably able to PK..

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Gurn said:

 

 

 

New shiny management is competent and will build out a great team, much like Gillis did. The time is right. Our key core players are elite and just entering their best years. Hronek is 25. Perfect timing to add a high end D of his age. 

[Gurn]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

New shiny management is competent and will build out a great team, much like Gillis did. The time is right. Our key core players are elite and just entering their best years. Hronek is 25. Perfect timing to add a high end D of his age. 

New shiny management has made multiple mistakes, along with their good moves.

Jury still out, pending further evidence.

[Baggins]

19 minutes ago, Gurn said:

I find it interesting, and a bit strange how some people will talk of what a mistake it was too let Forsling and .... go. "Too soon" they say; yet some  will now say it is fine to have Hironek, rather than wait for the draft picks to develop.

If it was a timing issue, fine; but for a lot it is simply because 'new shiny management' better than old management-even though that is also too soon to really tell.

Personally I think both were smart moves for where the team was at. Benning had no young AHL players worth calling up, so he traded for some hoping to get some youth injected into the roster. Now we have elite young talent on the roster that needs to be built around sooner rather than later. Meaning moves for proven talent. Neither eliminates the need for prospects and good drafting. That need always exists. It's simply making trades to fill current needs.

[Ghostsof1915]

For the most part, I think Benning could draft.

His player management however was appalling.

[King Heffy]

5 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

For the most part, I think Benning could draft.

His player management however was appalling.

The main problem was hiring two complete idiots to coach the team.  I wonder what the bubble team could have done under an actual coach instead of Green and the baboons he had for assistants.

[Ghostsof1915]

7 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

The main problem was hiring two complete idiots to coach the team.  I wonder what the bubble team could have done under an actual coach instead of Green and the baboons he had for assistants.

 

[Fred65]

I find it hard to figure out the Juolevi, Chatfield or Forsling moves. JB played D and i would have thought it would help in selecting D prospects, apprently not so

[Kevin Biestra]

2 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

I find it hard to figure out the Juolevi, Chatfield or Forsling moves. JB played D and i would have thought it would help in selecting D prospects, apprently not so

 

Forsling was obviously a good pick.  Benning was just a dummy and traded him for Clendening.  His overall decision making was the problem.  He actually picked a couple winners with Forsling and McCann but it didn't matter because he traded them for lesser players.  Sent McCann packing when he could have got way more for Virtanen who didn't develop into one quarter of the player that McCann did.

 

And Benning's huge problem seemed to be an inability to evaluate ESTABLISHED defensemen.  He paid through the nose for OEL, Gudbranson, Myers.  His ability to evaluate existing NHLers on other teams was really questionable.  He got it right big time with JT Miller but other than that...hit some singles and some really big strikeouts.  Again, did pretty well to get Nick Bonino in the Kesler trade but then ditched him quickly as well.

[eeeeergh]

Bennings two biggest problems:

 

1. no patience 

2. disdain for analytics 

 

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, Fred65 said:

I find it hard to figure out the Juolevi, Chatfield or Forsling moves. JB played D and i would have thought it would help in selecting D prospects, apprently not so

Even Ben Hutton is a spare on team "in the Final Four" this season.  Though he was drafted by Mike Gillis so he doesn't count.

Edited May 23, 2023 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Maddogy]

Benning was learning on the job and so was his boss the owner. Had Benning been guided under the tutelage of an experienced president of hockey operations he would have turned out better. Trevor Linden was so inexperienced that he called other teams for advice. This was a perfect storm of good people with very little experience trying to reinvent the wheel. Most startup companies are like this and most of them go broke.

 

All three of them thought highly of themselves and no one asked for more help. They all misjudged themselves and misrepresented their inflated values to each other. It was a tragedy. I do however think that the owner has learned his mistakes. However can the new management team achieve a successful retool? I think at best it is 50:50 coin toss.

Edited May 23, 2023 by Maddogy

[Law of Goalies]

20 hours ago, TopChed said:

Forsling was a 5th round pick.  Thats pretty normal I think no?

It's not being normal or not but you make it sound like he has been playing steadily in the NHL since age 20 which is not true. That was the point I was getting at.