Can Tyler Myers still become a good defenceman?

[Provost]

14 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

I actually thought those two looked 'ok enough' as a pairing (they were after all, still developing/progressing).  Weaker when they were split.  I don't have an explanation for that as some players just have this chemistry together.  Or in the case of two otherwise *LEGIT* top 4 guys (Bieksa & Edler) not having any chemistry when put together.

Stecher managed to keep all his advanced stats up even when asked to play a lot more (even 30 minutes a night for a stretch), regardless of partner.  Hutton fared ok when with Stecher, but just tanked without him and when asked to do too much.

 

They were both decent 3rd pairing D.  Stecher had the ability to move up in the lineup to cover injuries without hurting you.

 

I don’t think most folks fully appreciate the difference between playing 15 minutes a night against sheltered competition and 25 minutes a night in the toughest matchups.  Lots of players can do the former, even really well, and very few the latter.

 

We have had such a bad defence for so long, we have put too many of the 3rd pairing guys too high in the lineup with expected results.

 

Andrew Alberts, Aaron Rome, etc were solid 3rd pairing and depth guys the last time we had a good defence.  They played their roles really well.  If you asked them to play top minutes, we probably wouldn’t have been a playoff team in 2011.

 

We had Bieksa, Erhoff, Salo, Hamhuis, Ballard, and Edler ahead of them.

 

We had three pairings that could have been top 4 on most teams.  Nothing even remotely similar since.

[IBatch]

6 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

I never saw him play a game that I said wow he looks great or even good.  Usually more "what a bonehead."

I didn't see the first three years that way.  Never added stability, never added offence.  I think you are highlighting that some of our D carried him more in first few years but he never lived up to anything close to his contract and has been a driving force for the un-tank tank.

What?  Really?  Myers had some great games for us.   He's called the Choas Giraffe for a reason.   When he's on, he keeps McDavid and Draisatl off the scoreboard.    I've also watched him use the shaft of his stick to save a half dozens sure goals.    I think you've got a personal bias towards Myers.    Or are not watching all the games and have missed some great games from him.   He's had some really good ones.   And 5 x 5, he hasn't been terrible.  Not great either.   No way should he be killing penalties, but that's a roster issue as well. 

 

And whom exactly - was "carrying him ".    Edler maybe, the previous whipping boy, but also watched his foot speed end up with the puck in our net enough times.    Myers finally broke the AHL or depth defenseman cycle for us but certainly wasn't enough on his own either.   Can't blame Myers for OELs trash play last season, yet the dialogue was OEL saving Myers his first.   And Edler saving Myers before that even though a turtle could skate faster.  

Edited June 19, 2023 by IBatch

[DrJockitch]

Just now, IBatch said:

What?  Really?  Myers had some great games for us.   He's called the Choas Giraffe for a reason.   When he's on, he keeps McDavid and Draisatl off the scoreboard.    I've also watched him use the shaft of his stick to save a half dozens sure goals.    I think you've got a personal bias towards Myers.    Or are not watching all the games and have missed some great games from him.   He's had some really good ones.   And 5 x 5, he hasn't been terrible.  Not great either.   No way should he be killing penalties, but that's a roster issue as well. 

I recognize that all NHL players look good at times, in fact the vast majority of the time or they wouldn't be in the league.  It is the frequencies of their mess-ups that really define how bad they are and his were frequent and reflected in the fancy stats.  

The Chaos is the problem not the strength.  Bonehead with the puck in his own end, wild adventures in the offensive zone, cross checks to the head, those are his calling cards.

Living up to his contract, not even close.  Lead PK player on historically bad PK yep.

Roster issues that were created in part by signing a player that required sheltered minutes to a massive contract who couldn't live up to it when he was the one who we needed to take the hard minutes.

[IBatch]

1 minute ago, DrJockitch said:

I recognize that all NHL players look good at times, in fact the vast majority of the time or they wouldn't be in the league.  It is the frequencies of their mess-ups that really define how bad they are and his were frequent and reflected in the fancy stats.  

The Chaos is the problem not the strength.  Bonehead with the puck in his own end, wild adventures in the offensive zone, cross checks to the head, those are his calling cards.

Living up to his contract, not even close.  Lead PK player on historically bad PK yep.

Roster issues that were created in part by signing a player that required sheltered minutes to a massive contract who couldn't live up to it when he was the one who we needed to take the hard minutes.

Well that's also part of UFA season.  Edler's last contract was equally as gross.    PK ugh.   We just don't have anyone better - 3 coaches now trusting him as part of that.   It's really too bad we didn't keep Tanev.   Schmidt was a huge miss.   And as far as gaffes go, Edler had a ton of them too (or has this been forgotten already).    The CDC was brutal towards him during the worst JB years.   Because we only had, Edler and Tanev.   If they could have managed even one more guy, Myers wouldn't have looked nearly so bad.   The coaches all gave him the minutes, they had no other choice.   Sure hope that this is a bit of a warning sign for UFA season coming up now that we have some space this year.   

 

Graves people want.   Burke loved the signing for us when we got Myers,  how do you feel about Burke?   The second best D that year was gulp, Gardiner.   LHD CAR eventually picked up.   Myers was suspected to go as high as 7 x 7.  Wow.   Typical UFA time.    Took a tax heavy team, at 6 x 5.   Considered again at the time, a solid signing.   A 4-5 RHD D.   WNP was at the time, the envy of the league with the best right side.  Byfuglien, Trouba and Myers.   When Byfuglien or Trouba went down,  Myers was right there to pick up the slack.   Very good at zone entries and zone exits.   Well above the half way mark league wide.   Hits well, scores some goals and gets some points. 

 

Sure a lot harder to do with a team like ours isn't it?   Elder.   Tanev.   And this kid who just started out, but was also a bit of an adventure in his own zone as well.   Sure couldn't move a body around anyways.  

 

Myers gets a lot of hate,  haters going to hate.   But wouldn't put it all on him.   Some of it for sure has to go into the inability to fix the D.   JB knew this and sure did try hard.  Schmidt.   When OEL talks failed.   Then OEL again.  

 

And here we are.   Myers is fine as a 3rd pairing guy today.   And will be for another few years.   When he first came, we finally, after half a decade, got another someone who could play 5 x 5 against the best in the world.    His bonehead plays stand out for sure.   For a non playoff team .. maybe he doesn't deserve the whipping boy thing as much as he's received, and instead we should be whipping JB and Allvin too.    
 

JB, well we got 17 playoff games in the record books, first year Miller and Myers were added (only things he did really).  Covid hit.   Maybe we wouldn't have made the playoffs, but for post Sedin one, things looked up and up finally.  

 

Said it at the time, and for sure its happened.   The Edler whipping boys will move onto Myers. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

26 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Well that's also part of UFA season.  Edler's last contract was equally as gross.    PK ugh.   We just don't have anyone better - 3 coaches now trusting him as part of that.   It's really too bad we didn't keep Tanev.   Schmidt was a huge miss.   And as far as gaffes go, Edler had a ton of them too (or has this been forgotten already).    The CDC was brutal towards him during the worst JB years.   Because we only had, Edler and Tanev.   If they could have managed even one more guy, Myers wouldn't have looked nearly so bad.   The coaches all gave him the minutes, they had no other choice.   Sure hope that this is a bit of a warning sign for UFA season coming up now that we have some space this year.   

 

Graves people want.   Burke loved the signing for us when we got Myers,  how do you feel about Burke?   The second best D that year was gulp, Gardiner.   LHD CAR eventually picked up.   Myers was suspected to go as high as 7 x 7.  Wow.   Typical UFA time.    Took a tax heavy team, at 6 x 5.   Considered again at the time, a solid signing.   A 4-5 RHD D.   WNP was at the time, the envy of the league with the best right side.  Byfuglien, Trouba and Myers.   When Byfuglien or Trouba went down,  Myers was right there to pick up the slack.   Very good at zone entries and zone exits.   Well above the half way mark league wide.   Hits well, scores some goals and gets some points. 

 

Sure a lot harder to do with a team like ours isn't it?   Elder.   Tanev.   And this kid who just started out, but was also a bit of an adventure in his own zone as well.   Sure couldn't move a body around anyways.  

 

Myers gets a lot of hate,  haters going to hate.   But wouldn't put it all on him.   Some of it for sure has to go into the inability to fix the D.   JB knew this and sure did try hard.  Schmidt.   When OEL talks failed.   Then OEL again.  

 

And here we are.   Myers is fine as a 3rd pairing guy today.   And will be for another few years.   When he first came, we finally, after half a decade, got another someone who could play 5 x 5 against the best in the world.    His bonehead plays stand out for sure.   For a non playoff team .. maybe he doesn't deserve the whipping boy thing as much as he's received, and instead we should be whipping JB and Allvin too.    
 

JB, well we got 17 playoff games in the record books, first year Miller and Myers were added (only things he did really).  Covid hit.   Maybe we wouldn't have made the playoffs, but for post Sedin one, things looked up and up finally.  

 

Said it at the time, and for sure its happened.   The Edler whipping boys will move onto Myers. 

I'll admit I thought Schmidt was a major coup by Benning.  I won't use hindsight to knock Benning for that trade.

[erkayloomeh]

13 hours ago, brokensticks said:

 

I did notice that he played his position a lot better at the end of last year under Tocchet on a team with a lot more structure. 

That's the problem.  How many players do we have that you would say underperformed?  

I find it hard to assess players when the team structure itself seems out of sorts. 

You end up getting rid of players that go elsewhere and perform.

The team structure needs fixed.....then you look at trading to have more balance in your roster. 

 

It's the chicken, egg thing.

 

[Angry Goose]

10 hours ago, EastCoastNucks said:

It wasnt the D-zone so much as the lack of goaltending. the Defense was scrambling all the time because they wanted to help Martin and Delia be successful.

Myers played much better not because of Toccet/Foote but because Demko and Slovos were there. Myers started to play focused on getting pucks instead of blocking pucks.

If you watched Myers in the IIHF he played like he used to play.

the number of times I saw 2 dmen on the same opponent, on one side of the net leading to back door goals tho…

10 hours ago, spook007 said:

Give him a defensive D man, and maybe he'll do better. He likes to roam and struggles to control his inner QH, but I still haven't forgotten bubble Giraffe, where he was on of the few Dmen able to take up the battle...

inner QH lmao

[DownUndaCanuck]

I think there's a potential for a rebound - he just needs to be managed sadly and I doubt we can find us a replacement RD anyway. If we put him with a guy like Hirose, ouch, look out. If we pair him with an absolute beast like say Gavrikov, I think he'd be a machine.

[Canucks Curse]

yes, on a good team with structure like Vegas (who would not want him) but not with us, trade him

Chicago or ANA should trade for him for future considerations, then flip him at the deadline with retention for a 3rd # ASSetManagement 

[spook007]

15 minutes ago, Angry Goose said:

the number of times I saw 2 dmen on the same opponent, on one side of the net leading to back door goals tho…

inner QH lmao

To see Myers roam behind the oppositions net, while they are breaking at speed used to my f'ing head in... 

Think Tocchet had a hold in him, because it became less after he took over, thankfully...

[NewbieCanuckFan]

23 minutes ago, spook007 said:

To see Myers roam behind the oppositions net, while they are breaking at speed used to my f'ing head in... 

Think Tocchet had a hold in him, because it became less after he took over, thankfully...

I've said this multiple times but imagine how more of a well rounded player Boeser would be had Tocchet had coached him from the very start.

[spook007]

2 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

I've said this multiple times but imagine how more of a well rounded player Boeser would be had Tocchet had coached him from the very start.

Yes that is very likely...

The boy has been unlucky with severe injuries and then personal stuff with the passing of his dad, so it has not been easy...

But yes if anything, he could definitely have benefited from some proper coaching... I don't think its too late for him to turn it around, but time will tell...

[Guest]

16 hours ago, brokensticks said:

Myers has received a lot of bad press in the last couple of years - and rightfully so. He has earned his nickname, Chaos Giraffe, by being frequently caught out of position, making bad pinches, bad reads, bad gap control and, generally, being in the wrong place at the wrong time far too often. Combined with his $6 Million salary and low scoring points, he has become the whipping boy for a lot of fans and journalists.

On the positive side, he is a big, smooth skating, right-handed defenceman - a commodity that most teams are looking for. He was the 12th overall pick in his draft year and he has had some good seasons in the past with other teams, mostly in his early years in the NHL with Buffalo but 36 in 2018 with Winnipeg. He is also pretty durable playing 78 games this year and 82 last season. He is 33 years old.

I did notice that he played his position a lot better at the end of last year under Tocchet on a team with a lot more structure. We have two great assistant coaches, Gonchar and Foote, that can possibly teach him how to be a solid, stay-at-home, stay in position, defenceman. This is the last year of his contract and it looks like nobody really wants him until the $5 Million is paid to him in September. He has expressed an interest in staying and his next contract will be much more reasonable.

Is he worth keeping around or do we free the Giraffe?

If he comes back on a 2 year, 3 mil/year deal, I'd be happy to have him on a 3rd pairing. His good plays go largely unnoticed because he uses his reach to disrupt plays. His bad games can really go off the rails, but in a 3rd pairing role we can just cut his minutes down. 

 

 

[24K PureCool]

He will be fine as a 3rd pairing guy and move to top 4 in a pinch. 

[alt kilgore]

Thing with Myers is he is a 'it was the best of times, it was the worst of times' kind of player.

 

People who defend Myers rightly point out that he is has some good qualities as a defenceman.  Some that you can't get with a smaller D.  He has been able to break up plays by his long reach with his stick, that a smaller D cannot.  He can pinch off players on the boards when he chooses to use his size to his advantage. And if his hits ever connect, they are quite effective.

 

But his cons defeat his pros. He just does not have the hockey IQ to compete against other teams top lines, or other skill lines who DO have hockey sense. Something you cannot teach a player. It shows in his hesitation when he does recover a puck. Either gets it taken away again, or passes to a player who is already covered, or worse directly onto the stick of the opponent. Which happens 2 or 3 times some games.  That is what is killing his game. Its what the Jets realized and got rid of him, despite his size.

 

Then there's also the Big Man syndrome with the refs.  We all want him to play more physical. But every fricken time he starts having a good physical game where he is hitting more....you just know he will eventually get a "Big Man" penalty for having too high up of a shoulder.  Then he will be even more shy to bump anyone for weeks after.

 

I propose they totally change his responsibilities to a more offensive role. I don't mean more time on the point on the PP shooting at shin  pads. I mean giving him the green light to go to the net more. He is pressured, as one of our few, or only, big D to always play a defensive role. But he is not good at that. I remember there were a few games, for whatever reason, Myers was playing more offensive minded with the puck, moving forward, taking close shots. With his body, he can also use it to  clear space in front of the OTHER net as well. Have a partner who knows his role is playing the more defensive partner.  Just kicking around ideas to make him more useful

[Nucker 67]

I think Myers still has some game. Not sure if he's ever had coaches like Tocchet, Gonchar and Foote before. I think a good off season and Gonchar/Foote making adjustments, he could still be a good bottom pairing D for a few years. I think he'd also take a nice "hometown" discount to stay in VAN if he re-signed. 

 

Wolanin/Brisebois - Myers 

 

Would this work next season as a 3rd pairing?

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

I think Myers still has some game. Not sure if he's ever had coaches like Tocchet, Gonchar and Foote before. I think a good off season and Gonchar/Foote making adjustments, he could still be a good bottom pairing D for a few years. I think he'd also take a nice "hometown" discount to stay in VAN if he re-signed. 

 

Wolanin/Brisebois - Myers 

 

Would this work next season as a 3rd pairing?

Brisebois - Myers could definitely work as a 3rd pairing. Brisebois is also good on the PK. 

 

We really need to get a good 2nd pairing LD to pair up with Hronek and someone that can also PK well. 

 

As much as I hate the OEL buyout, it does open up a lot better fits all over our lineup. 

[Bure2Win]

Can Tyler Myers still become a good defenceman?

 

 

 

Edited June 20, 2023 by Bure2Win

[ilduce39]

For sure he could look better.  
 

He had a good first year, poor 2nd, good 3rd and terrible 4th season with us so far. Even the Twitter stats weirdos would say so.  He’s capable - and has played well for us.
 

The one thing that stands out on this graph and matches the eye test is the high level of competition.  
 

Myers tends to look a lot better against average or weaker competition. He’s being used in a pseudo shutdown role - which worked 2 seasons ago with a healthy OEL and 4 seasons ago were he played a good chunk with Edler.  He’s failed miserably without a guy who can play in his own end though.  I get it - your 6 mil d man shouldn’t need to be carried - but he can’t be bought out and he’s going to be hard to trade.
 

We need to find Hughes or Hronek a proper partner and let Myers romp around on the 3rd pair this season. Ideally with a salary castoff from Boston.  He’d likely look good enough in that role and at the very least it could juice his stats for a deadline deal. 

[ilduce39]

10 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

I'll admit I thought Schmidt was a major coup by Benning.  I won't use hindsight to knock Benning for that trade.

Signing D men from very good teams can be a pitfall.  At least when they’re going from structure to a tire fire.
 

One I think we need to be a little careful of going after Graves who’s played for Colorado and a good New Jersey team.
 

Although I like our chances of tightening up with Tocchet, Foote and Gonchar.