Jared McCann Appearance on Podcast

[canuck73_3]

52 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

He was a teenager, kids mature at different rates.

 

If a little bit of an attitude problem (if that was even the case) was enough for them to give up on him instead of trying to work through it with him, that's an indictment on the organization.

I don’t entirely disagree, but we can’t make a definitive conclusion about it as we don’t know both sides of the story. 

[canuck73_3]

1 hour ago, kanucks25 said:

The Benning slurp-fest was in full swing at this point. People supported all of his decisions vehemently no matter how obviously moronic they were.

 

Blanket statements are a fools game. 

[kanucks25]

17 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

I don’t entirely disagree, but we can’t make a definitive conclusion about it as we don’t know both sides of the story. 

Well on one side you have a management team that proved themselves to be grossly incompetent.

 

And on the other side you have a 27 year-old 40 goal scorer.

 

That's enough evidence, IMO.

 

[R3aL]

14 hours ago, KoreanHockeyFan said:

Was debating on whether to put this in Canucks Talk but there are also a lot of non-Canucks related tidbits from this podcast episode with Luke Gazdic and Jared McCann that I found so fascinating. 

 

 

@15:14 talks about his infamous "it is what it is" quote after getting drafted by the Canucks

@16:14 talks about his beginnings in Vancouver - timidness around the dressing room as a young player

@18:09 talks about challenges with confidence as a player after getting traded from the Canucks, including how he could have used a year in the AHL and the Canucks giving up on him early

@19:36 funny story about how Andrey Pedan (haven't heard his name in a while!) called McCann out for being a "lonely star" 

 

Throughout the podcast I really got the sense how McCann was super timid when he was on the Canucks and definitely entered the NHL too early. Great stories around how veterans throughout his career have really helped him to become the player he is now. 

ufff we lost out on a good kid. Brutal.

 

Great interview

[Gurn]

11 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

Well on one side you have a management team that proved themselves to be grossly incompetent.

 

And on the other side you have a 27 year-old 40 goal scorer.

 

That's enough evidence, IMO.

 

took that guy 10 years to get 40 and he is on his 5th team.

3 teams moved him on, down the road, are they all incompetent; or is it just a Canuck thing?

 

[canuck73_3]

16 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

Well on one side you have a management team that proved themselves to be grossly incompetent.

 

And on the other side you have a 27 year-old 40 goal scorer.

 

That's enough evidence, IMO.

 

Not really actually, the fact he matured may have been helped by the 2 wake up calls that followed, remember Florida gave up on him quickly too...

[kanucks25]

9 minutes ago, Gurn said:

took that guy 10 years to get 40 and he is on his 5th team.

3 teams moved him on, down the road, are they all incompetent; or is it just a Canuck thing?

 

 

6 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Not really actually, the fact he matured may have been helped by the 2 wake up calls that followed, remember Florida gave up on him quickly too...

His original team likely botched his development curve.

 

I will however give said original team some credit for the draft pick, though. It was a good pick, they just had zero idea how to manage & develop.

[canuck73_3]

13 minutes ago, Gurn said:

took that guy 10 years to get 40 and he is on his 5th team.

3 teams moved him on, down the road, are they all incompetent; or is it just a Canuck thing?

 

its Kanuck25, 31 other teams could have done exactly the same and only the Canucks are the dumb ones. 

[canuck73_3]

1 minute ago, kanucks25 said:

 

His original team likely botched his development curve.

 

I will however give said original team some credit for the draft pick, though. It was a good pick, they just had zero idea how to manage & develop.

He was traded so early that is such a weak cop out. 

[Bounce000]

13 hours ago, -AJ- said:

I liked Willie D for a while, but I gotta say, he really screwed up by not sending these kids back down.

Agreed. Although if you remember, the organization and fan base was super starved for young talent on the roster.

[viking mama]

17 hours ago, Coconuts said:

All they had to do was be patient with him and Virtanen, rushing them both was awful for this franchise. 

 

Yet, in many ways Benning was arguably “too patient” with Jake.
 

Jake wasn’t properly-vetted for his work ethic &/or inclinations to make the necessary sacrifices in order to achieve a quicker more alert hockey mind or be habitually fit for his role as a responsible pro. Tuna’s propensity to make poor choices, didn’t occur from just a lack of maturity or intelligence.

 

Character is something evidenced by actions, words & deeds. With so many NHL jobs available & many more players vying for them,…these intangibles shouldn’t be glossed-over in reviewing the modern-day profiles of high-draft picks or  undrafted signees.
 

Each player is required to sacrifice, blend-in & be stretched to lead-out in the ways that matter most, in order to build a superior hockey culture for a successful contemporary NHL-team.  
 

^I have always believed in raising the bar on that.  
 

 

Edited July 8, 2023 by viking mama

[viking mama]

15 hours ago, CaptKirk888 said:

After his rookie season, he spent a full season in Utica……

Yah, they tried that…for awhile.
 

Benning experienced, as an Asst. GM, moving along a distracted problem/child (Tyler Seguin) from the Bruins, after TS won the Stanley Cup in his rookie season.  

When learning more of Jake’s personality & habits, Benning should have done Virtanen (& the team) the favour of moving him along sooner, too. JB simply banked on Jake’s trade value improving, yet an expansion draft followed by the Covid-years impacted his ability to find a suitable swap & he squandered those earlier opportunities before that eventual public relations blow-up. This was always the risk with JV & Benning knew it.

 

Benning’s legacy would forever be defined by whatever happened to JV …so he continued to gamble, held on & this, in part, cost him his job. 
 

Edited July 8, 2023 by viking mama

[-AJ-]

3 hours ago, Bounce000 said:

Agreed. Although if you remember, the organization and fan base was super starved for young talent on the roster.

There was definitely an air of desperation around it at the time.

[IBatch]

20 hours ago, Alflives said:

IMHAO our owner has learned his lesson to keep his snout out of hockey ops and allow the experts to do their jobs. The buyout of OEL was confirmation for me. The kids are going to stay in lower leagues and develop into men (physically and mentally). There will always be experienced veterans on the big club the kids will need to push out. We have competent management. No more McCann failures. 

JR is actually the hire that meant a lot for me as far having someone who's been around forever, has seen and done it all, and won't be a yes man.    For the first time since Gillis came to town, it feels like a proper organization from top to bottom is been created.   Gillis had his faults too, but sure did a great job of doing everything possible to help the players succeed. 

[IBatch]

12 hours ago, -AJ- said:

There was definitely an air of desperation around it at the time.

Yes.  9 years of flubbing the draft kind of did that - so did all the winning.   It was coming to an end.   And there wasn't anything in the pipe aside from Horvat.    That's a huge age gap (Edler/Hansen-Horvat). 

[DownUndaCanuck]

You could argue a lot of other teams gave up on McCann too, Florida tossed him quite early on, then he had pretty good success with Pittsburgh but at the expansion draft they had too many valuables to protect and probably thought any old winger could play with Crosby and Malkin and drop points (and they're not wrong). He took maybe 6-7 years before he started being a proper top-6 scorer and now he's scoring 40 goals.

 

You really shouldn't give up on a first round pick let alone so quickly. I hope management don't make the same mistake with guys like Podkolzin and Hoglander and Lekkerimaki (their personal project so I doubt they will).

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

You could argue a lot of other teams gave up on McCann too, Florida tossed him quite early on, then he had pretty good success with Pittsburgh but at the expansion draft they had too many valuables to protect and probably thought any old winger could play with Crosby and Malkin and drop points (and they're not wrong). He took maybe 6-7 years before he started being a proper top-6 scorer and now he's scoring 40 goals.

 

You really shouldn't give up on a first round pick let alone so quickly. I hope management don't make the same mistake with guys like Podkolzin and Hoglander and Lekkerimaki (their personal project so I doubt they will).

It's not different when the Pens dealt Sutter for Bonino.  Not that they thought Sutter was garbage/ready for the glue factory.  But he became too expensive for their cap structure (eg., pay their primo players the big money & try to make do with what's left to fill-out the rest of the roster).  That's what alot of people seem to disregard.  The Pens let McCann go not because they thought he was a failure.  It was the opposite.  He played well enough to make himself too expensive to keep.  Happened with Bonino as well (remember how well he worked with Kessel in the post-season?).  Bonino priced himself out of their roster from his (good) play.  He's not a core player but still was a solid player.  So he had to go just like McCann had to go.  And of course, why Sutter had to go in their lineup.

 

Reason why Horvat had to go (especially with the year he was having).  Too expensive to re-sign so you deal him.  Imho, he's not a 'core player'.  Hughes, EP & JT are core players.  You open the vault for those guys.  Then try to "fill-out" the roster with what's left.  If you give Horvat a mega-contract, there won't be enough cap left to do that (as you're bound to make at least one mistake eating cap space as everyone makes mistakes).

Edited July 8, 2023 by NewbieCanuckFan

[DownUndaCanuck]

20 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

It's not different when the Pens dealt Sutter for Bonino.  Not that they thought Sutter was garbage/ready for the glue factory.  But he became too expensive for their cap structure (eg., pay their primo players the big money & try to make do with what's left to fill-out the rest of the roster).  That's what alot of people seem to disregard.  The Pens let McCann go not because they thought he was a failure.  It was the opposite.  He played well enough to make himself too expensive to keep.  Happened with Bonino as well (remember how well he worked with Kessel in the post-season?).  Bonino priced himself out of their roster from his (good) play.  He's not a core player but still was a solid player.  So he had to go just like McCann had to go.  And of course, why Sutter had to go in their lineup.

 

Reason why Horvat had to go (especially with the year he was having).  Too expensive to re-sign so you deal him.  Imho, he's not a 'core player'.  Hughes, EP & JT are core players.  You open the vault for those guys.  Then try to "fill-out" the roster with what's left.  If you give Horvat a mega-contract, there won't be enough cap left to do that (as you're bound to make at least one mistake eating cap space as everyone makes mistakes).

Yeah this is the tricky game to play as a GM - pick your stars and build around them, but you can't have too many stars or you end up so top heavy like the Leafs with no depth. The Pens knew they can just slot any cheap winger in alongside their solid core and they'll produce. Win-win, better for the player to flourish elsewhere, for the other team and for the Pens who don't get strapped to the cap. Problem with McCann is they didn't get anything in return sadly but usually this is where you rinse another team (like we did the Islanders on the Bo deal).

There must have been a big decision about Miller vs Horvat, and lots of things play into that - who's the better 2C under Petey, who's the better leader, who's got the better longevity and also who would bring in the most value in a trade. I personally would have preferred keeping Bo over Miller mainly because of his age and I worry Miller won't age into his contract well, but I doubt Miller is as tradeable as Bo was so maybe we never had much of a choice, and hopefully Miller won't end up being an 8M 3C anchor in a couple of years (lots of players seem to be playing into their mid 30s comfortably now too).

[canucklehead44]

On 7/8/2023 at 8:48 AM, DownUndaCanuck said:

You could argue a lot of other teams gave up on McCann too, Florida tossed him quite early on, then he had pretty good success with Pittsburgh but at the expansion draft they had too many valuables to protect and probably thought any old winger could play with Crosby and Malkin and drop points (and they're not wrong). He took maybe 6-7 years before he started being a proper top-6 scorer and now he's scoring 40 goals.

 

You really shouldn't give up on a first round pick let alone so quickly. I hope management don't make the same mistake with guys like Podkolzin and Hoglander and Lekkerimaki (their personal project so I doubt they will).

I think it is absurd Hoglander didn't play any games in the AHL his first two years. The new management team is using the AHL for development now. Under Benning it was like a prison - once you get sent down that is it. Guys should get sent down to improve their play and earn their spot back up. Jake got sent down, and was 12th in team scoring and still got a one way ticket back up to the NHL. And it isn't like Jake was good defensively - the guy was a disaster when you look at the analytics. 

 

I'd like to see a rotating 4th line - young guys struggle they get sent down and the guys playing well in the AHL get rewarded. That is very much how it used to be. 

[Pure961089]

I think JR and Allvin saved a lot of our prospects careers.  Most would have been rushed like Pods and Hogs and would have had their potential stunted, and be given up on too early.  I'm glad Allvin assembled a compitent development staff to work with and develop our prospects the right way.