Jared McCann Appearance on Podcast

[NewbieCanuckFan]

3 minutes ago, jatylo said:

The unfortunate thing about Virtanen and McCann is that it was either NHL or CHL during their rookie year. A year or two finding their feet playing top 6 minutes in the AHL would have done wonders for them.

I'm not sure Toe Blake could've done anything to help Virtanen.  

[Diamonds]

4 minutes ago, jatylo said:

The unfortunate thing about Virtanen and McCann is that it was either NHL or CHL during their rookie year. A year or two finding their feet playing top 6 minutes in the AHL would have done wonders for them.

I remember there being a weird narrative that Jake was too good for the CHL even though he hadn't yet been above 1PPG. I also don't think he looked that good in preseason during his rookie year. While I do wonder if things would have gone better had he spent another year in the CHL plus one in the AHL, ultimately it was his attitude and lack of maturity that was his biggest downfall.

 

McCann on the other hand did have a very good preseason and I think played his way onto the roster, but clearly he wasn't quite ready for a full season and also should have been given another year in the CHL to develop. 

 

I do wonder if Jake was kept up partially because management didn't like the optics of McCann making the team before Jake.

[canucklehead44]

McCann was compared a lot to Ryan Kesler. I was actually very impressed with McCann's skill set (I liked him a lot more than Virtanen) but it was obvious he wasn't physically mature. What is also crazy is McCann and Kesler both hit their 40 goal seasons at almost identical times. 

When Kesler first came up to the NHL it was the same thing - he was so skinny and while he could skate he lacked physical size to be effective. The following year was the lockout and Kesler focused on adding size and he went from 3 goals in 33 games in the AHL to 30 in 78. The next season he was physically ready to compete in the NHL - that is the point of a farm team. Let guys get a taste of the NHL, see where their weaknesses are, improve them on the farm, and make them hungry to climb back. Throwing Jake and McCann in was so stupid. 

I don't think another year in junior would have killed them. McCann needed to add size and Virtanen wasn't even that good - as an overager he had only 26 goals in 64 games. If he wasn't drafted the year before with numbers like that he probably would have been a 6th round pick. 

Also when Virtanen played in the AHL he had just 19 points in 65 games with a -11. He was nowhere near ready. In fact when I watched the games he didn't even really stand out. Nylander on the other hand was like holyyy how did we pass up on this guy. But look at his development - he played in the SHL, then the AHL his D1, and then his D2 he dominated the AHL (45 points in 38 games +7) before getting called up. He was also a skinny guy who added a tonne of muscle - I've seen a lot of NHL players walking around (I used to live in Yaletown) and only Mattias Ohlund and Willie Nylander really surprised me with their physical size. 

The entire Benning regime had no concept of player development. 

I watched Nicklas Jensen and he was miles ahead of Virtanen but after a slow start offensively was tossed away. Brendan Gaunce was given tough minutes in the NHL and did quite well, and even after a callup where he had 3 points in 3 games with 6 hits, +3, 60% faceoffs he never saw another game with us. Jordan Schroeder put up some very solid two way numbers in the bottom 6 and was tossed away. Yet McCann and Virtanen were thrown into the NHL when not ready (and Virtanen's underlying numbers were horrific his entire time), and they made the same mistake with Hoglander and Podkolzin. Under the Benning regime it was like "lets throw guys into the NHL - if they don't succeed right away lets move on to the next one". 

This new management group seems to know what they are doing. Here are a few things that I love to see:

1. Major focus on player development. Samuelsson, Komisarek, the Sedins, Higgins all putting major work in Abbotsford and with our prospects
2. Signing college & European free agents. These are mature prospects who don't cost any assets. They can fill out the pipeline and some many be ready to jump in, others could take time, but you aren't ruining a guy bringing him in to soon. 
3. CHL signings - there has also been a focus on bringing guys over from the CHL to develop in Abbotsford, whether they are on an AHL or two-way contract. 

 

The only skaters we developed to become NHL players were Zack MacEwen and Jonah Gadjovich (and gave up on them anyway). 

After 8 years of being in a "rebuild", having one of the worst records over that stretch, and multiple top 10 picks, the only drafted/prospect signed skaters we have locked in are Boeser, EP, and Hughes with Hoglander and Podkolzin being two NHL ready prospects. I think what Allvin and Rutherford have done in a little over a year is already miles ahead of the entire Benning era. 

 

[Eddie]

Not gonna lie - development during the Benning years was absolutely terrible, and its gonna cost us for years to come, likely resulting in this 'core' never getting the chance to serious challenge for a cup, hope I'm wrong of course. 

 

Other things here that are important to remember are that fans were absolutely crying out for a McCann and Jake to make the team after an impressive camp, the team needed something to cheer about after a few bad years, and u gotta feel there was some pressure from ownership to help sell tickets. 

The other thing here, is that McCann certainly seems to have found a footing in Seattle - and good for him, he always had a ton of skill and potential. How many teams had he gone through before that tho ? I think there was a lot of credence to the rumors about his attitude than he's managed to cover up here, otherwise one of those other teams would not have given up on him so easily the same way as we did. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

43 minutes ago, canucklehead44 said:

McCann was compared a lot to Ryan Kesler. I was actually very impressed with McCann's skill set (I liked him a lot more than Virtanen) but it was obvious he wasn't physically mature. What is also crazy is McCann and Kesler both hit their 40 goal seasons at almost identical times. 

When Kesler first came up to the NHL it was the same thing - he was so skinny and while he could skate he lacked physical size to be effective. The following year was the lockout and Kesler focused on adding size and he went from 3 goals in 33 games in the AHL to 30 in 78. The next season he was physically ready to compete in the NHL - that is the point of a farm team. Let guys get a taste of the NHL, see where their weaknesses are, improve them on the farm, and make them hungry to climb back. Throwing Jake and McCann in was so stupid. 

I don't think another year in junior would have killed them. McCann needed to add size and Virtanen wasn't even that good - as an overager he had only 26 goals in 64 games. If he wasn't drafted the year before with numbers like that he probably would have been a 6th round pick. 

Also when Virtanen played in the AHL he had just 19 points in 65 games with a -11. He was nowhere near ready. In fact when I watched the games he didn't even really stand out. Nylander on the other hand was like holyyy how did we pass up on this guy. But look at his development - he played in the SHL, then the AHL his D1, and then his D2 he dominated the AHL (45 points in 38 games +7) before getting called up. He was also a skinny guy who added a tonne of muscle - I've seen a lot of NHL players walking around (I used to live in Yaletown) and only Mattias Ohlund and Willie Nylander really surprised me with their physical size. 

The entire Benning regime had no concept of player development. 

I watched Nicklas Jensen and he was miles ahead of Virtanen but after a slow start offensively was tossed away. Brendan Gaunce was given tough minutes in the NHL and did quite well, and even after a callup where he had 3 points in 3 games with 6 hits, +3, 60% faceoffs he never saw another game with us. Jordan Schroeder put up some very solid two way numbers in the bottom 6 and was tossed away. Yet McCann and Virtanen were thrown into the NHL when not ready (and Virtanen's underlying numbers were horrific his entire time), and they made the same mistake with Hoglander and Podkolzin. Under the Benning regime it was like "lets throw guys into the NHL - if they don't succeed right away lets move on to the next one". 

This new management group seems to know what they are doing. Here are a few things that I love to see:

1. Major focus on player development. Samuelsson, Komisarek, the Sedins, Higgins all putting major work in Abbotsford and with our prospects
2. Signing college & European free agents. These are mature prospects who don't cost any assets. They can fill out the pipeline and some many be ready to jump in, others could take time, but you aren't ruining a guy bringing him in to soon. 
3. CHL signings - there has also been a focus on bringing guys over from the CHL to develop in Abbotsford, whether they are on an AHL or two-way contract. 

 

The only skaters we developed to become NHL players were Zack MacEwen and Jonah Gadjovich (and gave up on them anyway). 

After 8 years of being in a "rebuild", having one of the worst records over that stretch, and multiple top 10 picks, the only drafted/prospect signed skaters we have locked in are Boeser, EP, and Hughes with Hoglander and Podkolzin being two NHL ready prospects. I think what Allvin and Rutherford have done in a little over a year is already miles ahead of the entire Benning era. 

 

Kesler was basically close to "NHL ready" when he was drafted.  McCann, while offensively skilled, still needed to develop.

[canucklehead44]

7 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Not gonna lie - development during the Benning years was absolutely terrible, and its gonna cost us for years to come, likely resulting in this 'core' never getting the chance to serious challenge for a cup, hope I'm wrong of course. 

 

Other things here that are important to remember are that fans were absolutely crying out for a McCann and Jake to make the team after an impressive camp, the team needed something to cheer about after a few bad years, and u gotta feel there was some pressure from ownership to help sell tickets. 

The other thing here, is that McCann certainly seems to have found a footing in Seattle - and good for him, he always had a ton of skill and potential. How many teams had he gone through before that tho ? I think there was a lot of credence to the rumors about his attitude than he's managed to cover up here, otherwise one of those other teams would not have given up on him so easily the same way as we did. 

Penguins paid a 1st, Gustavsson, Cole for Derrik Brassard only half a season prior, plus Sheahan was a former first round pick who had also come off of a pretty solid 32 point campaign. So the Panthers got Brassard (who recently was traded for a lot) Sheahan, a 2nd, and two fourths for McCann and Bjugstad - it isn't like McCann was tossed he was still only 22 and had some injuries that year. 

McCann actually blossomed in Pittsburgh and scored at a 27 goal 61 point over 82 game pace as a 24/25 year old but fell victim to the lottery. 

So maybe the Panthers gave up on him but at the time they got a great return, and the Penguins were pretty unlucky with the lottery. I think once a player hits about 25 is when you can determine what you have in that player although there are late bloomers (Dakota Joshua for example). 

[canuck73_3]

7 hours ago, iinatcc said:

I think this interview is something I highlightend before McCann was a kid when he joined the Canucks and people here (either to make themselves feel better about the trade or for whatever reason) threw him under the bus. 

 

I always thought it was in poor taste for us to do this. 

I think some patience could have been used in this case however he could also have matured since I don't think it's as one sided and issue as you're making it out to be. He has done a great job maturing since though.

[canuck73_3]

55 minutes ago, Diamonds said:

I remember there being a weird narrative that Jake was too good for the CHL even though he hadn't yet been above 1PPG. I also don't think he looked that good in preseason during his rookie year. While I do wonder if things would have gone better had he spent another year in the CHL plus one in the AHL, ultimately it was his attitude and lack of maturity that was his biggest downfall.

 

McCann on the other hand did have a very good preseason and I think played his way onto the roster, but clearly he wasn't quite ready for a full season and also should have been given another year in the CHL to develop. 

 

I do wonder if Jake was kept up partially because management didn't like the optics of McCann making the team before Jake.

It wasn't that he was too good for the CHL, The Canucks didn't like how he was handled in Calgary and Calgary wouldn't trade him either so they opted to keep him up rather than send him down.

[KoreanHockeyFan]

1 hour ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Our US amateur scouts have generally been good.  Same as our European amateur scouts.

 

Canadian amateur scouts?  Nepotism at its finest.

That's an interesting take...I did a quick scan of the Canucks draft picks. I don't think we've had a CHL prospect pan out since Horvat (Brisebois still TBD?)...

 

Our European and US College draft picks have been astounding though, so it really makes you wonder...

[KoreanHockeyFan]

58 minutes ago, canucklehead44 said:

McCann was compared a lot to Ryan Kesler. I was actually very impressed with McCann's skill set (I liked him a lot more than Virtanen) but it was obvious he wasn't physically mature. What is also crazy is McCann and Kesler both hit their 40 goal seasons at almost identical times. 

When Kesler first came up to the NHL it was the same thing - he was so skinny and while he could skate he lacked physical size to be effective. The following year was the lockout and Kesler focused on adding size and he went from 3 goals in 33 games in the AHL to 30 in 78. The next season he was physically ready to compete in the NHL - that is the point of a farm team. Let guys get a taste of the NHL, see where their weaknesses are, improve them on the farm, and make them hungry to climb back. Throwing Jake and McCann in was so stupid. 

I don't think another year in junior would have killed them. McCann needed to add size and Virtanen wasn't even that good - as an overager he had only 26 goals in 64 games. If he wasn't drafted the year before with numbers like that he probably would have been a 6th round pick. 

Also when Virtanen played in the AHL he had just 19 points in 65 games with a -11. He was nowhere near ready. In fact when I watched the games he didn't even really stand out. Nylander on the other hand was like holyyy how did we pass up on this guy. But look at his development - he played in the SHL, then the AHL his D1, and then his D2 he dominated the AHL (45 points in 38 games +7) before getting called up. He was also a skinny guy who added a tonne of muscle - I've seen a lot of NHL players walking around (I used to live in Yaletown) and only Mattias Ohlund and Willie Nylander really surprised me with their physical size. 

The entire Benning regime had no concept of player development. 

I watched Nicklas Jensen and he was miles ahead of Virtanen but after a slow start offensively was tossed away. Brendan Gaunce was given tough minutes in the NHL and did quite well, and even after a callup where he had 3 points in 3 games with 6 hits, +3, 60% faceoffs he never saw another game with us. Jordan Schroeder put up some very solid two way numbers in the bottom 6 and was tossed away. Yet McCann and Virtanen were thrown into the NHL when not ready (and Virtanen's underlying numbers were horrific his entire time), and they made the same mistake with Hoglander and Podkolzin. Under the Benning regime it was like "lets throw guys into the NHL - if they don't succeed right away lets move on to the next one". 

This new management group seems to know what they are doing. Here are a few things that I love to see:

1. Major focus on player development. Samuelsson, Komisarek, the Sedins, Higgins all putting major work in Abbotsford and with our prospects
2. Signing college & European free agents. These are mature prospects who don't cost any assets. They can fill out the pipeline and some many be ready to jump in, others could take time, but you aren't ruining a guy bringing him in to soon. 
3. CHL signings - there has also been a focus on bringing guys over from the CHL to develop in Abbotsford, whether they are on an AHL or two-way contract. 

 

The only skaters we developed to become NHL players were Zack MacEwen and Jonah Gadjovich (and gave up on them anyway). 

After 8 years of being in a "rebuild", having one of the worst records over that stretch, and multiple top 10 picks, the only drafted/prospect signed skaters we have locked in are Boeser, EP, and Hughes with Hoglander and Podkolzin being two NHL ready prospects. I think what Allvin and Rutherford have done in a little over a year is already miles ahead of the entire Benning era. 

 

Yup. In the podcast I shared, McCann himself admits he was getting crushed by NHL'ers in this first season weighing in only at 170 pounds. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 minute ago, KoreanHockeyFan said:

That's an interesting take...I did a quick scan of the Canucks draft picks. I don't think we've had a CHL prospect pan out since Horvat (Brisebois still TBD?)...

 

Our European and US College draft picks have been astounding though, so it really makes you wonder...

I think Grabner might be the only notable one from BC/Western Canada since like forever (ok, I'll give Delorme actual legit credit for that one).  I could be wrong but wasn't Bieksa playing in the US collegiate system before he was drafted by us?

[canuck73_3]

3 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

I think Grabner might be the only notable one from BC/Western Canada since like forever (ok, I'll give Delorme actual legit credit for that one).  I could be wrong but wasn't Bieksa playing in the US collegiate system before he was drafted by us?

Correct, Bieksa was at Bowling Green

Edited July 7, 2023 by canuck73_3

[jatylo]

1 hour ago, Diamonds said:

I remember there being a weird narrative that Jake was too good for the CHL even though he hadn't yet been above 1PPG. I also don't think he looked that good in preseason during his rookie year. While I do wonder if things would have gone better had he spent another year in the CHL plus one in the AHL, ultimately it was his attitude and lack of maturity that was his biggest downfall.

 

McCann on the other hand did have a very good preseason and I think played his way onto the roster, but clearly he wasn't quite ready for a full season and also should have been given another year in the CHL to develop. 

 

I do wonder if Jake was kept up partially because management didn't like the optics of McCann making the team before Jake.

I think the narrative was that he wouldn't learn that much playing a powerforward game pushing around 16 year olds. *edit I forgot about the Hitmen handling him improperly too* I never liked the pick since I was hoping for Ehlers and he looked unmotivated when I saw him play twice against the Ice Caps. I had my fair share of brown bags thrown at me when people defended him "put him on with the Sedins, his value is in the playoffs, powerforwards take longer to develop"

 

I feel optics definitely played a part. McCann played great during the preseason and deserved staying up for 10-20 games. But how do you send down a player drafted 6th before the player drafted 24th in the same draft?

Edited July 7, 2023 by jatylo

[Goal:thecup]

6 minutes ago, jatylo said:

I think the narrative was that he wouldn't learn that much playing a powerforward game pushing around 16 year olds. *edit I forgot about the Hitmen handling him improperly too* I never liked the pick since I was hoping for Ehlers and he looked unmotivated when I saw him play twice against the Ice Caps. I had my fair share of brown bags thrown at me when people defended him "put him on with the Sedins, his value is in the playoffs, powerforwards take longer to develop"

 

I feel optics definitely played a part. McCann played great during the preseason and deserved staying up for 10-20 games. But how do you send down a player drafted 6th before the player drafted 24th in the same draft?

By earning the respect of the hockey world with sound management making the tough decisions correctly.

Once a player is drafted, management can ignore draft position, and insist on, "What have you done for us today?"

Jake would have received his comeuppance in a much more timely fashion if he was handled properly.

[CaptKirk888]

11 hours ago, viking mama said:

He appears to have matured far better, over-time, than “Tuna” did. I suspect one of the worst things possible for Jake’s development was NOT sending him out-of-town to play in Utica with other hungry & progressing Pros, away from his local possee. Then again, maybe that wouldn’t have been enough or mattered, regardless.
 

McCann seems to have developed some good sense between the ears & the wisdom to talk the talk, if not walk the walk, as a representative of his current NHL team. We shall see if he continues to haunt the Canucks as a pesky divisional player, for years to come. 
 

 

After his rookie season, he spent a full season in Utica……

[kanucks25]

1 hour ago, canuck73_3 said:

I think some patience could have been used in this case however he could also have matured since I don't think it's as one sided and issue as you're making it out to be. He has done a great job maturing since though.

He was a teenager, kids mature at different rates.

 

If a little bit of an attitude problem (if that was even the case) was enough for them to give up on him instead of trying to work through it with him, that's an indictment on the organization.

[Canucks Curse]

2 hours ago, jatylo said:

The unfortunate thing about Virtanen and McCann is that it was either NHL or CHL during their rookie year. A year or two finding their feet playing top 6 minutes in the AHL would have done wonders for them.

I believe this was Bennings idea and Willie D kept calling this a "get it done league" which it is and expressed disdain for having to develop Mcann and Virtanen so much at the Ahl level. I also believe they rushed Hutton who had a great first half year and could have developed into a top 4 D 

but whateves

[kanucks25]

8 hours ago, iinatcc said:

I think this interview is something I highlightend before McCann was a kid when he joined the Canucks and people here (either to make themselves feel better about the trade or for whatever reason) threw him under the bus. 

 

I always thought it was in poor taste for us to do this. 

The Benning slurp-fest was in full swing at this point. People supported all of his decisions vehemently no matter how obviously moronic they were.

 

[guntrix]

5 hours ago, iinatcc said:

I think my concern here is people were throwing McCann under the bus saying he had a bad attitude. It felt more like rumors to me and I thought it was unfair to do this to, at the time, a 19/20 year old

And the same time, people were fighting tooth and nail to excuse all of Virtanen’s shortcomings on the basis of him being the local boy and a “power forward”. There was zero consistency across the table. 
 

CDC was super toxic back then. 

[250Integra]

14 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

The Benning slurp-fest was in full swing at this point. People supported all of his decisions vehemently no matter how obviously moronic they were.

 

"It is what it is" - Jared McCann