Crabcakes Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 I think that every now and then the Guardian gets bored so he starts a crazy thread and spends a couple of days arguing with people about it. He's really just a troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerrDrFunk Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, Crabcakes said: I think that every now and then the Guardian gets bored so he starts a crazy thread and spends a couple of days arguing with people about it. He's really just a troll. I'm relatively certain if someone traced his IP address, it'd be coming from the 1040 studio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Industrious1 Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 The piling on/crowd mentality in this thread is pretty funny. Anyhow, I think there are more than a few of us that knew that management has had to step around and wait out some nasty contracts (the most egregious of which had NTC's attached to them). This was going to be a problem that was corrected over a number of seasons, not just one or two. We still have a couple to go and after that the sweeping changes that need to be made will most likely be enacted. The rebuild or retool or whatever has been happening incrementally up to this point but is slowly picking up steam as the latest trade deadline indicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabreFan1 Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 3 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said: A little but it is a review of management and their decisions and the ramifications of lack of insight. As far as the minuses, I am now getting attention from media, thanks. I didn't mean your posts and I never said anything about minuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 16 minutes ago, Industrious1 said: The piling on/crowd mentality in this thread is pretty funny. Anyhow, I think there are more than a few of us that knew that management has had to step around and wait out some nasty contracts (the most egregious of which had NTC's attached to them). This was going to be a problem that was corrected over a number of seasons, not just one or two. We still have a couple to go and after that the sweeping changes that need to be made will most likely be enacted. The rebuild or retool or whatever has been happening incrementally up to this point but is slowly picking up steam as the latest trade deadline indicated. 3 years for a rebuild to "pick up steam" is too much, regardless of what Benning inherited. We're still 3 years away - minimum - from properly competing, and 6 years (minimum) is too much to just start competing. Remember that we're still missing a few top-6 forwards and a few top-4 D, especially now that Tryamkin's future is unclear. And even if we're lucky enough to draft players to fill these roles, it'll still take them time to get their footing in the NHL. People need to stop with the notion that Benning walked into a barren wasteland in which all you can see is tumbleweed and NTCs. It's not true and it's a crappy, lazy excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, kanucks25 said: People need to stop with the notion that Benning walked into a barren wasteland in which all you can see is tumbleweed and NTCs. It's not true and it's a crappy, lazy excuse. Well that is sort of an extreme reaction - the other way IMHO. Fact is, pretty much most new GMs are coming into a team with warts (big enough to get the previous one fired). If everything was "peachy keen" Gillis would still be the GM of the team. Excluding GMs that "retired of their own free will". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Stoch Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 5 hours ago, Aircool said: Look. This thread is horrible. But the idea that Jim Benning has a bad plan isn't absurd. I think he drafts well, I just don't approve of the direction of this franchise. We should have started rebuilding from the day he got here. We missed out on truly elite talent in McDavid, Eichel, Matthews, Laine. For what? Winning mentality? I've said this 1000x I'll say it again. Bad players lose, good players win. Talent is EVERYTHING. We've targeted the wrong kinds of assets in trades. He's made some okay trades like Baertschi and Granlund, but they won't be a part of the first Canucks team to win a Stanley Cup, this team is no less than 10 years away from that hope. Jim Benning is beyond mediocre. Agreed. People like to blame Gillis for not beginning a rebuild immediately 1-2 years after we went to the finals but why would he start that early when the team was still performing well (at least during the reg season). Can't blame him for giving it a few more tries but the end of the 13/14 season when we finished 25th was a VERY clear signal to start a rebuild and I felt like even Gillis knew that and was going to begin right before he got fired. Unfortunately, Aqua brought in a new GM to force this team to squeak into the playoffs so the rebuild was delayed until pretty much this past trade deadline when JB finally gave up some key players for the future of this team, something we needed to start doing immediately after that Torts season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNucks1 Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 pretty sure guardian just fishes for negatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 32 minutes ago, kanucks25 said: 3 years for a rebuild to "pick up steam" is too much, regardless of what Benning inherited. We're still 3 years away - minimum - from properly competing, and 6 years (minimum) is too much to just start competing. Remember that we're still missing a few top-6 forwards and a few top-4 D, especially now that Tryamkin's future is unclear. And even if we're lucky enough to draft players to fill these roles, it'll still take them time to get their footing in the NHL. People need to stop with the notion that Benning walked into a barren wasteland in which all you can see is tumbleweed and NTCs. It's not true and it's a crappy, lazy excuse. Explain how that is not true. Go on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R35Godz1lla Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 2 hours ago, kanucks25 said: Probably one of the dumbest arguments I hear from time to time when it comes to sports. I don't play for the team either, so should I not have an interest in them? Ridiculous. Team management is a huge part of being a fan, and the salary cap is a huge part of team management. Oh don't be obtuse, it was a hyperbole to enforce the fact that he is worrying a bit much over an area that is as of now not really that much of an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 5 hours ago, Aircool said: Look. This thread is horrible. But the idea that Jim Benning has a bad plan isn't absurd. I think he drafts well, I just don't approve of the direction of this franchise. We should have started rebuilding from the day he got here. We missed out on truly elite talent in McDavid, Eichel, Matthews, Laine. For what? Winning mentality? I've said this 1000x I'll say it again. Bad players lose, good players win. Talent is EVERYTHING. We've targeted the wrong kinds of assets in trades. He's made some okay trades like Baertschi and Granlund, but they won't be a part of the first Canucks team to win a Stanley Cup, this team is no less than 10 years away from that hope. Jim Benning is beyond mediocre. I can get behind your sentiment but to say that talent is everything is dead wrong. Talent is half of it. Character is pretty damn important too. Having said that, the problem was the plan all along. It's not the people tasked with carrying it out. It's easy to say that because I bought in. Maybe I wanted it to work. Maybe I thought they could go along and not hit the bottom of the standings like they did. But if you look where they started from, with very little in the way of prospects, you had to know that any kind of real lasting success wouldn't come until Bo Horvat had come of age and had a solid support group. Is Bo really the guy you build a franchise around? The jury's out on that. Not to take anything away from Bo, he's got a ton of character. If Benning could make this team truly competitive in less that 6 years, I'd nominate him for 2nd Coming because he'd be able to walk on water. This much was known all along. I don't think a scorched earth strategy would have sped this rebuild up. The Leafs had prospects when they strarted 3 years ago. The Oilers had a boat load of 1st overall picks when they started. What the Canucks had was a completely different animal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 6 minutes ago, R35Godz1lla said: Oh don't be obtuse, it was a hyperbole to enforce the fact that he is worrying a bit much over an area that is as of now not really that much of an issue. The salary cap is always a major issue in a hard cap league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R35Godz1lla Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, kanucks25 said: The salary cap is always a major issue in a hard cap league. Nice Truism. I can do it to. "A rolling stone gathers no moss." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerrDrFunk Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, kanucks25 said: The salary cap is always a major issue in a hard cap league. Sometimes I wish the cap wasn't a thing in the NHL. Like him or not, Aqua-man is the type of owner to throw a crap ton of money around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hlinkas wrister Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 3 hours ago, theminister said: I understand completely. The uniqueness of the situation that JBTL stepped into is not lost on me. In fact, I think it took guts to accept the job. They didn't sign the contracts, that was MG's final move, but they had to deal with the reality of them and having few prospects in the 20-23yo range. The true focus was always going to be on the years immediately following the end of those deals but they chose not to come out and say that, which is understandable to me. I think intelligent people should have seen that writing on the wall. What they did instead was attempt to plug that gap as best they could, turn over the roster, and wait out NTC years they couldn't trade at the time (Sedins & Burr). Meanwhile they tried to add character guys to play during these intermittent years to round out a roster and provide some measure of stability rather than have all 1-2 year contract turnovers. It's been ugly because they inherited ugly. Too much truth in this post. Another gem of an argument is when people jump on JB and TL for not tearing it down in year 1. I mean, it makes perfect sense for a rookie GM and a rookie president to mandate a scorched earth rebuild doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 What do you expect when Ownership hires... Rookie NHL Club President Rookie NHL GM Rookie NHL Coach Is anyone surprised at the GONG SHOW the Vancouver Canucks have become...... ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptKirk888 Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 I think the guardian's mom sent him to bed, he hasn't posted for quite a while now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB5 Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Based on fallacies I'm seeing, I'm thinking this thread was written by the op while in the presence of the 4-20 event in Vancouver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 1 hour ago, hlinkas wrister said: Too much truth in this post. Another gem of an argument is when people jump on JB and TL for not tearing it down in year 1. I mean, it makes perfect sense for a rookie GM and a rookie president to mandate a scorched earth rebuild doesn't it? The dumbest part is the idea there was much else to do other than trade Matthias and Richardson who, being generous, may have returned 3rd round picks each. Those picks would be in the same timeline as Brisebois so likely not contributing to the roster now. Vrbata was an attempt to sign and mive a star player for futures but it didn't work out, much like Paranteau and others didn't work for other teams. The fact that two NTCs were moved before the puck hit the ice on JB's watch in Kesler and Garrison, and then two more the following year in Bieksa and Higgins, gets lost by posters like this. They want to acquire picks and then not trade for pieces to replace the players moved out, but also respect NTCs, and not sign FAs shows a level of cognitive dissonance which is astounding. Then they complain about the record which no other moves would have changed. The team's position is due to the complete lack of success in drafting, developing and acquisition of young players under MG for half a dozen years. That's all it boils down to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianRugby Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 7 hours ago, R35Godz1lla said: That train of thought implies Benning had the go ahead to rebuild when he took over. This is the first season that I can truly say I think he had the go ahead to let things collapse on purpose. He has gone on record starting the things he wont be doing and that's signing anymore high $$$ UFA's or trading picks or prospects for anything but more picks and prospects. Combined with Aqua's end of season tweet I can say with confidence this next off-season should be treated as year 1 for Benning. It doesn't matter if he had the go ahead or not, it was never his intention to rebuild because he saw talent here that nobody else did. He implied when he got hired that he loves the core and will turn the team around very quickly. The owners hired a guy that was as delusional as they were. You can treat next year as year 1. But in the real world, nobody is going to ignore the absolute cluster #_&*@ that Benning has created here so far. This team never tanked. Benning drove it into the ground through his ineptitude. The situation Vancouver finds itself in is not on the owners, it's 100% on Benning. He decided to sign Miller & Vrbata year one instead of tanking for McDavid. He's made the playoffs, not rebuilding, the mission for a team that keeps breaking it's own records for how awful it is. It's only when he's ran out of any other option did he decide that this burning tire fire isn't playoff bound anytime soon. The worst GM I've seen since Mike Milbury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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